Ronalds Reviews, Praianos' Dino @ 450pp SH

Discussion in 'GT6 Tuning' started by Ronald6, Dec 21, 2013.

  1. Ronald6


    United States
    Hello, welcome to my tune review thread.

    Just like in GT5 I plan to pick one tune every so often and do an extended review, including the base model and powered up versions.

    The second post will include link to my reviews.

    I test using a DFGT
    FFB 7
    No aids, ABS 1.
    Tyre Wear/Fuel Consumption Normal
    Grip Real

    My test tracks will be Trial Mountain, Autumn Ring, Cape Ring and possibly Apricot Hill and Grand Valley Speedway.
    All testing will be done online in a F.I.T.T. room.

    I will post my fastest lap time for each track but note that this time is not usually intended to be a 'hot lap.' I test with tyre wear on and run continuously without restarting before moving on to the next track. This makes hot lapping difficult. And most of my time is spent trying to feel the car, so my aim is not for a perfect lap.


    Reviews that I do for shootouts will be copied to this thread. These reviews are usually shorter and hot lap intensive.


    I will rarely give tuning advice. As a driver I will describe how the car handles, feels, and my thoughts about it. It's up to the reader and tuners to understand the 'whys.'


    My review style is constently evolving. If you have any questions, comments, or suggestions please let me know.


    Please visit my other thread: the Test Drivers and Tuners Dictionary


    And as a courtesy to all us phone users, if you quote someone, please snip it down to the relevant text. Thank you.


    O'Sensai, Aikido and the Harmony of Nature, "The action appropriate to function in harmony with nature occurs spontaniously."

    Chesty Puller, "We arn't retreating. We're attacking in a different direction."

    Frank Herbert, "It's not that power corrupts, nor that absolute power corrupts absolutely. Power is magnetic to the corruptable."
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  2. Ronald6


    United States
  3. XDesperado67

    XDesperado67 Premium

    United States
    Good to see you back in business Ron.:tup::tup:
    Can't wait to see your reviews.:gtpflag:
  4. Ronald6


    United States
    It was hard to decide which tune to review as my first for GT6. Then I saw MotorCityHami's tune for the Subaru Impreza WRX Sti '07. This was one of my favorite tunes in GT5. It was so easy to control it felt like mind control. I still think of Clint Eastwood in the movie Firefox, "You must think in Russian!"
    But would this modern varient live up the its historic counterpart. Let's see...

    Base Model:
    Sports Hard Tyres, 461pp, HP:298, Wt:1470 54/46, 1994cc, Tq:312ft-lb, Drive Train: 4WD, Length: 4415in, Ht:1475, Wd: 1795, P/W ratio: 4.93 kg/HP
    As in GT5 I tried out the fully stock version of the car to get a starting point for the tune. It's hard to know if the tuner improved the car if I haven't driven the original.
    I took the car to my home track of Trial Mountain first. No reason to get used to a new track, that would introduce too many errors. The first thing I noticed was how much I could push the car without it biting my head off. Even when the front outside tyre is pushed too far, that just allows the other three tyres to get closer to their potential. I found that if was faster, by far, to push the focal tyre far past the point I would with almost any other car. Less grip on that one tyre ment more grip for the other three.
    Corner entry was easy, breaking was easy to judge and easy to recover from if taken too far. Only when I overcooked both front tyres did I see any adverse effect on entry. As usual I had to wait for one of the tyres to cool down enough to get effective grip from it again.
    Mid corner was easy. If I set up properly from entry then it was simple to ride the throttle through the corner.
    Corner exit was easy. Once I got the car pointed in the right direction after entry it was simple to just throttle up and correct my line with the wheel.
    Because this car took extreme imputs fairly calmly it was easy to stay on line. It was only slightly harder to stay on that line while finding a balance between pushing the tyres too hard and not enough.
    Quick chicane movements can use some improvement. When recovering from one corner into a reverse corner the body roll is a bit slow and the tyres don't respond quickly enough to the directional changes. Easy enough to control through changing my driving style.
    There is no "Tuned Up" version of this car, Hami didn't add any upgrades, he just lowered the pp through use of the limiter. I won't be testing the lowered pp stock model.

    Fully Tuned Model:
    Sports Hard Tyres, 450pp, HP:314, Wt:1470, Tq:327, P/W ratio: 4.68kg/HP
    Not quite mind control yet, but not too far either.
    The first thing I noticed (besides the neutered engine and powerband) was the much shorter stopping distance. On many corners I didn't use the brake at all where it was called for before. My braking distance from high speed was about half.
    It is now also easier to judge when the balance between too much for the outside tyre and too little for the inside tyre. Both front tyres heat almost evenly on entry, even when trail braking. And I do much more trail braking now.
    The improvements to corner entry (braking distance and tyre heat balance) make mid corner and corner exit even easier than before. I can apply the throttle much earlier than before (even accounting for the loss of power).
    Chicanes are easier, the car responds to left-right-left movements much quicker, and without loss of stability.
    There is much less understeer on corner exit. Rather than point the car straight down the track at exit and understeering to the outside under throttle, I now aim the car in the direction of it's inertia.

    Lap times:
    Trial Mtn:
    Base: 1:38.231
    Full: 1:40.631
    Autumn Ring:
    Base: 1:26.710
    Full: 1:28.524
    Cape Ring:
    Base: 2:59.917
    Full: 2:58.779

    Ok, given that the "Tuned" version is 16pp under the "base" tune these times are very good, IMHO. As I get more laps done in other Base and Tuned cars they will take on more perspective.
    It's unfortunate that the original is so powerful and lowering it to 450pp kill so much of the powerband. I'd love to see what this tune could do with a less limited engine.

