Representation in media. Is it important?

[Com Fox]

I see this coming up whenever any new game, tv show or movie has human characters and talk about is it important to have characters represent different gender, race, sexual orientation etc.

I'm on the side that it's only important if the story is related to specific topics mentioned above or its trying to be culturally or historically significant. This is probably because I don't care so much if I can relate to a character more that if I find them interesting or entertaining, but it would be interesting to hear other sides of this topic.

Then there goes to topics about race swapping and gender swapping preexisting characters in either to make it more representive (or in some case like The Last Airbender, less so). I don't have a strong stance on this one but would like to know peoples thoughts on it that do have a strong stance

 

[Hayden]

As a straight white Australian male, one thing I’ve never felt is under-represented in media. When I was a kid looking for a role model, a person that looked just like me, who was off doing something amazing, was only ever a click away. Every super hero, sports player and TV star looked like they could of been my cousin… and If they can do it, so can I!

Representation in media isn’t about me, it’s about those kids (and adults) who don’t get to see someone like them doing great things. It’s a levelling out of an industry that has seriously under-represented a large portion of its audience for decades.

If an African American Spider-Man helps show a kid that he can grow up to be amazing, I’m all for it.

 

[Exorcet]

As a straight white Australian male, one thing I’ve never felt is under-represented in media. When I was a kid looking for a role model, a person that looked just like me, who was off doing something amazing, was only ever a click away. Every super hero, sports player and TV star looked like they could of been my cousin… and If they can do it, so can I!

I see this said a lot, but I've never really felt it. I can't recall ever caring about someone looking like me and it's never struck me as being important. I guess there were a handful of small events that were influenced by how closely I matched my role models, but they were more external than internal issues. I recall a class activity in grade school where my class had to speak to the other students about people they looked up to and had done research on. I wasn't able to find a book at the library about someone relevant to me of the same sex and when I revealed who my role model was, speaking in first person because the teachers asked us to, I vividly remember some of the confused expressions from other students. I wasn't bothered at all by the idea of pretending to be someone different than me, but apparently it was enough to cause others to double take. Getting back to the topic of representation, my experience makes me wonder if people place too much value on how people look. Could part of the problem be an expectation that a person should look up to someone that resembles them?

If an African American Spider-Man helps show a kid that he can grow up to be amazing, I’m all for it.

However, if this is the result, then it's hard to argue against. It is undeniable that people have made judgements based on appearance throughout history and up until today, so it's not hard to support the idea that it's a part of human nature.

 

[MatskiMonk]

As with Hayden, I'm an average straight white British male in my 40's, I've never not had representation, and when I was younger there wasn't much diversity in what I was watching, but even when there was it never really registered with me anyway - it just was what it was, Star Trek TOS and TNG perhaps being the best examples of that.

Of the role models or icons that I think influenced me when I was young, the top one was Red and Blue in colour, identified as both a Robot and a Lorry, and was presumably asexual... but aside from Optimus (who ultimately was depicted as a he, and was voiced (brilliantly) as a white male), it was Pete Venkman, Marty McFly, Luke Skywalker and James Bond (specifically Roger Moore in View to a Kill) - to me there was absolutely no conscious acknowledgement that they're all white males, they just were what they were... but it also seems like a painfully obvious correlation that would be wrong to discount - It's easy for me to think now "Of course I didn't like them just because they were straight white men", but how would I know? I never needed anything else, but maybe the two black kids at the school did, perhaps the kid that (looking back) clearly had gender identity issues did.

From that point of view, I would absolutely agree it's important, but I think the bigger issue is how, when and where it's achieved, and I think that's much more difficult when you're trying to introduce it to existing IP, then when you're starting something fresh.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I'm all for it provided that it's done well.

The Miles Morales Spidermans are awesome for a number of reasons, not least of which is the perspective they are leaning into. I can easily see his character being an inspiration for any number of inner-city kids.
Salvor Hardin in Foundation is terrible and I can't see her representing anyone well.

 

[Danoff]

I see this coming up whenever any new game, tv show or movie has human characters and talk about is it important to have characters represent different gender, race, sexual orientation etc.

I'm on the side that it's only important if the story is related to specific topics mentioned above or its trying to be culturally or historically significant. This is probably because I don't care so much if I can relate to a character more that if I find them interesting or entertaining, but it would be interesting to hear other sides of this topic.

