Search is Over: Perfect Settings!

Discussion in 'GT2 Settings & Tunings' started by MinusB, Jan 2, 2006.

  1. MinusB

    MinusB

    Messages:
    19
    Hello All,

    I'm brand-new to this forum, but not to Gran Turismo. Since I was too cheap to get a PS2 for about 2 years after they came out (yeah yeah), I was stuck playing GT2 into the GROUND!! I came here looking for some advice for GT4, and found this part of the website... which of course rekindled my love for GT2 that I drove nearly to death!

    Anyway, I've been a mechanic by trade, and a professional racing jetski builder in my spare time. As it is, I love the tuning aspect of the GT games, to which I can focus my talents and skills to extract every inch of performance for my driving style. Which, I may bring up, should - and most likely is - different than many other drivers. The settings I use are invariably different than what YOU will be comfortable with, yet are what I've found to give the cars the best control and lap times.

    I started by keeping detailed notes on every setting I used for every car (with 99 cars, it can get tedious), as well as keeping notes on the cars' original settings and configurations. After I created a "best setting" for each car, I wanted to find a commonality between what I felt was a "best setting" and what the "stock" settings were for all my cars... and I found it. After tuning 99 cars, I got a quick feel for what they needed, and what was going on; and documented everything to begin comparison.

    I found that - within a small percentage here and there - each car's tuning was changed to the same degree each time for each car. There's actually a formula!!!

    For ALL cars, I purchase every single high-end part available in the game (like when there's 3 mufflers, just get the "race" one). And with the availability of 500,000 credits in one Gran Turismo All Stars race, why not? You've got enough money, may as well use it!

    My formula:
    All cars get the spring rates increased by 25% front and rear. Exceptions to this are FF cars that get only 10% up front and 25% in the rear, and the full-race prize cars that already have very stiff springs to start with, which get 0% increases. Some cars in my garage (Acura NSX Type S Zero, Camaro Z28 '69, All Corvettes, All Older Muscle Cars) preferred a 30% increase overall, and the Toyota Sprinter Trueno felt best with a 15/30% increase. Otherwise, +25% front and rear seemed to cover most all cars.

    I lower every car by only 10%. It sounds small, but it actually uses up most of the adjustment available, while still leaving a decent amount of travel and sway. Notable exceptions to this rule are the Oreca Viper, S2000 GT1, 3000GT LM Edition, Altezza LM Edition, Wed's Celica, Castrol/Cerumo/Denso Supra (15%), Mugen NSX, RX-7 LM Edition (25%), Cusco Impreza (20%), and the XJ220 Racecar (35%). As you can see, it's typically an oddball or exceptional car that will usually want something different. As well, Rally driving needs a different setup, but isn't as demanding of "perfection" with settings.

    The dampers, I've found, are far too stiff for most suspension action to happen at my race pace, and need to be loosened up a bit. The stock settings are usually "7" for front/rear and compression/rebound; to which I like to bring down to "6" and tune from there. Some cars like stiffer settings while others like it softer - and some like a mix front to rear, etc. You'll have to play with this to fine tune the car to your style, as this is usually the biggest factor to making a car "feel" right to YOU.

    The ol' "2.0/1.0" camber setting is usually the ideal, and I stick with this as closely as possible with all cars. Lighter FF cars can benefit from "1.8/1.0" settings to the effect of sticking in corners and turning much better. Some cars may want more rear camber if they are heavy and have a tendency to push the arse end out (RUF cars, or the Viper for example).

    I don't mess with toe in/out in the video game because it doesn't positively or negatively affect my driving. I leave it zeroed. You can affect your straight-line or cornering habits by changing this setting, but again, I've found the "best" to usually be zero for my style. Along the same lines, I don't change the brake balance settings very often, unless something is very glaringly off about it.

    I, 9 times out of 10, will soften the anti-sway bars (stabilizers). Since I like stiff, low cars, something needs to "give" if I want traction - and I usually get it from softer sway-bar settings. Most cars like 3, while smaller cars like 2. Play around until it suits your style.

    I like to balance the downforce with the spring settings. That is, if I increased the spring rates by 10% in the front and 25% in the back, then the downforce will be increased conversely 25% in the front and 10% in the back. Seems my formula for suspension settings nets the best downforce settings too.

    After all that, it will be up to you to tune your car to your liking. I've found now that I can usually apply my formula to ANY car and have it perform close enough to my standards that it rarely needs messing with. Transmission ratios will also depend on your driving style and the track - I prefer to use the quick adjusting feature, so that I don't need to write or memorize a dozen different settings for each gear per track - just get the car to top out and the end of the longest straight, and remember that one quick adjust number. Sometimes, for some cars, I like to have a number of different settings that will help with small idiosycratic differences between tracks. A good example would be how I dial in the Castrol Supra for Laguna Seca versus all the other tracks: The car will be slightly higher, have a stiffer sway bar, lower tranny ratios, much higher downforce than usual, and very high LSD control. But even then, it still adheres to my formula and is "tweaked" to get the most out of the unique conditions of that track.



