Salute Your Shorts: Hummer HX/H4 to Target Jeep Wrangler

[YSSMAN]

Surprisingly, they actually seem like good ideas...

The 2008 Hummer H2 has been revealed ahead of its scheduled New York debut. The new Hummer offers many interior and exterior changes alongside engine improvements. The updated model will also bring increased towing capacity, improved safety, and better efficiency..

The 2008 H2 will offer a 6.2L V8 engine at the top of the line. The all-aluminum V8 boosts the power of the model up to 20 percent versus the 2007 model year, now up to 393 hp. The transmission will be a Hydra-Matic six-speed automatic. Also packed into the engine are optimization methods including variable valve timing and a tall overdrive gear.

Interior improvements include aluminum trim and second row climate and audio controls. The update is an attempt to improve the much criticized H2 interior by improving overall comfort and luxury with redesigned features including a new instrument panel and improved seats.

The exterior has been slightly refined for the 2008 model year. A new enlarged lower grille allows for better air movement along with widened gaps on the main grille. The lower bumper has also been slightly modified, now painted silver.

To match the performance upgrades are several safety improvements. A new electronic stability control system provides rollover mitigation technology. In addition to stability control, a new traction control system has been added. Other new safety features include roof rail head curtain side impact airbags for all rows, tire pressure monitoring, and safety belt pretension technology.

Although the changes are subtle on the exterior, they look good. I like the Hummer detail on the bumper, something you may or may not notice in some cases. And hey, it looks like GM is learning how to do interiors right... The updated one in the H2 looks brilliant, and matched with the new V8 and the 6-speed automatic, it seems like a better alternative than it once was... I mean, its still a GMT800, and that sucks, but hey, you do what you can...

The 2008 Humber H3 Alpha has been revealed boasting engine improvements for the performance-oriented Hummer. Topping the H3 line is the new 2008 Alpha powered by V8 5.3 liter engine, providing 295 hp and 317 lb.-ft. of torque. The new Alpha also will feature a new drivetrain to match the engine alongside several exterior and interior refinements.

The new model's power increase allows the H3 Alpha to reach 60 mph in eight seconds. A four-speed automatic transmission will be utilized in the 2008 H3 Alpha. Also, it can tow more weight than the previous model, topping out at 6,000 lbs. The H3 Alpha will be available for sale this summer.

Minor updates, but somewhat noticeable. I'm liking the V8 option, as the current I5s just blow ass. But it does make you wonder why they didn't go with the Atlas I6, given that they made pretty much the same amount of power (291 versus 295)...

...Hey, maybe there is hope for a Colorado SS with the 5.3L V8...

 

[Joey D]

The new interior on the H2 looks...good? Wow I can't believe I just said that. There is hope GM will make a decent interior, I like what I've seen from them so far, especially with the Aura and other Saturn models. Guess they saw people actually care.

GM needs to quit putting 5.3 in things and just put the freakin 5.7 in it instead. That was the biggest thing I had against the SSr, it didn't have the proper V8 in it.

The reason the I6 didn't get put in the Colorado is because it didn't fit correctly with in the dimensions of the truck. Also since it was going to be a world truck they needed to take that into account as well. A V8 Colorado would be nice, they could at least give that truck love like they failed to do with the S-10.

 

[skip0110]

I'm sure the Colorado SS is coming eventually, GM always likes to do something nice for every body style at least one year.

So the 6.2 V8 has cam phasing, and the 3.9 V6 has it as well, are those the only OHV GM engines with it so far?

 

[YSSMAN]

GM currently offers VVT on:

- Almost all the I4 models (if I recall correctly)
- The 3.5L 224 BHP V6, 3.9L 240 BHP V6, and the 3.6L DOHC 252-300 BHP V6
- The 6.2L 380-403 BHP V8, the 4.4L S/C Northstar V8

...I think thats it...

And are we prepared for a wild rumor? I hear GM is considering dropping the LS2 in favor of the L92 (6.2L V8) found in the Cadillac Escalade...

Odd? Yes...

 

[Casio]

Is that the gear selector that looks like the throttle control of a jet? That's the single most awesome thing I've ever seen.

 

[YSSMAN]

Yeah, and they're pretty cool to operate. When I drove the H2, it reminded me of a boat. I wanted to pull it back and fourth to let the crewmen down in the engine room to crank the speed up...

