Saturn Officially Announces Pricing on Astra; Mazda3 in its Sights

[Dave A]

Imo the MKII Focus is possibly the best car in it's class for cost, build quality, enjoyment and practicality combined. I'm considering getting one next year.

 

[Race Idiot]

Imo the MKII Focus is possibly the best car in it's class for cost, build quality, enjoyment and practicality. I'm considering getting one next year.

The golf had a nicer interior but it was no way near as pointable as the Focus was, although that might have been because I drove a TDI and the engine probably made it a little more nose heavy. The astra was decent enough, the engine was pretty damn decent 1800, the steering felt way too vauge still, but it wasnt wallowing all over the place like some vectras ive driven, but it still had a horrible gearshift and the seats made my bach ache after about an hours driving which seems to be a vauxhall/opel trait.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

As far as the Corolla is concerned, we're still on the old model, and I have no idea when we're getting the updated one. With the Impreza though, you may be right. I didn't get an opportunity to drive it, but the interior is definitely a low-point.

Girlfriend is a summer contract at the Cambridge plant, they have already seen the new Corolla/Matrix and apparently have built a handful too. From what we've been able to figure out, it should be available as either a very early 2009 model, or a kinda late 2008 model.

As for the Astra... I've gotta agree with the common grain here. People made such a huge deal about the Vectra when it came here, despite it being a three-year old car by that point, and it wasn't even at the top of the game when new over in Europe. But here it was hailed as some kind of GM saviour and won some kind of "Best Car" award... tell me the industry isn't biased. I'm sure there will be raving about the Astra too, and while I am very happy it's here as opposed to the Ion, if we're just getting the 1.8, I really don't see it being too much of a threat to our current small-car establishment. Even with the boring looks, I'd take a 2.5i Impreza.

Oh... and 18in wheels on a 140hp car? Stupid.

 

[TopHat]

The Mazda 3 weeps at your ignorance.

 

[YSSMAN]

Do cars in that segment not sell very well in the US or something, or is it just a market that for some reason hasn't been pushed.

Some folks already addressed the issue, but I do care to elaborate;

Only until the recent spikes in gas prices has the small car market ever really meant anything. Truthfully they have always sold quite well, but up until a few years ago, they were never really considered mainstream models for average folks, families, etc. Like TopHat pointed out, it was the larger more "mainstream" cars that always receive the best attention; The Honda Accords, Toyota Camrys, Ford Tauruses, etc. The trend must have started not too long after the roll-over to the 2000s when the small car game really started becoming interesting. The small car was no-longer known as the "Penalty Box" (as Car and Driver so often called it), and at least in my mind, became a far-better option to the larger mid-size models.

The problem here is that the American automakers really didn't even think about doing a halfway-decent model until the Ford Focus first showed up, GM didn't even try until 2005 with the Cobalt, and Chrysler has continued to flounder with the transition from the "too old" Neon to the "too weird" Caliber. The Astra, coming with its strong European roots, much like the Focus, shows that the small car is still worth something... Even if it has an American badge on the front. More so, it demonstrates that GM realizes that the better cars are elsewhere, and there isn't any reason why not to sell them here in the US.

===

If Ford would realize how stupid they are by not having the MKII Focus here, I wouldn't be surprised if I gave that the nod for "Best-in-class." Problem is, they're all idiots in Dearborn, and until they figure it out, we will continue with the down-syndrome Focus 3.0 that still resides on the MKI chassis.

 

[Joey D]

The thing that draws me to the Astra is that I can get a European car with an American automakers discount.

 

[Philly]

If Ford would realize how stupid they are by not having the MKII Focus here, I wouldn't be surprised if I gave that the nod for "Best-in-class." Problem is, they're all idiots in Dearborn, and until they figure it out, we will continue with the down-syndrome Focus 3.0 that still resides on the MKI chassis.

That is such an obvious decision. It makes me wonder if there is something else holding the car back. It seems that the majority of small cars on sale in Europe would never stand a chance at passing a US crash safety test, and the ones that do would probably be considered "unsafe." And then there are the California emissions laws. I'm thinking that maybe the Focus wasn't designed to ever come here and so now Ford can't sell it here.

