Road legal track car - a good idea?

[Tom]

Hello!

So for the last few weeks (since @Jimmy_B destroyed my spine with his Mazda) I've been thinking about getting some kind of road legal track car, mainly because I'm a bit of prat and think that it would be a good way of getting some experience on track, improving my skills, and obviously having some fun too.

The reason I'd obviously like it to be road legal is so I can drive it to/from circuits, thrash it around and then drive it home again. Simple. As long as I don't end up in the barrier of course.

My current road car is a Hyundai i30N and whilst I've thought about taking that out on track, a number of reasons make me sceptical, the primary one is the unnecessary wear it would put on components and of course the potential risk of being without a road car for a while.

So if I was to buy a road legal track car, where do you think I should look? I'm very keen on it being RWD and not to spend over £10k. I've been looking at something like an S2000 (a couple of which I've seen on eBay) as I've always been keen to see what a VTEC lump would be like on track. That said, I am open to options.

Looking forward to hearing from a few of you, and thanks very much in advance!

 

[SVX]

Do you have a daily driver? Will this be your only car? Will you be able to pour more money into it than you were hoping because something broke? What is your current track experience?

 

[Tom]

Do you have a daily driver? Will this be your only car? Will you be able to pour more money into it than you were hoping because something broke? What is your current track experience?

As above, my current road car is an i30N which will remain my daily driver.

Yes. Financially this shouldn’t be a problem. My current track experience includes various trackdays on a motorbike, as well as a weekend racing in a rallycross series back in September. See below:

 

[Roo]

*coughcoughturntheEtypeintoatrackmonster*

Or the incredibly obvious MX5. There's plenty around, parts will be relatively cheap, there's very little that hasn't already been done so there's plenty of advice around, and you can add power as you gain experience and feel more comfortable.

Mk3 MR2?

With anything you modify, though... fix it up and get it running right first, then get better brakes, then suspension/handling, and only then more power.

Edit: more obvious - Caterham 7. Although you may be happier in the MX5 on the road when it's raining.

 

[SVX]

I second an MX-5 - S2000s from experience aren't that great on track until you're really ragging them out, which is hard to do with limited experience. Due to the complexity of their design, they take some going to really hit their limits. I think that kinda defeats the point of buying something to learn in, as you're not learning as much as you should.

NB would be my suggestion. Still kinda modern, can get decent power with 6 spd and VVT. I believe NAs are getting expensive there too? Can spend the extra money that you'd spend on an S2000 for better tyres, brake fluid, bracing etc.

If you want to try FWD, I think you'd be hard to go wrong with any hot hatch. If you want to try VTEC, EP3, DC5 Type R, FN2? Maybe a DC2 non-Type R (we got them as SiRs, not sure if England has their equivalent, but might find an imported one). All really good chassis to learn in, lots of parts to buy and modify.

 

[homeforsummer]

As I couldn't talk you into the i30N on Twitter...

...my advice is to more or less listen to @SVX as those suggestions all seem good. Apart from the non-Type R DC2, which we never got in the UK and nobody bothered importing because we did get the proper Type R. Don't look past FWD as the right FWD car can be a riot on track, and will arguably give you less to think about while you're exploring your skills.

In general, I'd say something light. MX-5 (NB/NC best bang per buck), second/third-gen Suzuki Swift Sport, Ford Puma, EP3 Civic R, Clio 172/182/197/200 (with the Cup pack ideally), Twingo 133, Mk3 MR2 like @Roo suggested, last-gen Celica 190.

Clio 200 would be near the top of the list, personally. 95% as good as a DC2 Type R for a third the price. NC MX-5 would be my RWD choice as they're fairly brisk out of the box and can take a real beating, though a set of coilovers would be among the first purchases as the early cars had some handling quirks.

All are almost disposably-cheap, parts for all of them grow on trees, and all are mechanically pretty solid. Strip some weight out, stick some decent brake pads/fluid in them, a set of decent tyres, and go. Light weight is good because you'll go through tyres and brakes much less quickly. And having good brakes that don't fade is better than anything else on track - power, handling, whatever. The best car in the world is no good if the brake pedal goes long after two laps.

 

[Tom]

*coughcoughturntheEtypeintoatrackmonster*

Or the incredibly obvious MX5. There's plenty around, parts will be relatively cheap, there's very little that hasn't already been done so there's plenty of advice around, and you can add power as you gain experience and feel more comfortable.

Mk3 MR2?

With anything you modify, though... fix it up and get it running right first, then get better brakes, then suspension/handling, and only then more power.

Edit: more obvious - Caterham 7. Although you may be happier in the MX5 on the road when it's raining.

MX-5 is definitely a good shout. I actually found this one whilst browsing earlier, but as I want to use it properly on the road I'd put a hard-top on it or similar. Price seems good and it would be good starting point with its spec: https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1127735

I second an MX-5 - S2000s from experience aren't that great on track until you're really ragging them out, which is hard to do with limited experience. Due to the complexity of their design, they take some going to really hit their limits. I think that kinda defeats the point of buying something to learn in, as you're not learning as much as you should.