Then there goes to topics about race swapping and gender swapping preexisting characters in either to make it more representive (or in some case like The Last Airbender, less so). I don't have a strong stance on this one but would like to know peoples thoughts on it that do have a strong stance

Getting folks used to seeing a diverse group of people reduces xenophobia and broadens what one considers to be their "tribe", hopefully to all of humanity. If you're insulated from seeing a particular group, or particular kinds of people, you're less likely to humanize them or interact with them in day-to-day life, which ultimately results in xenophobic politicians, laws, even wars.

I think if the representation is decidedly lopsided, such as presenting an office full of men in suits ordering female secretaries around, that kind of signal does get through to kids. I don't know that it's impossible to look past, or to have a role model that is different from you in some fashion, but the norm of "women do this, men do that" or "there are no black people in this picture" does get through and I think it is felt.

That being said, if you're trying to be historically accurate, be historically accurate.

 

[Exorcet]

I think if the representation is decidedly lopsided, such as presenting an office full of men in suits ordering female secretaries around, that kind of signal does get through to kids.

While I never really picked up on a lacking of representation in media, I did pick up on things like this. Not being specifically represented wasn't something that bothered me, but I did sometimes take issue with stereotypes.

 

[TexRex]

To me it's unimportant. It's not terribly likely that I'll be consuming that media anyway. If it's important to creators, that's fine enough.

Why is it important to some that groups not be represented? Or why is it problematic when groups are? How does that really affect you? Like that bitchfit over some game accommodating preferred pronouns. I only know about said game because of that, and I care so little about the game that I can't recall what it's called even as I have a very sharp memory.

 

[Com Fox]

Of the role models or icons that I think influenced me when I was young, the top one was Red and Blue in colour, identified as both a Robot and a Lorry, and was presumably asexual...

That is something interesting you bring up, as an Asexual myself. How would you handle Asexual representation specifically?

It seems a lot more trickier to handle it than Homosexuality or Bisexuality because you can easily have those spoken directly through the storytelling (like female charater having a girlfriend or female crush), Asexual is a lot harder to handle since it lacks those elements. Technically any character with zero romanctic plots or subplots can be considered Asexual which is a lot especially when you get to minor characters. I can only think of having characters having a crush on someone only for them to find out that someone Asexual so it was impossible to win.

Then there is also the element of applicability vs. intention. I rewatched the Ice Age pentology and during the 3rd movie Diego questions his place in the group as Manny is settling down with a partner and a kid and has an interest exploring his lonesome especially seeing Buck doing it. While I'm not a "relate" person when it comes to these things, I can compare this to the one struggle I did have as an Asexual originally in feeling like I had to feel the hole I would have if I wasn't Asexuality seeing everyone else getting relationship partners. This is definitely applicability on my part though and not actual intention of Asexual rep as by the 4th movie Diego gets a girlfriend.

So round it up to the initial question. How do you handle Asexual representation? Or is stuff like this fine to have story elements that is just applicable.

As a straight white Australian male, one thing I’ve never felt is under-represented in media. When I was a kid looking for a role model, a person that looked just like me, who was off doing something amazing, was only ever a click away. Every super hero, sports player and TV star looked like they could of been my cousin… and If they can do it, so can I!

Representation in media isn’t about me, it’s about those kids (and adults) who don’t get to see someone like them doing great things. It’s a levelling out of an industry that has seriously under-represented a large portion of its audience for decades.

If an African American Spider-Man helps show a kid that he can grow up to be amazing, I’m all for it.

More power to those who can feel more inspired from that. Everyone perceives characters different, some of them do by appearence, I think influences to me is more about writing than apperance

I think the biggest influence a character had on me was Troy Barnes from Community. I'm not Black myself but as a kid watching it off my brother. The episode where Troy is at his 21st and goes to a bar to start drinking rounds out his whole character of trying desperately to grow up because everyone around him was grown up (except Annie) and trying to be like them only to see how being a grown up doesn't exactly mean anything after seeing how all the characters who he looked up to as grown ups were acting extremely immature and destroying themselves woth alcohol. So he doesn't drink and just takes everyone home and decides to do things at his own pace.

It's how he was written and I think it struck a cord with me because I couldn't understand drinking once you are an adult and constantly being bullied at the start of high school for liking Pokémom and the episode and Troys arc convinced me to just stick to my guns and what I believe and not change them just to seem more grown up from the perception of everyone else.