 

[TopHat]

That is such an obvious decision. It makes me wonder if there is something else holding the car back. It seems that the majority of small cars on sale in Europe would never stand a chance at passing a US crash safety test, and the ones that do would probably be considered "unsafe." And then there are the California emissions laws. I'm thinking that maybe the Focus wasn't designed to ever come here and so now Ford can't sell it here.

Why don't we all stop whining and buy a damn Mazda 3? Its the same platform.

 

[YSSMAN]

True, but it isn't nearly as good-looking and wouldn't be as cheap as the Focus. On that same token, we could also say "Buy a C30," which is nearly the same as an ST underneath... Just without the tarmac-peeling performance.

 

[TopHat]

I'd think that 227 horses would be plenty.

 

[Tornado]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the MKV Golf out before both as well? For some reason they felt that benchmarking the MKIV model in the US was the way to go (we didn't see it until 2005, after the Cobalt as the Jetta).

Which doesn't automatically mean that the Astra is any better at battling the Mk. V than the Cobalt is. Considering that the Mk IV had a few things that were done better than in the Mk. V, and that the Astra will start at a way higher price than the Mk V (and is, as already said, not competitive with the Golf regardless), I still see not what the big deal was.

Don't get me wrong here, I love the Cobalt. However, it has fallen behind a bit.

If I recall correctly, there has been 5 cars launched in the segment since the Cobalt came out: The Rabbit, the Civic, the Elantra, the G5 and the Sentra. The G5 is a better car but mostly a twin of the Cobalt. The Sentra isn't competitive. The other three are better, but the Cobalt undercuts 1 of them in price by a wide enough margin that it nullifies the quality difference. But even with the addition of three other cars the Cobalt/G5 is still a top-five car.

I'd say they look better, probably drive better, wouldn't be surprised if they got better fuel mileage, probably are built better, and is as close as you're going to get to a Rabbit under an American make.

Looks are largely irrelevant, they drive mostly the same from what I've read, they are probably mostly the same quality level (due to both being developed by Opel), and are roughly on the same footing when taking on the Rabbit. Only one costs $3,000 more. Is it a better car than the Ion was? Yes, but so was the Cavalier it replaced.
On fuel mileage: The Astra is estimated to have roughly the same mileage as the Cobalt does (21-23 city, 30-32 highway) while being down about 30 BHP and 45 lb.ft. of torque. Which means it will be slower than the Cobalt is by a good margin (both the 2.2 and the 2.4).

...The Rabbit is still top-dog, but I'm eager to give the Saturn a run to see how she feels. I'd love to be able to buy one, but I have no idea if I'd be able to afford one any time soon...

I agree it should be given a chance, and that Saturn desperately needed to get the piece of trash Ion out of their bottom line, but I can't really understand why anyone would think it would be notably better in any category than the Cobalt we already have. Especially when price is brought in to the picture.

You'll probably find the Astra will slot just above the Corolla.

Remember, we have an older Corolla than you do. And Tophaticent's list isn't really that good if he was going in order of quality.

 

[Joey D]

Looks are largely irrelevant, they drive mostly the same from what I've read, they are probably mostly the same quality level (due to both being developed by Opel), and are roughly on the same footing when taking on the Rabbit. Only one costs $3,000 more. Is it a better car than the Ion was? Yes, but so was the Cavalier it replaced.
On fuel mileage: The Astra is estimated to have roughly the same mileage as the Cobalt does (21-23 city, 30-32 highway) while being down about 30 BHP and 45 lb.ft. of torque. Which means it will be slower than the Cobalt is by a good margin (both the 2.2 and the 2.4).

Wow that's pretty poor mileage from a compact car.

 

[YSSMAN]

The stuff I'm reading on the internet says 25/34 with the manual transmission, 24/32 with the slushbox, no real large differences between the overall performance of the 2.2L versus the 2.4L. When Car and Driver had one out they managed to average 27 MPG, which is what I get in my Jetta, which is what I'd pretty much consider average.