NB would be my suggestion. Still kinda modern, can get decent power with 6 spd and VVT. I believe NAs are getting expensive there too? Can spend the extra money that you'd spend on an S2000 for better tyres, brake fluid, bracing etc.

If you want to try FWD, I think you'd be hard to go wrong with any hot hatch. If you want to try VTEC, EP3, DC5 Type R, FN2? Maybe a DC2 non-Type R (we got them as SiRs, not sure if England has their equivalent, but might find an imported one). All really good chassis to learn in, lots of parts to buy and modify.

I won't rule out FWD entirely, but every car I've owned has been FWD and I'm keen to drive and learn more about RWD, and I think doing that on a circuit would be the best solution personally. If 944's weren't increasing in value so much they'd definitely be an option.

As I couldn't talk you into the i30N on Twitter...

...my advice is to more or less listen to @SVX as those suggestions all seem good. Apart from the non-Type R DC2, which we never got in the UK and nobody bothered importing because we did get the proper Type R. Don't look past FWD as the right FWD car can be a riot on track, and will arguably give you less to think about while you're exploring your skills.

In general, I'd say something light. MX-5 (NB/NC best bang per buck), second/third-gen Suzuki Swift Sport, Ford Puma, EP3 Civic R, Clio 172/182/197/200 (with the Cup pack ideally), Twingo 133, Mk3 MR2 like @Roo suggested, last-gen Celica 190.

Clio 200 would be near the top of the list, personally. 95% as good as a DC2 Type R for a third the price. NC MX-5 would be my RWD choice as they're fairly brisk out of the box and can take a real beating, though a set of coilovers would be among the first purchases as the early cars had some handling quirks.

All are almost disposably-cheap, parts for all of them grow on trees, and all are mechanically pretty solid. Strip some weight out, stick some decent brake pads/fluid in them, a set of decent tyres, and go. Light weight is good because you'll go through tyres and brakes much less quickly. And having good brakes that don't fade is better than anything else on track - power, handling, whatever. The best car in the world is no good if the brake pedal goes long after two laps.

Thanks for the advice here, Antony. I just honestly don't think I could risk the i30 on-track, especially given how I'll need a daily driver just in case.

I think time constraints would force me into buying a ready built car as opposed to building one, although of course there's always the risk of the unknown when it comes to that.

 

[Roo]

Had you considered tracking the i30 and buying another daily driver? Or is it more that the value of the Hyundai means you want a cheap-ish track toy?

Also you may or may not know you can check the MOT history of a vehicle online for free. That orange one you linked to hasn't had an MOT for a year.

 

[homeforsummer]

Also you may or may not know you can check the MOT history of a vehicle online for free. That orange one you linked to hasn't had an MOT for a year.

Looking at it, although it's registered, I'd imagine it's trailered about the place.

Looks nicely prepared, but also quite weird that someone would go to that much effort for a track car alone. Price-wise that car isn't dissimilar to the race series cars that pop up for sale.

I think if I was going for a "road-legal" track car I'd probably not buy one with a full cage and stripped out and all that stuff anyway. Unless you're driving everywhere with a helmet, a full cage is a bit iffy on the road ("let's put lots of solid metal bars around the driver's unprotected head"), and simply getting to and from circuits in a car like that would be a bit unpleasant unless the weather is perfect.

With regards to time constraints, trackday season is a little while away yet. I reckon you could buy something and do basic prep before everything kicks off next year, and have the advantage of not working with someone else's bodges...

 

[Famine]

Yes.

I've been looking at something like an S2000 (a couple of which I've seen on eBay) as I've always been keen to see what a VTEC lump would be like on track.

No.

There's myriad reasons why MX-5s are very popular choices as track day cars. They start with the fact that they're cheap, plentiful, easy to fix, and have an entire universe of parts available for them to the point that almost anything you want to do to one will not be original any more (I have an idea that is, but I need a few more clients to do it ), but they're also slow (to start with), light, and predictable. By the time you've lost grip you've had three weeks of warning and you've got another two months to get it back again. S2000s are not any of that - and they're at point where actually you'd be pretty wise to buy one and store it for a couple of years.

Your best bet is any FWD hatchback, or an MX-5, with everything stripped out of it. Hardly original, but there's a reason for that.

Anything that you can bounce through the infield of a track without having to give any more than point three of a **** about is good, because... you probably will bounce it though the infield of a track at some point and dealing with track day insurers to fix it is going to be zero percent more fun than dealing with regular car insurers. Then go faster with the next one - and there's always someone looking to buy your previous one because they think a road-legal track day car sounds like a good idea, and they're looking for a stripped-out MX-5 or FWD hatchback.

Put lots of stickers on it.

 

[Joey D]

When I had my race car it was road legal and we actually drove it to events, swapped the tires, and then just went about racing for the afternoon, then drove it home. More than once it bit us, like when the flywheel had a puncture (no really) and the hood came off, but for the most part it wasn't too bad. The ride was horrid, it was unspeakably loud, and the entire interior smells like death but it was still pretty cool to drive around in a race car. I even drove it to work a few times which was always a bit of fun.

