Rose colored glasses

[Centurion_cz]

Hi GT Planet. Before I start this, I'd like to thank everyone of the GTP community for this great website. Not many gaming franchises have such a well organized and helpful community.

I think time has come to summarize the last few years of Gran Turismo games and look back at what went wrong. If you think nothing went wrong, then it's your opinion and I respect it, but I can't see how you could possibly defend it.

When I first played Gran Turismo 6, the overwhelming emotion I felt was that of grief. Sure, I don't take games that seriously - it wasn't comparable to the death of a family member, but it was noticeable. After first few laps, I was convinced of one thing - this is the greatest depression Polyphony and GT was ever in. This is like the 2008 of Gran Turismo games. Let me explain why.

Racing games, more than any other genre, are about the experience of being in the game - immersion. You have to feel like you are in a powerful (or less powerful) vehicle on a racetrack. I once argued with my friend about this and my argument was, that if someone created a perfect racing game, all it would need would be one car and one track. You wouldn't need 600 or a 1000 cars and tracks. One car (for example a BMW M3), one track (for example Spa) and you'd have fun for centuries. Every lap would be different, everytime a new and special situation would arise.

Gran Turismo fails on almost all counts when it comes to immersion. I have to start with the obvious - the sound engine. Very few if any cars in the game sound anything like their real life counterparts. The sound that the game generates isn't even generic car sound - it's more like a mixer or some other electric kitchen device. Why? I honestly don't know. Forza Motorsport 4 has some of the best car sounds I've heard in a video game, but even games from small independent studios like Assetto Corsa have better sounds than one of the most well known racing game franchises in the world. It's not just the engine sound either. It's the other sounds too. In GT6 what you can hear is the sound of the engine, the sound of the tyres squeeking (also terrible) and the sound of the curbs. In Assetto Corsa, there's about 50 more sounds at a given second of gameplay. You can hear the air hitting the windshield, you can hear the materials of the car extending and collapsing when you drive over a bump, you can hear the clicking sound of the paddle-shifter and several other sounds. It feels right.

Then there's some natural limitations of the GT series that go from one game to the other. For some reason, every car has an invisible field around it, so that they never quite touch. Maybe it's the camera placement, but it just feels wrong. In the interior view, you can't turn the steering wheel more that 90 degrees in each direction. They were probably too lazy to make the arm and hand animation for that.

The greatest controversy in my opinion lies in the content of the game. The game still carries content from 2001-5 (GT3 and GT4). Why, you might ask. Some people claim that it's a bonus, but is it really? Before GT6 came along, I was prepared to accept that explanation, but now it's clear that it's not a bonus at all. There's no longer any distinction between premium and standard (as if the quality of these cars were the industry standard in 2010...) and the car dealership screen has been reworked to make it harder to distinguish between the two. Is it still a bonus now that you can't even tell which is which in menus? I can reassure you, that you can tell the difference on the track. The standard cars are massive eyesores. They pretty much ruin the game. Even in GT5 where maybe just maybe they were a bonus, they were unneccessary. I won't even mention the HD remakes of GT4 circuits (f.ex. Cote'd'Azur). What really happened was that Kaz was afraid he won't be able to create enough content for people who really only care about this one thing (not sure why) and so he panicked and lifted content from the older games. Why exactly is this content in GT6 again I don't know. Seeing how GT5 prologue is from 2007 (and all of its cars appear in GT5), I don't know what on Earth were the people in PD doing for the next 7 years before the release of GT6 and why we still have to put up with content that's more than 10 years old. I think it's fair to say that the current/last generation of consoles didn't really have a full Gran Turismo game.

You know what I'm fearing? That it will be the same with the next generation. I'm fearing that Kaz will again lift premium cars (hopefully not the standard cars again) and some tracks from GT5 and GT6 and include them in GT7. It's as if he was too lazy or too much of a scrooge to make brand new models - as if he couldn't ever really throw anything in the bin. Have we seen any models from Forza 4 in Forza 5? No. Turn 10 made 400 HD cars in 2 years (2011 - 2013) including Forzavista mode, PD made 400 in 3 years (2010-2013) and for an older console (less detail). What took them so long?