    Great tune, Hami, keep'em comin'!
  5. Ronald6


    United States
    Ferrari Dino 246 GT '71, Stock

    Sports Hard Tyres
    191hp @ 7,400
    165tq @ 5,500
    Wt: 1080kg
    L: 166.7
    W: 66.9
    H: 44.7
    Displacement: 2,419cc
    P/W Ratio: 5.65

    Note 1: Calibrating your pedals before the race is important.
    2: Braking zones are long but forgiving if you're willing to disturb the car.
    3: The soft suspension means that smooth inputs are a must, but recovery is often a jerk to straighten out.
    4: Once I let the front over-rotate past the Point of No Return there is no recovery.
    5: A fun car for lapping or TT's, I would not recommend the stock car for racing.
    6: The stock transmission is a five gear but you only get to use 4 gears on most tracks. The fifth gear is a very long economical gear. The powerband is flat for the last 2kRPMs and has a gentle slope up to it, which makes throttle control easier than other MRs.
    7: The tyres don't heat up equally, which makes cornering interesting. Sometimes I could do faster through a corner to the left than I could to the right because my right/rear tyre was good and orange and the left was still baby blue.

    Trial Mountain: 1:41.758
    Autumn Ring: 1:28.936
    Cape Ring: 3:07.536
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2013
  6. Ronald6


    United States
    Ferrari Dino 246 GT '71, Modded

    I added the Twin Plate Clutch and Engine Tuning 3. A quick oil change and some Engine Limiting and I'm near where Praiano's numbers are (449pp, 249hp).

    The engine limiting has no visual effect on the powerband.
    I'm keeping the stock suspension for this test.
    (Anyone else notice that both the Odometer and Trip-meter work in the cockpit view? Cool.)

    Trial Mountain: 1:39.698
    Don't push till the tyres heat up. The extra power really disturbs the balance of the car.
    A much better time is possible but the weak suspension and LSD make power application difficult. I try to brake early and enter under throttle, giving as much as the car can accept until it' straight. This is very difficult to do consistently. When done right the rear tyres get nice and golden without overheating.

    Autumn Ring: 1:27.824
    A lot easier that I thought it would be. A few laps and I learned a lot about throttle steering. As long as I keep calm even the chicane section is smooth. It's when I get impatient and try to beat my times that bad things happen. Pushing the car to the limit without ever going over seems to be my best style. If I get too impatient, even when I am able to recover, I lose too much time.

    Cape Ring: 3:02.412
    (Anyone else notice that the maps are now in perspective?)
    Difficult but fun.
    Hard to keep a consistent line through long corners.

    Racing Hard Suspension:
    Trial Mountain: 1:39.698
    Steering was easier but throttle control wasn't. If I ever over cooked the outside rear tyre it was very hard to recover. The back would snap out, if I caught that the heat difference between rear tyres would make throttling out of the fish tail difficult and braking would cause the back to pass the front. Still got better times when I was consistent.

    Autumn Ring: 1: 28.004
    Not enough lean. A balance between this and stock would be nice.
    Again, throttle control and lack of recovery makes this hard to control. This might be easier to race, but the stock is a better TTer.

    Cape Ring: 3:00.935
    The speed through the consistent corners, like the loop, are significantly improved, but at a loss of margin for error.
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2013
  7. Ronald6


    United States
    Ferrari Dino 246 GT '71, Praiano

    Trial Mountain: 1:38.271
    Wow. When I go into a corner with the weight already back under throttle, especially in the long continuous corners, the car feels perfectly balanced (not just the weight) and rotation is easy to control with either throttle to steering (I still don't recommend braking in a corner).
    It's hard to get the tyres to heat up on Trial Mtn. Only the long continuous corners help.
    Going in too hot or exiting too hot on short corners disturbs the car more than it's worth.
    Understeer! Pre-Entry! keep these two words in mind every time you enter a corner. There is a massive amount of understeer on corner entry, but it is easily countered by aiming inside the apex (sometime by several feet). After a few laps it will be natural.

    Autumn Ring: 1:26.336
    Still no tyre heat, just baby blues.
    Pre-Entry is still needed, but the chicane section wasn't hampered by it (like I thought it would be).
    Tight rotation after mid-corner after trail braking into the corner is difficult. Actually, any tight rotation is hard to initiate. Perhaps I'm not initiating the rotation correctly.

    Cape Ring: 2:59.563
    Several errors on the hot lap, there is seconds of time left here.
    Only the loop helped heat up the tyres.
    In fact: when I was finally able to get some heat in my rear tyre it seemed to only disturb the balance and cause the rears to reach red (slip) even sooner. Heated tyres didn't help with grip, they just had less room to accept heat. Kinda weird. I'm going to blame it on the games funky camber.

    Final impressions: far and above the stock car or even the modded tune with racing hard suspension. I can't imagine a car I would rather learn to drive MR in rather than this car. The Toyota MR2 (non spyder) was my favorite MR, but this car blows it away. Even stock the car has a good feel to the weight transfers, and doesn't feel as rear heavy as other MRs.
    This tune is great for TTing, and learning to drive a MR but I will need to wait till later to find out how well it does on 'the Hill.' A car's response to other drivers is completely different than TTing.
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2013
    praiano63 likes this.
  8. Ronald6


    United States
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2013