I wouldn't want to daily drive a road-legal race car though, that sounds awful.

 

[Tom]

Had you considered tracking the i30 and buying another daily driver? Or is it more that the value of the Hyundai means you want a cheap-ish track toy?

Also you may or may not know you can check the MOT history of a vehicle online for free. That orange one you linked to hasn't had an MOT for a year.

It's definitely more of the value that would put me off. They're still worth about £20k second hand and the thought of sending that into the barrier sends shivers down my spine.

Thanks for that, I knew about it but hadn't really looked into it. I think the advert said something about having 12 months MOT, which would be good.

Yes.

No.

There's myriad reasons why MX-5s are very popular choices as track day cars. They start with the fact that they're cheap, plentiful, easy to fix, and have an entire universe of parts available for them to the point that almost anything you want to do to one will not be original any more (I have an idea that is, but I need a few more clients to do it ), but they're also slow (to start with), light, and predictable. By the time you've lost grip you've had three weeks of warning and you've got another two months to get it back again. S2000s are not any of that - and they're at point where actually you'd be pretty wise to buy one and store it for a couple of years.

Your best bet is any FWD hatchback, or an MX-5, with everything stripped out of it. Hardly original, but there's a reason for that.

Anything that you can bounce through the infield of a track without having to give any more than point three of a **** about is good, because... you probably will bounce it though the infield of a track at some point and dealing with track day insurers to fix it is going to be zero percent more fun than dealing with regular car insurers. Then go faster with the next one - and there's always someone looking to buy your previous one because they think a road-legal track day car sounds like a good idea, and they're looking for a stripped-out MX-5 or FWD hatchback.

Put lots of stickers on it.

Thanks for this. I think given what people have said it makes sense to get something with a bit less power and learn, as you've said. I still want RWD though, I don't think I'm going to be able to shake that from my mind.

Appreciate the advice though, it's certainly given me food for thought.

 

[eiriksmil]

Having a track car you will drive to and from track and not having to tow is good fun but it's a compromise. It's just a matter of time before it ends up as a full-on track car. Ask @Punknoodle or any other who have gradually turned his car into a track car. Going down that route is a one-way street.

Having said that I do think it's wise to start out with a road legal track car so you can drive it to events and take it to some good driving roads from time to time as well. But then it's more of a street car you can take to the track, than a full on track car. I'd start with that and gradually turn it more into a dedicated track car if you feel like it at that point.

A couple of things.

As @homeforsummer pointed out, if you are driving the car on the road you would seriously want to avoid a caged car without a helmet.

In some countries that is not even road legal (like here, the GT3 RS is TÜV road legal with the half cage, OEM cage extension is not street legal). Will that pass MoT?

Mods making the engine management/check engine light stay on may come, will that pass MoT? Are you open to wrench before MoT to make it street legal or is it easier to trailer the car?

Driving a car with no carpets, no insulation, loud exhaust etc is great, but I am happy you are keeping a daily driver as it's fun at the track on the weekend, still fun to work on Monday morning but by Tuesday you are fed up

Personally I'd stretch the budget just a little bit and go for a E36 M3. But for starters it's what @Famine said, you might want to look into an MX-5 first.

 

[Tom]

Having a track car you will drive to and from track and not having to tow is good fun but it's a compromise. It's just a matter of time before it ends up as a full-on track car. Ask @Punknoodle or any other who have gradually turned his car into a track car. Going down that route is a one-way street.

Having said that I do think it's wise to start out with a road legal track car so you can drive it to events and take it to some good driving roads from time to time as well. But then it's more of a street car you can take to the track, than a full on track car. I'd start with that and gradually turn it more into a dedicated track car if you feel like it at that point.

A couple of things.

As @homeforsummer pointed out, if you are driving the car on the road you would seriously want to avoid a caged car without a helmet.

In some countries that is not even road legal (like here, the GT3 RS is TÜV road legal with the half cage, OEM cage extension is not street legal). Will that pass MoT?

Mods making the engine management/check engine light stay on may come, will that pass MoT? Are you open to wrench before MoT to make it street legal or is it easier to trailer the car?

Driving a car with no carpets, no insulation, loud exhaust etc is great, but I am happy you are keeping a daily driver as it's fun at the track on the weekend, still fun to work on Monday morning but by Tuesday you are fed up

Personally I'd stretch the budget just a little bit and go for a E36 M3. But for starters it's what @Famine said, you might want to look into an MX-5 first.

You're completely right in that at some point it probably will turn into a full track car, but until I've got a garage to store it in then it'll need to be road-going.

What I would like do if I bought that MX-5 is take the roll cage out for the time being and stick a hard top on it as it'll need to be water tight. If I did decide to convert it to a full on track racer then I'd reverse that process. As the advert says, it will come with 12 months MOT so presumably it would pass with the cage attached as is!