What makes me mad is when I see modes like that stupid Moon Landing area in GT6. It's very nice and clearly a lot of effort was put into it, but why? Is the rest of the game so incredibly good that they can now focus on fun* modes? No. Why were they wasting their time on something like this when they were facing the greatest challenge since the inception of GT series - to release a game for a console at the very end of its life cycle? Forza now has Auto/Forzavista, where you can hear interesting facts about each car, get in, rev the engine, etc. It's great because it simulates the feeling of ownership - you have the car in your garage and walk around it, taking in its beauty. Why was this not included in GT6? Because the dev team was busy making the new Red Bull X2014? What's with the stupid paint chip system? Why can't we have a normal car painting mode like in Forza? (granted the Forza 5 version of it sucks)

I could spend the rest of this (or any other) day ranting about GT6, but it's probably pointless. I just wanted to remind you, that you/we are a very strong community and that our opinion matters. We shouldn't spare GT6 the criticism just because we have fond memories of its predecessors. We need to make sure that people in PD understand what they did wrong. Gran Turismo needs a complete rework - everything needs to be thrown out and made new from scratch. Everything. If one string of code from GT6 makes it to GT7, it will be a huge disappointment.

I remember when I was a 9 year old kid (2000) and my dad accidentally bought me the same issue of Playstation magazine again. We went to the store in central Prague where he bought it to return it and inside I saw a huge pillar with TVs and Playstation consoles all around it. People were playing some kind of a racing game and immediately I recognized what it was - GT2. I picked up the controller, selected a red BMW 328i (it was the Arcade disc) and raced it around High Speed ring. I was sold. The graphics were cutting edge for its time, so were the sounds. Car selection was great too. The new Gran Turismo's have none of this magic and it's starting to occur to me. Maybe Gran Turismo was never really good. Maybe it was just my childhood excitement that made me love the series. If it wasn't for the last 2 games in the series, I'd probably never realize this.


*it's not really fun

 

[HaylRayzor]

I just wanted to remind you, that you/we are a very strong community and that our opinion matters.

Not so much.

 

[X30 Driv3r]

Very well written. I am quite of your opinion.

 

[Boone]

If one string of code from GT6 makes it to GT7, it will be a huge disappointment.

I just wanted to ask if the PS4(AMD X86-64 Jaguar Processor) works on a different set of technology than the PS3(cell processor) therefore: any previous games will be emulated and non-transferrable to PS4 without cloud emulation, correct? The GT PS3 games are coded for a cell processor. All that code will be incompatible with the AMD X86-64 Jaguar Processor, correct? Please, someone confirm or deny this. I need to know whether or not PS3 content will appear on a PS4 game.

 

[X30 Driv3r]

Why would not that work? NFS Rivals there are also for the PS3 and PS4, and I do not think there are completely different codes.

 

[Squanto]

I just wanted to ask if the PS4(AMD X86-64 Jaguar Processor) works on a different set of technology than the PS3(cell processor) therefore: any previous games will be emulated and non-transferrable to PS4 without cloud emulation, correct? The GT PS3 games are coded for a cell processor. All that code will be incompatible with the AMD X86-64 Jaguar Processor, correct? Please, someone confirm or deny this. I need to know whether or not PS3 content will appear on a PS4 game.

Here you are: http://us.playstation.com/playstationnow/

and : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Now

.... but it won't happen (GT6 port to PS4) ... they probably have GT7 in progress for PS4 for about 2 or 3 years ... separate from GT6

 

[RykketyStykks]

I politefully disagree with almost everything you have said and I must defend PD on this one.

Even in real life if you had one car, bombing it around on one track you would soon want more; to go somewhere different, to see what a more powerful car is like etc.

Why would every lap be different? A good driver is a consistent driver. I happen to think the game is very immersive and the physics of the driving are amazing. Indeed, I often simply go on free run in one my Jag XK's to simply enjoy driving in locations all over the world, through any weather and even at night.

Driving on GT6 is fantastic.

People keep complaining about the sound, but I fear that GT is actually a victim of its own design. Not only does it have play back recordings but it has to mathematically extrapolate when the car is tuned too with a miriad of options for each and every car. Some of the upgrades do sound a bit odd, and may or may not be realistic, but I'd advise to stick to cars "as stock" and sound worries will probably disappear.

Why are you worried about the steering not going more than 90 degrees? It seems a trivial point to make, as when exactly would you need that? And the invisible field? Sorry, I didn't realise crashing was integral to the game.

Slamming standard cars seems unnecessary. If you can't tell in the Dealership, they clearly aren't too much of an eyesore are they? You critisize them for keeping content from old games, and yet other fans critisize because tracks and cars from previous incarnations have disappeared. Besides, what is the point of letting all that good work go to waste?

Why is it bad for PD to build on previous work? GT7 will of course include everything from GT6 and lots more.

There is a lot of complaining over GT6 and I think most of problem stems from everyone on here played GT5 to death and GT6 did not have enough new and exciting features. But what can they add?

At its fundamental, GT is about simulating driving a car around a track as realistically as possible for something that is ultimately virtual. GT6 blows GT5 and all prvious GT's out of the water in that regard.

I do not mean to "have a go" but I feel GT6 and PD take a lot of unfair criticism.