    Hopefully this will be of some benefit to someone out there STILL playing this game. I put in thousands of hours with my tuning, and it would all be a waste in my mind to let it rot in my notebooks without putting it to good use and sharing it. To those of you that are having trouble tuning cars in this game, please use my methods and report back. To those of you with the same experience/knowledge about this as I have, please share what you are doing differently - and if you have tested my methods or not. Do you have your own formulas?

    I would be more than happy to share a setting for any car in the game, whether it be to compare to your settings or if you're having trouble understanding what I'm saying. Maybe you have a favorite car, and you think you've got it "dialed in"? Again, I've got 99 cars in my garage all tuned up, and I've got the formula at hand to set up any other car I feel like trying out. If you need help from MY style of tuning, I'd be glad to get you in the right direction.

    Thanks GT Planet for letting me post my first post. Hope you like it!! :tup:
     
    Keef likes this.
  2. Renault

    Renault

    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Argentina
    Great research MinusB, like you, and some others, i still play GT2, its the best racing game on the psx (dont look for a N64 game like this, cause there isnt :dopey: ). I'll try your settings and see how they run for me, i'm playing gt2 in my pc to get better graphics, besides i have a logitech analog controller that's very similar to the dual shock, so no prob with that. And for the GT4, well, i have the game, but not the console :indiff: . I'll try to give some feedback soon.
     
  3. Sharky.

    Sharky. Premium

    Messages:
    11,850
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Welcome to GTP, MinusB and Renault :)

    Minus, would that formula for tuning work on GT4 with the same effect as with GT2? Great explanation, too. :)
     
    Vonie likes this.
  4. MinusB

    MinusB

    Messages:
    19
    Blue Sharky,

    Glad you asked!! I've been working on that this week, trying to "nail down" a generalized formula. Unfortunately, the cars in GT4 are a little more unique to their own traits and somewhat demand a more specific approach. But then again, I said the same thing about GT2 after playing GT1 for two years.

    I would say that you COULD try to use a 25% approach in GT4 as I have, but that you'll probably find that those aren't the best settings you could be using.

    Of course, when I learn something solid about the game, I'll be sure to say something about it! :tup: For now, it'll be a process of trial-and-error getting it right, and comparing between all the cars to find out consistencies with my results.
     
  5. MinusB

    MinusB

    Messages:
    19
    Just some FYI info:

    In my haste to get this more-than-outdated information out to "the masses", I neglected to include some interesting facts.

    It has been noted that the different levels of suspension modification increase spring rates and lower the car more with each progressive quality of suspension hop-up. In other words, the better the "kit" you buy, the stronger the springs are and the lower your car sits, as compared to stock and/or a lesser suspension kit. In going through my notebook, I recalled that no matter the increase from the aftermarket kit (remember that some were 25% and some were 30%), the overall spring increase from stock is normally 225% stiffer, and the car sits 70% lower. This happens nearly every time, with only a few percent change here and there depending on the car; and is why I prefer to go with the 25% increase from the aftermarket kit's spring number, rather than 225% up from the stock number. Not that it matters, but it's what I feel is most accurate. However, that would explain the variances in cars that prefer the extra 5% stiffness.

    Just thought ya might like to know that. :tup:
     
  6. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    23,102
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    May I also extend a welcome to MinusB and Renault to GTP.

    In regard to the GT4 question, (with the exception of dampers - which are still set to high) I have yet to see a formula approach work in GT4, a number of people have tried, but the results are a bit hit and miss. I personally put this down to the greater demand for differing car types (weight is now so much more important) and tracks. The set-up required for the High Speed Ring and the Nurburgring would be quite different, even on the same car.

    You may find the following of interest, as I have put together my tuning and set-up notes for GT4 into a suspension and brake tuning guide.

    Let me know what you think.


    Link to GT Planet thread for Scaff's tuning guide

    Direct link to guide (right click and save as) - 2.1 meg (.pdf)

    Regards

    Scaff
     
  7. Parnelli Bone

    Parnelli Bone Premium

    Messages:
    10,431
    Location:
    United States
    Hey welcome Minus B! Hope you stick around, there are still a few GT2 fans here, and i am one of them. I've been going slowly thru GT3 since the summer yet i return to GT2 alot. This forum at GT Planet is great-it's the only one i've found that still discusses GT2 almost daily.

    BTW i'm a fellow mechanic tho i'm not all that experienced yet. Personally, i don't use a formula for tuning--i've always been more of an intuitive sort. Back in my GT1 days, i used to experiment with extreme settings and then "dial them in" so any exaggerated behaviour was then minimized.

    After many many (many) hours of GT1, 2, & 3, it's interesting that i also have some conclusions very similar to yours.