 

[Tornado]

So Hummer finally did what they should have done with the H3 when it debuted 2 years ago? Whoop de fricken' doo. And no Atlas? The H3 can go screw. Again.
And, as much as I love the 4L60E, the Hummer H2 is now 6000% better just because it has the 6-speed manual; regardless of any power gains.

 

[1X83Z]

the Hummer H2 is now 6000% better just because it has the 6-speed manual; regardless of any power gains.

I wonder if they'll sell a single one.

 

[Pupik]

I wonder if they'll sell a single one.

It's quite difficult to posture and shift gears manually at the same time, so my guess is no.

 

[3-Wheel Drive]

It's quite difficult to posture and shift gears manually at the same time, so my guess is no.

You also cannot talk on a cell phone while driving stick, so definitely no.

 

[Danoff]

You also cannot talk on a cell phone while driving stick, so definitely no.

Well... you can... it's just hard.

 

[YSSMAN]

You also cannot talk on a cell phone while driving stick, so definitely no.

...It isn't safe, but I do it on a regular basis. And if I really want to, there is always the speaker phone, or the mic that is included with it...

 

[YSSMAN]

An "Uh-Oh" moment for the Jeep folks?

HUMMER's general manager, Martin Walsh, has put all the speculation about the long-rumored HUMMER H4 to rest, telling those assembled at a dealer conference that the truck will be shown in concept form in January at NAIAS as the HUMMER HX. The HX will become the H4, which is set to arrive in 2010 as a 2011 model. After giving up the details, Walsh then showed the dealers the actual HX concept. According to descriptions given to the website Hummer Guy, the 2-door, 4-seat HX rides on a shorter wheelbase and is not as tall as its stablemeates, yet is easily identifiable as a HUMMER, thanks to familial styling cues like the signature grille and glass-to-bodywork ratio. The doors are completely removable, as are the fender flares and roof panels. In addition, the H4 will have an optional slantback that evokes the original Humvee. One person who spoke to Hummer Guy said it was "like an enclosed dune buggy." Sounds promising.

Ahead of Detroit, pay attention to SEMA, too, as we have it on good authority that HUMMER will show off a couple of concepts based on current product that have a distinct shot at production if reaction is positive enough.

HUMMER's been keeping busy. It's spending money to improve its current offerings ('08 H2 and H3), further expanding the lineup (don't forget those H3T spy shots), and there's more in the pipeline (H4). The Sierra Club's favorite piñata isn't going anywhere, there are just going to be more goodies inside.

I'm not surprised. I don't think anyone who follows GM is surprised. We've pretty much had the well-educated guess that there will be a Wrangler competitor for ages, so its kinda odd that it has taken this long. We'll see what comes of it, but as long as they are making it more than capable off-road (ie, more so than the Wrangler), pack it with enough punch with the presumed V6 powerplants, and make a manual transmission optional, they should be fine.

...I'm interested to say the least. But, as long as they don't go all Jeep Compass on us, we'll be fine...

 

[Tornado]

An "Uh-Oh" moment for the Jeep folks?

Nope. The Wrangler will still carry enough of a price advantage (can you say, 2/3 as much?) that no one after a Wrangler will consider an H4.

We'll see what comes of it, but as long as they are making it more than capable off-road (ie, more so than the Wrangler)

The old Wrangler, which was presumably worse off-road than the current one, mangled the H3 in anything that wasn't a highway. The piece of trash Liberty was far closer the the H3's ability than the H3 was to the Wrangler.
Unless Hummer plans on selling a rebadged Lada Niva (which, ironically enough, it could theoretically do), I can't see this touching the Wrangler. For that matter, what platform will GM build it on? The H3 was built on GM's smallest truck platform, and all of the truck platforms below it are either incredibly old and/or crossover/minivan platforms.

 

[Regulatin]

The new interior on the H2 looks...good? Wow I can't believe I just said that.

Haha, I own a Hummer H2. I think it is the most comfy interior a car can have. I truly don't know what you're talking about.

 

[YSSMAN]

Nope. The Wrangler will still carry enough of a price advantage (can you say, 2/3 as much?) that no one after a Wrangler will consider an H4.

I wouldn't call the Wrangler "cheap" in price by any means. You'd have to get a stripper Wrangler X to dip below $20K, and even the slightest equipment change drastically increases the price. Considering that most of the models hover around $30K these days, it really makes me cringe. I remember when Jeeps were actually "affordable," but that no longer is the case unfortunately.