 

[eran0004]

I once argued with my friend about this and my argument was, that if someone created a perfect racing game, all it would need would be one car and one track.

Good luck with that.

it's more like a mixer or some other electric kitchen device.

No it's not.

They were probably too lazy to make the arm and hand animation for that.

Because every other driving game has shuffling animations? Or are all driving game developers lazy?
And really, is THAT something you'd want them to spend time on, wheel animations?

What really happened was that Kaz was afraid he won't be able to create enough content for people who really only care about this one thing (not sure why) and so he panicked and lifted content from the older games.

Lol, no. What really happened is that Polyphony Digital created a game called GTPSP, and they thought it would be nice to have garage transfer from that game to GT5. And then in GT6, almost all cars from GT5 was kept. Was it a great decision? The opinions are divided. But what you describe is all made up, and not "what really happened".

It's as if he was too lazy or too much of a scrooge to make brand new models

That's just nonsense. Why would HE be lazy when it's not even him that makes the models? And since when does a company make more profit by NOT letting the employees do any work? If you're full time hired you get full time pay.

Forza now has Auto/Forzavista, where you can hear interesting facts about each car, get in, rev the engine, etc.

Well, then go and play Forza. If you think the moon car is a waste of time and resources, why would an autovista feature be so much better? On the contrary it would require a lot of time and resources, because the models needs to be so much more detailed and have doors that open, modeled engines, etc.

We shouldn't spare GT6 the criticism just because we have fond memories of its predecessors.

Clearly you're not. You're even making things up so you can criticize more.

 

[Voodoovaj]

but I can't see how you could possibly defend it.

I'll give you this, there are fewer features (photo mode, GT Auto, etc) but the driving is an definite improvement..you won't ever sway me there.

(for example a BMW M3), one track (for example Spa) and you'd have fun for centuries. Every lap would be different, everytime a new and special situation would arise.

I'm with your friend on this one. You'd get bored pretty quick. What you're referring to is reality, which is essentially impossible for the next decade or more until we can implant gaming hardware into people's heads and replicate reality to 100%.

I have to start with the obvious - the sound engine.

What you are actually referring to is the sound design and sound creation. The sound engine works fine. It does everything a sound engine should do and maybe more. The rest of the items on your list are based on memory constraints. A PC game has far more RAM for sounds than a PS3. Now, personally, I think that some sounds could be better, but I'm also not the guy putting the sound together nor do I want to be.

Then there's some natural limitations of the GT series that go from one game to the other. For some reason, every car has an invisible field around it, so that they never quite touch.

Yes, it's a collision mesh...it's how 3D models collide.

In the interior view, you can't turn the steering wheel more that 90 degrees in each direction. They were probably too lazy to make the arm and hand animation for that.

No, that is actually proper feedback implementation. If they did it the way you were suggesting, the visual feedback would be horrendous and you'd hate it.

The greatest controversy in my opinion lies in the content of the game. The game still carries content from 2001-5 (GT3 and GT4). Why, you might ask. Some people claim that it's a bonus, but is it really? Before GT6 came along, I was prepared to accept that explanation, but now it's clear that it's not a bonus at all. There's no longer any distinction between premium and standard (as if the quality of these cars were the industry standard in 2010...) and the car dealership screen has been reworked to make it harder to distinguish between the two. Is it still a bonus now that you can't even tell which is which in menus? I can reassure you, that you can tell the difference on the track. The standard cars are massive eyesores. They pretty much ruin the game. Even in GT5 where maybe just maybe they were a bonus, they were unneccessary. I won't even mention the HD remakes of GT4 circuits (f.ex. Cote'd'Azur). What really happened was that Kaz was afraid he won't be able to create enough content for people who really only care about this one thing (not sure why) and so he panicked and lifted content from the older games. Why exactly is this content in GT6 again I don't know. Seeing how GT5 prologue is from 2007 (and all of its cars appear in GT5), I don't know what on Earth were the people in PD doing for the next 7 years before the release of GT6 and why we still have to put up with content that's more than 10 years old. I think it's fair to say that the current/last generation of consoles didn't really have a full Gran Turismo game.

*Rolling eyes*... I'm seriously thinking that Microsoft is paying people in eastern Europe to post this awful load of lies.

So, flat out, I would prefer to have all the cars in the game that we have now, then to have it scaled back to only the cars with the highest detail models.

As for the "premium" cars, they have interiors (which are pretty, but I don't use them) and they have VERY high res models for use in the gallery view....ONLY. On track, they are maybe a little higher poly count than the other cars and only at the nearest LOD (so your view from outside the car). The standards do have some low res textures, I'll give you that, but not everyone cares or notices. I'll still take them over not having them at all.

If you want fewer cars than the previous iteration for the sake of aesthetics, then Forza is the game for you

You know what I'm fearing?

