Sebastien Bourdais vs. Sebastien Loeb

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JohnBM01

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Same first name. Same home country. Different racing series. Both have been exceptional in their respective series and have at least one championship right about now. Question is, which Sebastien is better? This is a duel between who is better of the two. Or if you're a gridiron football fan, you can think of this as the "Sebastien Bowl." So if they went head-to-head in a variety of racing disciplines, which Sebastien is better?

S. Bourdais won his race as Marcus Gronholm edged out S. Loeb in the Acropolis Rally. So who's the better Sebastien? Reply now. Ring the bell. Touch gloves and fight clean.
 
Interesting concept, John.

I’m not sure which is better, because it is hard to pick apart such exceptional talent – especially when they are both in fairly unrelated fields of motorsport.

The Sebastien boys are my favourite drivers in their respective disciplines, as they have both shown such domination of their rivals. They have, almost, unmatched talent from their competitors.

Both are very smooth, and versatile.

Bourdais, for his ability to win on anything from ovals, to street circuits, and anything inbetween—not to mention his adventures in IROC.

On the same token, there is Loeb, who races – and wins – on surfaces ranging from tarmac through to snow.
JohnBM01
if they went head-to-head in a variety of racing disciplines, which Sebastien is better?
Loeb, for the simple reason that to understand and be competitive in rally, you have to understand how a car will work in all situations. Loeb is nothing but smooth, and fast, on every surface he races on.

If you watch him on his second runs through a stage, he will improve more than anyone else, almost every time. He learns everytime he drives, and he exploits that knowledge to get every second out of a stage – almost like a circuit driver searching for a perfect lap in qualifying.

I think he could be competitive in almost any racing series, given the time. With that, I think he would be better able to adapt to circuit racing, compared to Bourdais trying to adapt to rally.

Not that I want to take anything away from either driver, as they are both amazing talents, and have almost nothing more to prove in their current disciplines. For Bourdais, there is Formula One. For Loeb, perhaps he has to continue looking for a new challenge in the WRC.
 
Don't get swayed by the second-run thing Blake. Loeb -as championship leader since time began - is always first on the road, and therefore should be expected to improve the most on his second runs.

I think that Bourdais is an exceptional talent, but I wonder how much exceptional talent he's up against. Tracy is certainly very good, and very consistent, but I don't really feel that ChampCar has the depth of talent that is needed to really expose Bourdais as either the real deal or just a talented pedaller. Certainly, when Justin Wilson seems to be his main opposition, I have to question his series lead as being a true arbiter of his talent. Also, with regard to Bourdais, his tenure in the Newman Haas team is helping him no end. Newman Haas have stayed with ChampCar and are undoubtedly experiencing an advantage because of it. They've also maintained a consistency at the top of the field, where others perhaps have not. Although Forsythe Racing should probably be closer to Newman Haas than they are.

Sebastien Loeb is incredible in a sort of Tommi Makinen way. He doesn't really look like he's going that quickly, or like he's particularly trying, but there he is, banging in the fastest stage times, race after race. He's been helped by the fact that Subaru are being hobbled by the almost total non-competitiveness of the Pirelli tyres, and the fact that the Ford is still being sorted, and is thus finding interesting new pieces to break all the time. And let's not be under any illusions, the Kronos Citroen team is very well funded, as was the Citroen works team before.

I think that Loeb has had some luck - Had Peugeot continued to develop the 206WRC, and had they stayed on Michelin tyres, I think Citroen would have struggled in '04 and '05. But he's definitely the real deal as far as drivers go. The Gronholm/Ford combo is very very fast, and yet Loeb usually has the measure of them.

Additionally, Loeb has given a very good account of himself at Le Mans, and is a two-time winner of the Race of Champions.

My vote goes to Loeb.
 
GilesGuthrie
I think that Bourdais is an exceptional talent, but I wonder how much exceptional talent he's up against.
Indeed you have a point. Champcar is not the best of the best in terms of driving talent. But you certainly can’t argue that his main opposition aren’t quick guys. Sure, they’re probably no superstars compared to some out there – but it’s not as though these guys don’t know what they’re doing behind a steering wheel. Still, when you’re right….
 
Now, how the heck isn't Bourdais at least TESTING in Formula 1? He's made it clear on many occaisions he wants in to F1, and he's got a boat load of talent. What's holding him back? I mean, there are certain drivers who will spend their lives racing karts, then Formula Vee, then Formula Ford, Renault, GP2, then maybe, maybe make the big time of F1. I got a bone to pick with these guys because, they have narrowed their sights WAY to much. As an aspiring driver myself, I run karts, quarter midgets, Formula Vee, D Sports Racer and the list goes on. These cats that are F1 or bust guys, all the power to 'em, but they somehow find the right contacts and push their way into the seats of the, how shall I say it, less impactful teams. This bothers me because genuine(sp.?) racers like Seabass (I hate that name, and I'm surprised he appears to be cool with it.) are busting their humps running the 24h and dominating ChampCar (which to be a driver in you can't be just anyone. These guys aren't slouches(sp.?)) Anyway, This was a little off topic but back on the subject, Loeb is something else. Those rally guys need a different kind of skill set to go along with your generic racing skill set (of course that is the same in all disciplines) but Bourdais just impresses me in a way that just seems... better. If that didn't make sense, it's my fault. I think Bourdais gets my vote for the battle of Seabass but I tell yah, they're both unbelievable drivers all-round.

m.piedgros
 
Bourdais got off on the wrong foot with Flavio a few years back, and he really hasn’t been able to get his foot in the door since then. :indiff:
 
Really, huh. Do you know what happend? I'd be interested to hear that story. ChampCar fans, depending on how the story goes do you think that he's the guy at fault for the... rocky relationship with another big mouthed ego-maniac Paul Tracy. 'Cause PT doesn't seem to have problems with anyone else. Seabass, or Sebby (which I think is a better nicname) doesn't seem to have a lot of friends in the paddock.

m.piedgros
 
Blake
Bourdais got off on the wrong foot with Flavio a few years back, and he really hasn’t been able to get his foot in the door since then. :indiff:

I read an interview with Franck Montagny in Autosport this week, where he said that both he and Bourdais got to do some Renault F1 testing at the same test session. Apparently they were "within a tenth or two" of each other, and Montagny said he got signed to the Renault Driver Development programme, but "didn't really know why they picked [him]". The interviewer made the comment that it might be because Montagny signed with Flavio's management company, and Bourdais refused to.

Bourdais tested for Arrows a lot, and was the cause of the rift between Arrows and Red Bull: Red Bull wanted to place their Enrique Bernoldi in the team, but Walkinshaw wanted Bourdais. Red Bull won eventually, and Bernoldi was underwhelming even though he got his 15 minutes for holding up DC at Monaco for 40 laps. It had soured the relationship however, and Red Bull ramped up their involvement at Sauber, to Arrows' expense.
 
GilesGuthrie
Bourdais tested for Arrows a lot, and was the cause of the rift between Arrows and Red Bull: Red Bull wanted to place their Enrique Bernoldi in the team, but Walkinshaw wanted Bourdais. Red Bull won eventually, and Bernoldi was underwhelming even though he got his 15 minutes for holding up DC at Monaco for 40 laps. It had soured the relationship however, and Red Bull ramped up their involvement at Sauber, to Arrows' expense.
I forgot about his time at Arrows. If I recall, he had a contract to race for them in 2003 before they left Grand Prix racing.
 
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