I'd expect the H4 to undercut the H3 "Base" by at least $3-5K, sticking it right in the fold with the Wrangler Sahara Unlimited (assuming the H4 has four-doors). Much of that will be determined by what HUMMER decides to use for standard equipment, that kind of mechanical pieces are used, etc. I'm pretty sure that the H3T will have to factor in somewhere as well...

The old Wrangler, which was presumably worse off-road than the current one, mangled the H3 in anything that wasn't a highway. The piece of trash Liberty was far closer the the H3's ability than the H3 was to the Wrangler. Unless Hummer plans on selling a rebadged Lada Niva (which, ironically enough, it could theoretically do), I can't see this touching the Wrangler. For that matter, what platform will GM build it on? The H3 was built on GM's smallest truck platform, and all of the truck platforms below it are either incredibly old and/or crossover/minivan platforms.

I'm not sure where you read your assessments of the H3 off-road, but it was my understanding that it always performed better on the dirt than on the road. The only problem was that the origional 3.5L I5 didn't pack enough BHP to be worth a damn, which made it quite disappointing by comparison to the Toyota FJ Cruiser. The Wrangler is still the best 4WD vehicle you can buy for a reasonable price, so beating it completely off-road will largely depend on what GM decides to equip the H4 with.

Given the lack of a large number of platforms to choose from, the H4 would likely used a highly modified version of the GMT355 chassis already in use under the H3, and thusly the Colorado and Canyon as well. Its a fairly decent chassis, and my guess is that they're going to shorten it a bit before they throw it off in the dirt. The big question will be over what kind of axles, suspension bits, transmissions, and engines they use. I would hope that they stay away from the I5, but they'll probably use it again.

We won't know anything until Detroit though, so we've got a while.

 

[Tornado]

I wouldn't call the Wrangler "cheap" in price by any means. You'd have to get a stripper Wrangler X to dip below $20K, and even the slightest equipment change drastically increases the price. Considering that most of the models hover around $30K these days, it really makes me cringe. I remember when Jeeps were actually "affordable," but that no longer is the case unfortunately.

I understand that, but the fact remains that the Wrangler can be had for under 20k and I doubt the H4 will come near it as a starting price. Especially since Hummers are rarely sold as base models, it seems. If GM puts the Atlas in it than I would whole-heartedly recommend it over a Wrangler spruced up to H4 price only for the engine alone. But strictly comparing base models I would suggest a Wrangler over an H3, and if an H4 continues Hummer's trend it would be a no-brainer. The main problem is that I'm sure they would use the I5 again, and if they use the GMT355 again (because, as you say, they probably have little choice) it will suffer off-road for the same reason the H3 did.

I'm not sure where you read your assessments of the H3 off-road, but it was my understanding that it always performed better on the dirt than on the road. The only problem was that the origional 3.5L I5 didn't pack enough BHP to be worth a damn, which made it quite disappointing by comparison to the Toyota FJ Cruiser. The Wrangler is still the best 4WD vehicle you can buy for a reasonable price, so beating it completely off-road will largely depend on what GM decides to equip the H4 with.

My understanding of the H3's poor off-road ability (and I didn't mean for it to sound as if it was better on-road than off) comes from the original I5/4 speed trucks (probably the most common ones by far), and I don't know how well the V8 or manual one does. The normal H3 was simply too heavy and too anemic (and the 4 speed only hurt matters), and it was regularly outperformed by many vehicles off-road; notably matched by the atrocious FJ Cruiser. It showed through that it was a Hummer in name only (say what you want about the H2, but that had the ability at least). Considering the H4 will be a move further downmarket, and each of the previous vehicles in succession have gotten worse and worse off-road as they move farther downmarket, I can't see the H4 being any better off-road than the H3 is, much less than the Wrangler.

 

[YSSMAN]

Understanding all the way around, good post!

I too would hope that they would pull their heads out of their asses and keep the Atlas I6 around for something, but I'm beginning to doubt it more and more as the LY7 (V6) and the various LS (V8) spin offs take over. It would be quite the setup with the six-speed manual, offering nearly as much power as a V8 with some decent fuel economy... But sadly, I greatly doubt it will happen.

On the topic of the H3, I don't recall a test of the updated models with the 3.7L or the 5.3L and the six-speed manual. I'm sure the new engines made the overall performance drastically better, particularly the V8, but it still pushes prices too high. I'd much rather have a stripper Chevy Colorado with a well-done Z71 setup with the V8 if you ask me, but then again, it isn't built to do any kind of heavy-duty off-roading.