That GT7 will cause a massive uptake of PS4, thereby causing Microsoft to lose this round of the console war?

If one string of code from GT6 makes it to GT7, it will be a huge disappointment.

Already covered many times...the physics and rendering engine will carry over. Go buy some vodka and start drinking now.

The new Gran Turismo's have none of this magic and it's starting to occur to me. Maybe Gran Turismo was never really good. Maybe it was just my childhood excitement that made me love the series. If it wasn't for the last 2 games in the series, I'd probably never realize this.

When I was 5 years old, I drove a game that was just a movie with flashing lights if you didn't turn. I thought it was AWESOME, but now...LAME. I thought staying up past midnight was awesome...now I get tired.

Look up "The law of diminishing returns" while you are waiting for your check from Microsoft for this wonderfully entertaining post

 

[Exorcet]

Gran Turismo fails on almost all counts when it comes to immersion. I have to start with the obvious - the sound engine. Very few if any cars in the game sound anything like their real life counterparts. The sound that the game generates isn't even generic car sound - it's more like a mixer or some other electric kitchen device. Why? I honestly don't know. Forza Motorsport 4 has some of the best car sounds I've heard in a video game, but even games from small independent studios like Assetto Corsa have better sounds than one of the most well known racing game franchises in the world. It's not just the engine sound either. It's the other sounds too. In GT6 what you can hear is the sound of the engine, the sound of the tyres squeeking (also terrible) and the sound of the curbs. In Assetto Corsa, there's about 50 more sounds at a given second of gameplay. You can hear the air hitting the windshield, you can hear the materials of the car extending and collapsing when you drive over a bump, you can hear the clicking sound of the paddle-shifter and several other sounds. It feels right.

The sound doesn't bother me so much. I have Forza 4 myself, I guess the sounds are better, but it doesn't make much difference to me.

The greatest controversy in my opinion lies in the content of the game. The game still carries content from 2001-5 (GT3 and GT4). Why, you might ask. Some people claim that it's a bonus, but is it really? Before GT6 came along, I was prepared to accept that explanation, but now it's clear that it's not a bonus at all. There's no longer any distinction between premium and standard (as if the quality of these cars were the industry standard in 2010...) and the car dealership screen has been reworked to make it harder to distinguish between the two. Is it still a bonus now that you can't even tell which is which in menus? I can reassure you, that you can tell the difference on the track. The standard cars are massive eyesores. They pretty much ruin the game. Even in GT5 where maybe just maybe they were a bonus, they were unneccessary. I won't even mention the HD remakes of GT4 circuits (f.ex. Cote'd'Azur). What really happened was that Kaz was afraid he won't be able to create enough content for people who really only care about this one thing (not sure why) and so he panicked and lifted content from the older games. Why exactly is this content in GT6 again I don't know. Seeing how GT5 prologue is from 2007 (and all of its cars appear in GT5), I don't know what on Earth were the people in PD doing for the next 7 years before the release of GT6 and why we still have to put up with content that's more than 10 years old. I think it's fair to say that the current/last generation of consoles didn't really have a full Gran Turismo game.

I think the standard cars do add content. I have less issues with them than the premiums because the premiums are said to be bottlenecking the car adding process. For me they have a negative impact on the game, the standards don't. I don't own GT6, but if I did I would be very glad that the game doesn't tell you which is which since that lead to annoying separation in GT5, though I guess they could inform you without forcing you to make a mess of your garage.

You know what I'm fearing? That it will be the same with the next generation. I'm fearing that Kaz will again lift premium cars (hopefully not the standard cars again) and some tracks from GT5 and GT6 and include them in GT7. It's as if he was too lazy or too much of a scrooge to make brand new models - as if he couldn't ever really throw anything in the bin. Have we seen any models from Forza 4 in Forza 5? No. Turn 10 made 400 HD cars in 2 years (2011 - 2013) including Forzavista mode, PD made 400 in 3 years (2010-2013) and for an older console (less detail). What took them so long?

I agree that GT is at risk for stagnating, since it has already stagnated. It's not the only game to do so, but it's a particularly bad example of a game going no where or even going backwards. What needs to happen is that the devs need to appreciate the desire of options to allow for a wider variety of things to do and to take advantage of the creative ability of the fanbase.

At the moment, this isn't going to happen. If it ever will, I don't know.