    1. I also use lots of Camber on Vipers--in GT1, i'd use up to 7.5° on the front wheels. In GT2 i'll go up to 5. Muscle cars can sometimes handle larger settings up front as well.

    2. Over time, i've eschewed Toe settings as well...nowadays i only use toe for rallies. There's a fellow here named Sucahyo who proved that the toe settings in GT2 are actually backward after he figured out how to assign extreme settings via use of a computer program: positive toe will turn the front of the wheels inward and negative turned them out. shame on Polyphony.

    3. I also rarely lower cars all the way. I've seen that suggestion alot on this board: "lower your cars all the way" and i find it cuts back on manuverability a bit--especially at tracks like Seattle and Trial Mountain. If you've noticed in GT2, they didn't program car bottoms correctly. Lower a car in GT1 and i'll actually LOSE speed over bumps. In GT3, you can create sparks as some of the full-racing cars bottom out.

    Anyways, welcome. *(
     
  8. sucahyo

    sucahyo

    Messages:
    2,171
    Welcome to GTP ! Another GT2 fan :).

    I overlook this thread :ouch: !

    edit:
    It seems you use default racing suspension as base. Do you ever try comparing stock suspension and default racing suspension handling?

    My current tuning method:
    - use testing set: set all LSD to 1, max ride height, 1 damper, 0 camber, 0 toe, 0 stabilizer
    - find the hardest drivable spring rate, look from the replay, bumper cam or wheel cam.
    - balance the car by reducing front or rear spring, but change the appropriate damper on each change. that is, finding spring rate and damper combination. every spring rate decrease, accompany by damper increase. More spring rate is more grip for me. For drift I use 2/2 spring rate, 10/10 10/10 damper.
    - keep finding spring rate and damper combination until no more can be done.
    - adjust stabilizer to compensate what lacks on spring and damper combination.
    - lower the ride height to non earth scracthing height.
    - use camber and toe only when necessary
    - increase the BBC up to the point where the wheel give smoke. reduce front/add rear if the front wheel smoking first when braking.
    - consider LSD use, test it, removing LSD doesn't means fitting 0/0/0 0/0/0 LSD. Every car has default LSD.
    - I never use different tire
    - I always use maximum downforce available
    - as min front max rear ride height can be considered cheat, I will not use it again
    - Damper 10 is softer than 1 in GT2, if you believe rebound should be harder than bound, then use 10 for bound, and 5 for rebound. If its not possible, lower the spring rate.
    - For gearing, if I have time, I use excel calculator, if not, I use auto something on lowest final drive. Except on crazy revving very light flywheel race car, I use highest final drive for that (ex. jesc skyline).
    - car bottoming exist in GT2, but it seems to stabilize too low car, and only make grip loose a little. I prefer to prevent the car from kissing the road, its more natural to see.

    Do bottoming out slows the car down in GT3, other than create spark?

    How about taming fully tuned Elise GT1 in redrock valley, focus on neutral handling? but post the answer in setup vs setup thread. We can start to compare setting :).
     
  9. MinusB

    MinusB

    Messages:
    19
  10. Stingray-Man

    Stingray-Man

    Messages:
    114
    Thanks guys,:tup: this is exactly what the casual GT2 fan needs to take it up to the next level. I will experiment with these guidelines. I hope you come back MinusB. I haven't seen a post from you in a while.
     
  11. MinusB

    MinusB

    Messages:
    19
    Hey, you're right, it has been a while!

    I'm still playing GT2, but not a lot lately. Socom3 suddenly grabbed my attention... boy do I love guns! Anyhoo, I've been trying to come up with something for GT4, but still can't find anything underlying that links it all together. I also did the setup vs setup thread with Sucahyo, and just recently posted regarding my results using his setups, and blame a lot on my driving style.

    We need to pick another car to test out! :tup:
     
  12. zoxxy

    zoxxy (Banned)

    Messages:
    4,334
    Great thread guys! :D

    My usual settings for the ~1200kg cars are like following.

    For a smooth track:
    Spring rate: 11-ish both front and rear.
    Ride height: Usually about 5-10mm above the lowest.
    Camber: Front - 3.0, rear - 1.8-2.0
    Toe: Front - 0.10, rear - -0.05

    Not sure about the toe. Am I doing it right?

    I want it to be like this:

    \ /
    | |
    | |
    / \


    Cheers!
     
  13. sucahyo

    sucahyo

    Messages:
    2,171
    The camber is a bit too much, from my body roll test, the angle usually bellow 1.5. The toe is reverse of that. It should be -0.10/+0.05
     
  14. zoxxy

    zoxxy (Banned)

    Messages:
    4,334
    Thanks! :tup:
     
  15. Stingray-Man

    Stingray-Man

    Messages:
    114
    Hi MinusB: Thanks for all the info. I am going to try it with the Saleen Mustang asap. I was wondering what you do with the springs if you have 25% on both front and rear.