 

[Joey D]

I've talked about the cross-racial casting in another thread before, and it only bothers me when an actual historical figure is changed. If it's a work of fiction, then whatever, although I'm fine with people complaining about it if the source material actually has accurate descriptions of the characters. The Witcher is a good example of this because the characters have detailed descriptions, yet when Netflix made the show, they ignored it and got offended when people didn't like it. When it comes to historical works, if people of a certain background want to be represented, then tell a story about them. Every culture on Earth has historical figures worthy of a story.

In terms of representation, I'm in favour of it if it makes sense and is not shoehorned in. It's painfully clear sometimes that certain forms of media are just out to checkboxes and just make a certain character gay, a minority, or whatever, just because it fills some quota. That seems like it would not only be insulting to the viewer but also insulting to the group the character is supposed to represent. Like don't make a character gay for the sake of being gay, actually make it a part of the story and write it so it doesn't look like it was slapped on there at the last minute. I feel like this is happening in video games more.

I also find that among some people, you can't criticize something if it's meant to represent a group. There's a kid's show on Netflix called Ridley Jones which is so inclusive of everything it feels insufferable because the characters need to make a point all the time to tell you they're different, but not really different or whatever. So much so that it distracts from the story and makes it a really poor cartoon (what can I say? I watch a ton of kid's shows). When I've talked about this (mostly on Reddit) you get people who think you are transphobic or homophobic because you don't like the media. I don't have a problem with nonbinary characters or same-sex couples, I have a problem with it being the main focus of the show while being written poorly. Cartoons like Young Jedi Adventures does it much better because one of the character has two moms and it's shown like an average family and they don't try to make a point of it, it's just a kid with two moms and it's shown like it's the more normal thing in the world.

 

[MatskiMonk]

How do you handle Asexual representation?

Generally, by not hanging plot points off implied sexual relationships, or implying that a characters motivation would be influenced by such. As an example, I'm sure John McClane would have wanted to stop Hans Gruber taking Nakatomi Plaza had he been there for a different reason, because he's a good guy, and Hans is the bad guy, irrespective of whether his ex-wife was involved - take Holly out of the plot and all still works, the problem is that would cut out relatable character development for many people.

If it were me writing a script, it would end up not being a great representation - personally I would focus on the increasing isolation and emotional disconnection as the protagonist found it increasingly hard to relate to the people around him living more typical lives... and I'd explore how that would end up.

 

[Daniel]

That is something interesting you bring up, as an Asexual myself. How would you handle Asexual representation specifically?

Todd from Bojack Horseman is an example of ace representation done well (in my opinion). Over the series he learns about, and comes to terms with, his asexuality, and it's an opportunity to show the audience an underrepresented identity without making it seem like a lecture.

 

[sw3g005]

Personal thoughts on this: I tend to care more about good character writing than anything else, so for me it's not very important. That being said, I can absolutely see how it can help minority groups see a part of themselves to relate to, in which case why not? Also, I 100% agree with @TexRex that some people make an unnecessarily huge deal out of this. Like why is it so important to you? I mean yeah, it's part of a bigger culture war and those people tend to be pretty nasty bigots to begin with but still. Relax. If it's not for you, accept and move on. It's that simple.

That is something interesting you bring up, as an Asexual myself. How would you handle Asexual representation specifically?

I would just write the asexual character as someone who isn't interested in a sexual relationship but wouldn't mind some snuggles or even kisses. It doesn't sound like much, but I think it would be enough for decent, human representation of asexual (or more specifically, aroace) people.

 

[wheelhp]

Yes, It kinda is important, but seeing how garish most of the representation is, totally radicalizes all the sides in the process. News and honest journalism is dead.

 

[MIE1992]

News and honest journalism is dead.

Where did this come from? It doesn't seem relevant to the rest of your post. Because otherwise, I agree that execution is important.

 

[wheelhp]

Where did this come from? It doesn't seem relevant to the rest of your post. Because otherwise, I agree that execution is important.

Dont believe everything you see on the telly

 

[Daniel]

Dont believe everything you see on the telly

Of course, nobody's actually gay on the television. It's all done to recruit more impressionable minds and mitigate repopulation.

 

[wheelhp]

Of course, nobody's actually gay on the television. It's all done to recruit more impressionable minds and mitigate repopulation.

How much Tv do you watch? way too much

 

[Daniel]

How much Tv do you watch? way too much

Enough that it turned me gay, unfortunately. :/

 

[TexRex]

Enough that it turned me gay, unfortunately. :/

 

[Daniel]

Don't get me started on shows on the internet.

Everybody's gay on the internet.

 

[TexRex]

Everybody's gay on the internet.