What makes me mad is when I see modes like that stupid Moon Landing area in GT6. It's very nice and clearly a lot of effort was put into it, but why? Is the rest of the game so incredibly good that they can now focus on fun* modes? No. Why were they wasting their time on something like this when they were facing the greatest challenge since the inception of GT series - to release a game for a console at the very end of its life cycle? Forza now has Auto/Forzavista, where you can hear interesting facts about each car, get in, rev the engine, etc. It's great because it simulates the feeling of ownership - you have the car in your garage and walk around it, taking in its beauty. Why was this not included in GT6? Because the dev team was busy making the new Red Bull X2014? What's with the stupid paint chip system? Why can't we have a normal car painting mode like in Forza? (granted the Forza 5 version of it sucks)

Between Forzavista, Moon driving, and the X1 cars I would prefer GT's content. I'd actually take the moon driving alone over Forzavista. For me, that feature is completely useless.

I could spend the rest of this (or any other) day ranting about GT6, but it's probably pointless. I just wanted to remind you, that you/we are a very strong community and that our opinion matters. We shouldn't spare GT6 the criticism just because we have fond memories of its predecessors. We need to make sure that people in PD understand what they did wrong. Gran Turismo needs a complete rework - everything needs to be thrown out and made new from scratch. Everything. If one string of code from GT6 makes it to GT7, it will be a huge disappointment.

Criticism is always good and should be welcome. I agree that if people don't like something, they should talk about it. On the other hand though people need to be less controlling. Don't ask for something that will make someone else lose out. Most of the time you can satisfy both parties, but one group always goes on about how it "should" be done without any good reason to back it up. There is no "should", just give people the ability to play how they want.

 

[Madertus]

Forza now has Auto/Forzavista, where you can hear interesting facts about each car, get in, rev the engine, etc. It's great because it simulates the feeling of ownership - you have the car in your garage and walk around it, taking in its beauty.

I understand it's pretty impressive and a lot of people like it but it's the single most useless thing I've ever seen in racing games. Yes, same goes for GT5's museum for example.

The feeling of ownership... give me a break, how can a game develop the feeling of ownership for a virtual car?

 

[photonrider]

Speak for yourself, Madertus. I collect them.

So I can drive them here and there now and then. Virtually.

 

[fredyellowone]

Great post, and BTW : "Gran Turismo fails on almost all counts when it comes to immersion." Should be instead : "Gran Turismo fails on almost all counts when it comes to almost everything."

*Rolling eyes*... I'm seriously thinking that Microsoft is paying people in eastern Europe to post this awful load of lies.

That GT7 will cause a massive uptake of PS4, thereby causing Microsoft to lose this round of the console war?

Go buy some vodka and start drinking now.

Look up "The law of diminishing returns" while you are waiting for your check from Microsoft for this wonderfully entertaining post

Quite a fanboy, no doubt. And a good dose of bad faith, an even bigger dose of douche-baggary, and to be up par your "A.I. can't be better" post, not so much rationality and common sense.

Really, a great mix.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Slamming standard cars seems unnecessary. If you can't tell in the Dealership, they clearly aren't too much of an eyesore are they? You critisize them for keeping content from old games, and yet other fans critisize because tracks and cars from previous incarnations have disappeared. Besides, what is the point of letting all that good work go to waste?

Why is it bad for PD to build on previous work? GT7 will of course include everything from GT6 and lots more.

I don't understand why wanting consistent graphics is such a bad thing these days. Some of us don't like standard cars because they hurt the overall presentation of the game. When I play a new game, I don't want old content from a console generation ago. Quality over quantity.

A lot of those car models are a decade old and some even date back to GT3. They were good back then and they've already fulfilled their purpose, but their age shows now. I don't see how anyone can say standard cars aren't noticeable, unless they're not playing on a HDTV.

Standards are already in GT5 and GT6, so there's nothing we can do except not drive them. But on the PS4 and beyond, I find it hard to believe PD will get away with using car models from not one, but two console generations ago. I know for a fact that I will not be buying GT7 if we see this on the PS4:

I hope PD has a trick up their sleeve if they plan on using standard cars like the ones above on a next-gen game.

 

[lazywolfe]

.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Quite a fanboy, no doubt. And a good dose of bad faith, an even bigger dose of douche-baggary, and to be up par your "A.I. can't be better" post, not so much rationality and common sense.

Really, a great mix.

Oh c'mon.

I'm just up to speed with expectations. I never expected anything better than we got. It's actually completely rational.

What I expected was an evolution of GT5 with features delivered month to month rather than all at once upon release. I expected all the cars to be pretty much the same as GT5, with a few additions.

I never expected GT6 to be a revolutionary game. It's an experiment. It follows the release pattern set by GT2, and GT4.

GT7 will be super cool...GT8 will be lame.

 

[fredyellowone]

Oh c'mon.

I'm just up to speed with expectations. I never expected anything better than we got. It's actually completely rational.

What I expected was an evolution of GT5 with features delivered month to month rather than all at once upon release. I expected all the cars to be pretty much the same as GT5, with a few additions.