...I believe Casio was saying that the Astra would get 29 MPG based on what the Aussie model with the same engine does...

 

[Joey D]

I e-mail Saturn today asking for the release date of the Astra and got this reply...

Dear Mr. Donaldson,

Thank you for contacting Saturn and your interest in the all-new 2008 ASTRA. We appreciate the time you have taken to write us. The all-new 2008 ASTRA is scheduled to begin production on 10/1/07. Vehicles generally begin arriving at dealers about 6 to 8 weeks later. Please keep in mind that production dates are preliminary and subject to change. Your preferred Saturn retailer is in the best position to advise you of when the 2008 ASTRA will be available in your area also when they can start to enter orders for the 2008 Model Year.

The 2008 ASTRA will be offered in three-door and five-door models, with a wide range of standard equipment and safety features, and delivers sporty performance with very good fuel economy. To see the full line of Saturn cars and SUVs or to locate your preferred retailer, click on or copy and paste the following address http://www.saturn.com into your Web browser: You can search inventory, see current offers, or schedule a test drive.

At Saturn, we strive to provide exceptional customer service. If we can be of any further assistance please email us or call 800-950-2438 between the hours of 8am to 11pm Eastern Time seven days a week. Again, thank you for contacting Saturn.

Sincerely,

The Saturn Marketing Team
http://www.saturn.com/

 

[Azuremen]

27 MPG is average unless you drive a Japanese made car, in which case its CRAP. My parent's Accord has better gas mileage than that, with an Automatic. But right around 30, or a bit under, is average for an American made car I've found.

 

[Kent]

My auto transmission Corolla ('06) gets about 32 on average (city and highway combined) and has run as high as 45 on long drives (Louisiana to Florida). 👍

Also, I'm impressed by Saturn's response. 👍
It's good to see them react and encourage customers without being overly assertive.

Likewise, I'm very happy to see the Astra will be running with 3 and 5 doors. 👍
This really could be one cool car. I'm just hesitant to say the build or reliability will be good but that's not to guessed about, that's for a test drive next year to reveal. Which btw, will certainly occur just because I'd love to drive an American car if possible.

 

[Joey D]

On the road Astra siting!

 

[Philly]

Ooh. That is cool. It doesn't really look all that special in that shot, but I'll wait until I finally see one to judge that. I still think the Aura is pretty cool. I didn't know they were ont the streets yet.

 

[YSSMAN]

Huzzah! They're heeeeere!

I'll have to venture down to the local dealer and see when they're getting their first models in. I'd love to be able to say that I could afford one, but its simply not the case. Oh well, the used-car market should be great with these...

 

[Joey D]

Looks like the Astra was a good move for GM...at least financially.

Lutz says importing Astra saved $900 million
The Saturn Astra represents a quantum leap forward for GM in the small car market. For a mere $100 million, which is chicken feed for a new product, the General traded in the uninspiring Ion for the European juggernaut Opel Astra. Many thought GM was merely buying time (literally) until a truly global Astra appears in 2010, since we've been told for years that it was too expensive (see: Focus) to retro-fit a Euro-car for the US Market. Maximum Bob has turned that paradigm upside down, as he explained that the spared development costs have netted GM savings of about $900 million. Of course, GM would probably never shell out $1 billion for a small car with a volume of 45,000 units per year, but since the General makes products all over the globe, it makes sense to sell the best cars and trucks wherever it can. If it helps keep your factories at full capacity while saving $900 million at the same time, than that's cool, too. Hey, if this is the new reality of automakers going global, we're all for it. Now Ford, bring on that Mondeo already!

 

[YSSMAN]

Quite right, its a good move financially. Their plan is to eventually make it so that a given car in a given market is essentially interchangeable with the same variant in another. So, for example, the Lake Orion plant can build all of the Epsilon II cars, including the Holden/Opel/Vauxhall variants, while say the Trollahantan (sp?) plant in Sweden can build all of the Alpha cars, etc.

It saves development and production costs in the end, the only worries being how to make the cars different enough to woo buyers in.