I never expected GT6 to be a revolutionary game. It's an experiment. It follows the release pattern set by GT2, and GT4.

GT7 will be super cool...GT8 will be lame.

GT2 and GT4 never been "experiments". They've been awesome games with a high degree of innovation.
GT5 and GT6 on the other hand, are big unkept promises. And furthermore, I'm not a beta tester.

 

[Voodoovaj]

GT2 and GT4 never been "experiments". They've been awesome games with a high degree of innovation.
GT5 and GT6 on the other hand, are big unkept promises. And furthermore, I'm not a beta tester.

GT2 was so bad they recalled the game and sent out new copies. The AI drove into walls...like they would just turn straight into walls. GT4 was ok, but not on the same level of impact as 3.

No, you should not be a beta tester. Agreed. They should have taken the full three years since 5 to make 6 and make it spectacular. They should have delivered all the features on day 1. Agreed.


However - There is this revolution in gaming that is messing it up for us. That's Free to play. Check this link, because the suits at Sony are...

http://thinkgaming.com/app-sales-data/2/candy-crush-saga/

With the following that GT has, I would totally risk this version to see if the whole series could go free to play.

 

[Centurion_cz]

I'm with your friend on this one. You'd get bored pretty quick. What you're referring to is reality, which is essentially impossible for the next decade or more until we can implant gaming hardware into people's heads and replicate reality to 100%.

What you are actually referring to is the sound design and sound creation. The sound engine works fine. It does everything a sound engine should do and maybe more. The rest of the items on your list are based on memory constraints. A PC game has far more RAM for sounds than a PS3. Now, personally, I think that some sounds could be better, but I'm also not the guy putting the sound together nor do I want to be.

Believe it or not, someone once called Gran Turismo a "Real Driving Simulator". To simulate something, you need to create an environment that's as close to reality as possible. If you want to play GT as a game, then sure - you may like the amount of content including horrendeously ugly Standard cars and unneccessary modes. But if you are someone who's into "simulation", you probably expect the individual experience (one car, one track) to be as good as possible. Just watch these three videos and let them sink in. Maybe you're not a phonetic person like me, but I think that even a deaf person could tell the difference. GT6 sounds way outdated.

Reality:
AC:
GT6:

It's not just the sound either. The fact that the car slides all around the track isn't always realistic. I haven't driven a 458 in real life though, so I'll leave it at that.

So, flat out, I would prefer to have all the cars in the game that we have now, then to have it scaled back to only the cars with the highest detail models.

As for the "premium" cars, they have interiors (which are pretty, but I don't use them) and they have VERY high res models for use in the gallery view....ONLY. On track, they are maybe a little higher poly count than the other cars and only at the nearest LOD (so your view from outside the car). The standards do have some low res textures, I'll give you that, but not everyone cares or notices. I'll still take them over not having them at all.

See I'd rather not see those cars in the game at all. The point of a bonus is to add to the game. These cars are just leftovers - if I wanted to drive them, I'd drive them in GT4, where they belong with their graphics and don't feel so underdetailed. Don't pretend you don't watch replays or don't use photo-mode or external camera from time to time. If you don't care about the quality of the models then I guess you don't need the models at all. You can use the bumper cam and no models have to be made for you at all. Interesting approach.

*Rolling eyes*... I'm seriously thinking that Microsoft is paying people in eastern Europe to post this awful load of lies.

¨

Go buy some vodka and start drinking now.

Do you have some beef with Eastern Europeans (I'm not even sure if I'd classify my country as that anymore)? Also, Czechs drink beer, not vodka, but then you would know that, because you come across as a smart person whose posts don't include any unneccessary ad-hominem and are totally to the point. Good job on that.

If they did it the way you were suggesting, the visual feedback would be horrendous

Some games already have it. I guess it should at least be an option.

In general you're not disputing my points but rather saying that this is the way it should be. Honestly, I guess we have a different idea of a "Real racing simulator".

 

[Centurion_cz]

Besides, what is the point of letting all that good work go to waste?

Why is it bad for PD to build on previous work? GT7 will of course include everything from GT6 and lots more.

You do realize that those of us who have been with GT since its beginning have paid for some of these models (GT3, GT4P, GT4, GT5, GT6) up to five times? Every artist needs to know when it's time to throw it all away and start again on a tabula rasa. Constantly recycling old stuff is just wrong. Just look at the excellent images by Master Weasel. Do you think that this is acceptable for a 2013 game? People from Turn 10 could've used some of/all the models from Forza 4 in Forza 5 as well (and bear in mind those were relatively high detail models with interiors and some of them were only 2 years old!), but they chose not to, simply because they wanted a truly next-gen game. Of course people complained about the lack of content in F5 (and I kind of agree with them on this), but at least the game is fully next-gen. There was not a single fully current gen GT game. That's the worrying thing.

There is a lot of complaining over GT6 and I think most of problem stems from everyone on here played GT5 to death and GT6 did not have enough new and exciting features. But what can they add?

Certainly not moon missions. I'd like to see something like Autovista in GT6. It's so simple and yet charming. You get to learn something about the cars, sit in the interior, walk around them. It's silly when you think about the fact that the only way to see the super detailed interior of premium cars in GT5 is a glitch in Photomode...

I do not mean to "have a go" but I feel GT6 and PD take a lot of unfair criticism.

If that's what you believe, then fine. It's your opinion.

 

[Centurion_cz]

No it's not.

Just watch the videos above.

Because every other driving game has shuffling animations? Or are all driving game developers lazy?
And really, is THAT something you'd want them to spend time on, wheel animations?

Yes. I would. The steering wheel is what you control the car with. Yes, when you use your own physical steering wheel (which I do quite often) it's not that necessary, but when you don't, the steering wheel animations really look weird. Also, I'm not talking about shuffling. Just play Assetto Corsa for a few minutes and you'll understand.

Lol, no. What really happened is that Polyphony Digital created a game called GTPSP, and they thought it would be nice to have garage transfer from that game to GT5. And then in GT6, almost all cars from GT5 was kept. Was it a great decision? The opinions are divided. But what you describe is all made up, and not "what really happened".

So he included all these cars in the game because of a handheld spinoff? If so, it's even weirder than what I described above. I'd say keep the games separate.

That's just nonsense. Why would HE be lazy when it's not even him that makes the models? And since when does a company make more profit by NOT letting the employees do any work? If you're full time hired you get full time pay.

I don't think you even get the point of what I said. I never said that Kaz makes the models himself. I said that he concentrated (with his team, not himself) on easier tasks than reworking the sound engine or making more HD cars. Another possibility is that they made some shockingly bad decisions, thinking that people won't mind the standard models and sounds (which I still consider the greatest weakness of the series, but unless you played other racing games and don't know what these cars sound like in real life, you may not have noticed).

Well, then go and play Forza. If you think the moon car is a waste of time and resources, why would an autovista feature be so much better? On the contrary it would require a lot of time and resources, because the models needs to be so much more detailed and have doors that open, modeled engines, etc.

I do, but I'm really sad it's not GT6 that I'm playing. I really used to like the series and I never liked the "hip Xbox generation" ******** that went along with every Forza game. "Check out this dangerous Camino Viejo circuit where you can fall down (not really)" etc. Forza was always "everyone's racing game", trying to appeal to broader audiences. I owned all the Forza games and always felt that GT was more elitist and somewhat more true to what a racing simulator should be. It felt more serious. Forza 3 I think was a turning point. It was a game with a lot of content but also a lot of options for more experienced drivers. It had its flaws and so did Forza 4, but the dedication to cars and everything automotive was there. You could see it. Greenawalt copied Kaz in this respect, depicting himself as a car enthusiast and it finally started showing. I don't even know what's left of GT6 now. Just watch Forza 5's opening video on youtube. Turn 10 are serious about this and they don't live on a cloud like PD.

I think we both have a completely different idea of what GT should be about. That's fine. I don't know how old you are, but I take it you're younger than me and probably don't really care that much about non-eventful modes like Autovista, which I like, because they let me inspect the cars and their different aerodynamic sollutions etc.. I can truly feel like I'm about to drive them. It's better than to just appear in the car at 150km/h with the "START" sound and the main straight ahead of you. It's more personal. Call me a gearhead/petrolhead. I don't mind it.

Also, I'd like to point out that Forza 5 is nowhere near as good as Assetto Corsa. Too bad it's still a beta.

Clearly you're not. You're even making things up so you can criticize more.

Doesn't matter why standard cars are in the game. Maybe I was wrong about that. The fact is they're there and that's what I criticize. Not the way they made it to the game.

 

[eran0004]

@Centurion_cz

I don't know how old you are, but I take it you're younger than me and probably don't really care that much about non-eventful modes like Autovista, which I like, because they let me inspect the cars and their different aerodynamic sollutions etc.. I can truly feel like I'm about to drive them. It's better than to just appear in the car at 150km/h with the "START" sound and the main straight ahead of you. It's more personal. Call me a gearhead/petrolhead. I don't mind it.

Funny, judging by your post I would have guessed you were a lot younger than me.

I have nothing against Autovista, but I don't think that's what Gran Turismo is lacking and I'm pretty sure most people would agree with me on that.

Doesn't matter why standard cars are in the game. Maybe I was wrong about that. The fact is they're there and that's what I criticize. Not the way they made to the game.

At this point you should probably go back and re-read your post, because the process behind the game (not that you actually know anything about it) is a pretty big focus in your text.

 

[Centurion_cz]

Funny, judging by your post I would have guessed you were a lot younger than me.

I'm 23, turning 24 this year.

At this point you should probably go back and re-read your post, because the process behind the game (not that you actually know anything about it) is a pretty big focus in your text.

I do mention it and I think that's what happened, but I obviously don't know. I'm not from Polyphony Digital, so I can only guess. Even if it's presented as a 100% certain fact, it's still a theory. I don't think you're right about it having anything to do with GTPSP (and if it does it's really weird), but again - I don't know. Key thing is I don't like standard cars being in the game and I think the opening post makes it clear as to why.

 

[JimbobMarley65]

Believe it or not, someone once called Gran Turismo a "Real Driving Simulator". To simulate something, you need to create an environment that's as close to reality as possible. If you want to play GT as a game, then sure - you may like the amount of content including horrendeously ugly Standard cars and unneccessary modes. But if you are someone who's into "simulation", you probably expect the individual experience (one car, one track) to be as good as possible. Just watch these three videos and let them sink in. Maybe you're not a phonetic person like me, but I think that even a deaf person could tell the difference. GT6 sound way outdated.

Reality:
AC:
GT6:

It's not just the sound either. The fact that the car slides all around the track isn't always realistic. I haven't driven a 458 in real life though, so I'll leave it at that.





See I'd rather not see those cars in the game at all. The point of a bonus is to add to the game. These cars are just leftovers - if I wanted to drive them, I'd drive them in GT4, where they belong with their graphics and don't feel so underdetailed. Don't pretend you don't watch replays or don't use photo-mode or external camera from time to time. If you don't care about the quality of the models then I guess you don't need the models at all. You can use the bumper cam and no models have to be made for you at all. Interesting approach.

¨

Do you have some beef with Eastern Europeans (I'm not even sure if I'd classify my country as that anymore)? Also, Czechs drink beer, not vodka, but then you would know that, because you come across as a smart person whose posts don't include any unneccessary ad-hominem and are totally to the point. Good job on that.



Some games already have it. I guess it should at least be an option.

In general you're not disputing my points but rather saying that this is the way it should be. Honestly, I guess we have a different idea of a "Real racing simulator".

Wow I knew the sound in Gt was poor but I didn't realise just how bad it really is until I listened to the comparisons . It's making me want to turn the race BGM back on. Epic fail PD.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Wow I knew the sound in Gt was poor but I didn't realise just how bad it really is until I listened to the comparisons . It's making me want to turn the race BGM back on. Epic fail PD.

Do yourself a favour and don't go searching youtube for PCars, Race Room Experience, Assetto Corsa etc. They are a symphony of sound compared to PD's clock radio.

 

[MLRSparco]

IMO GT6 is actually a step back from GT5,so many features that GT5 had aren't even in GT6 hahahaha what's up with that?Not to mention all the new content and monthly DLC we were supposed to get on day one.The sounds in this game are hideous,it's the first thing anybody who plays rFactor,Forza,Assetto Corsa,LFS,Dirt,Grid,NFS etc will mention when you ask them why they don't own a GT game or have even played it,there are literally people who create sounds for cars on games like rFactor who don't go to a dyno or even outside to get there audio and it will sound 10x better than GT ever will.

I can't wait to leave this community of delusional people that can't even admit to issues of the game that not only people in the community see but even people who don't even play the game see.As messed up as that sounds it's the truth,the faster we realize these things the faster we can band together and make this game better,I don't want to hate this game and i'd rather not abandon one of my favorite racing companies but they're not leaving me much of a choice.

 

[JimbobMarley65]

Do yourself a favour and don't go searching youtube for PCars, Race Room Experience, Assetto Corsa etc. They are a symphony of sound compared to PD's clock radio.

You do realise that I am going to HAVE to do that now lol. I will tell you what is annoying is the fact that in the early days PD boasted of replicating the sound of each and every engine in the game .

 

[Centurion_cz]

You do realise that I am going to HAVE to do that now lol. I will tell you what is annoying is the fact that in the early days PD boasted of replicating the sound of each and every engine in the game .

I don't want to bash GT5/6 more than is necessary, but I think some people here (not necessarily you) really need to play some other games to see just how far behind GT is. Again, I used to be a huge fan of the series and even kind of accepted GT5 but GT6 was just too much. I own all the games in the series including Prologues and I think it's fair to say that there was very little development since 2007. I hope the next gen version will be a completely new game, but I have to repeat my plea from the opening post - I do think people from PD read some of the posts here - we need to be critical of GT6 and not defend it mindlessly just because we liked the previous games.