Second Car?

[Leadfoot53]

So I'm almost 17 and am starting to do research to maybe try to get my second car. My 1971 Datsun runs pretty good, but its almost 40 years old and it has its share of problems... Some are things that are easily overlooked (like the dipstick being a little messed up) while others are downright frustrating (like the starter not working at times)! Its a good weekend car, but I want a good, reliable daily driver... I also would want it to be a stick, because out of all the stickshift cars my family has, the oldest is a 1978!

My thing is that this is currently hypothetical, because I do not have the money... YET... I get like 8 grand when I turn 18, and there is always the possibility of a generous gift from my grandmother, so its better to do research early in my opinion.

My ideal budget would be about $5000-$7500, so it wouldn't be something too crazy... I tend to like European cars. I'm just a little burned out on Asian cars. I learned to drive on 2 Honda Civics and my current "arsenal" of cars I can drive are 1 Honda, 1 Toyota, and 3 Datsuns!

Any ideas?

 

[Tornado]

E36 M3.
[/thread]


Well, no, okay. But maybe a lower spec E46 would slide under your price limit. Something like a 328.

 

[Leadfoot53]

Possibly... but one thing I thought of is that since I am turning 17, I think the insurance on a BMW would be crazy...

 

[Tornado]

Perhaps. Perhaps not. You should check either way, but car insurance ratings really are all over the place sometimes. Basically, though, European anything is going to be pretty expensive (with exceptions).

Perhaps a good Volvo?

 

[Leadfoot53]

maybe... what is ur opinion on Volkswagens (like a golf)?

 

[Tornado]

Gen IV Golfs, which is about what you would be able to afford, are great cars. The have nice interiors, decent handling and are built very well. However, they also have reliability issues and somewhat high maintenance costs, in addition to relatively expensive replacement parts. And insurance likely wouldn't be too kind. If you can afford one, I say go for it. But keep in mind that the initial purchase price will be far and away lower than what you will end up spending on it.

 

[Jim Prower]

I might actually recommend a Mk II if you can find one. It's simple to the point that you can work on it yourself easily. Main thing to watch out with on Water-cooled VWs is the Timing Belt. They ARE interference engines, they WILL eat the head alive if a timing belt breaks. Most experts say change every 50,000 miles.

 

[Leadfoot53]

I am looking on craigslist, and I am finding some E36 M3s for like $7000... would that be a good deal?

Also... would it be justifiable to buy a 3 series instead of an M3? A lot of cars I find on craigslist are 3 series or 3 series M3 clones... Is there a big enough difference to justify paying a couple grand more for the M3?

 

[YSSMAN]

maybe... what is ur opinion on Volkswagens (like a golf)?

...VW Guy walks in...


Okay, the skinny on VW's is that you've gotta time your cars just right in order to get a good one. Given your price range of about $8,000 that lands you right in the "pretty okay zone" for the MKIV generation Golfs and Jettas. Really, it depends on what kind of engine and transmission combo you're looking at, what trim package is on the car, and how well the vehicle has been maintained. The good news about the MKIV cars is that they offered a wide variety of engines (not so much transmissions) in the cars, and the wide variety of trims that were available with most of those can get you a pretty sweet deal on a pretty sweet car.

Personally, I'm impartial to the 1.8T versus the VR6, despite all of the dangers associated with it. The 2003+ 1.8T models, for the most part, sorted out the problems with sludge and such, and the significant re-tunes added a lot of power to the engine as well. A well-kept Jetta GLX 1.8T or GLI 1.8T will run you about $8-9K, and are likely to be in fairly good nick if they were owned by die-hard VW fans. They did offer a Wolfsburg version of the Jetta at the time as well, which basically stuck GLX mechanical bits under the hood of a more GL-like equipped Jetta. As I recall you got 16" BBS wheels, a sunroof, a pretty nice stereo system, and fancy cloth seats standard. Not outrageous amounts of kit, but enough for most people to keep them happy.

As for the Golf, its almost exactly the same story. However, they didn't have a Wolfsburg-like trim level on the car. You're pretty much stuck with the GLS, GLX and GTI badges there (the GL only came with the 2.0L I4). Stay 2003+, and you should be in pretty decent shape.

Be forewarned, however; Insurance rates aren't cheap. Even on my old MKIII Jetta, it was over $120 a month for me to insure it at the age of 18, and it wasn't even a "sporty" model. The GTI/GLI is going to be killer on the wallet, so I'd suggest stepping down a bit to a lower model.

The VW Passat, while being a heckuvalot larger than the Golf/Jetta, is also available in that price range with pretty decent equipment levels. The B5.5 generation cars are still some of the best-looking vehicles VW ever produced, certainly living up to their name of the poor man's Audi (deservedly so, the Passat and A4 were nearly identical vehicles at the time).

Also, this existed:

The New Beetle Turbo S was basically handed all the performance goodies from the Audi TT 1.8T, and delivered a solid performance despite the body that it had. Both fortunately and unfortunately, the car was not fondly remembered. I've seen Turbo S models going for cheap - way too cheap - considering what they are. They are rare, they are quite fast, and appear to be somewhat reliable (for a VW). If you want something different that'll blow the doors off your average Celica GT-S or Sentra SE-R, this is it.

If we want to talk other European, or European-derived options, I'd definitely look at cars like the Ford Contour SVT and Ford Focus SVT as well. Both are awesome cars in their own right, and well-kept models can be fairly easy to find for not too much money. In terms of BMWs, your price range is pretty much going to limit you to late-model E36s or very early, low-spec E46s. I've never researched insurance rates on the cars, but I imagine they aren't exactly pretty. I've always wanted an E46 328/330ci, but I'm not an expert on those vehicles.

 

[McLaren]

If we want to talk other European, or European-derived options, I'd definitely look at cars like the Ford Contour SVT and Ford Focus SVT as well. Both are awesome cars in their own right, and well-kept models can be fairly easy to find for not too much money. In terms of BMWs, your price range is pretty much going to limit you to late-model E36s or very early, low-spec E46s. I've never researched insurance rates on the cars, but I imagine they aren't exactly pretty. I've always wanted an E46 328/330ci, but I'm not an expert on those vehicles.

He will be extremely hard pressed to find a good, well maintained E46 for under $10K. Nearly all the ones I have found are pushing 120-130K+ on the odometer. I put a lot of emphasis on "+", because 80% of E46s under $10K are more around 150-180,000 miles.

At his age, he doesn't need to be subjected to the cost that could possibly come with maintaining an E46 at those miles.

 

[Leadfoot53]

Ok... Here is another question... How would you say American cars are in comparison to Japanese cars? One thing that irritates me with my car is that the ride is pretty rough (may be because my car is 40 years old, but it has a new suspension on it, and also my family's 07 camry isn't that much better...). I just want to get a car that is pretty sporty, won't break down on my, wont really have my wallet crying for mercy...

 

[YSSMAN]

At his age, he doesn't need to be subjected to the cost that could possibly come with maintaining an E46 at those miles.

I totally agree, which is why I'd keep away from BMW's for a while anyway. I've seen a few early, very very early, E46s for under $10K around here, but they're few and far between. A very late E36 would make much more sense in this instance.


RE: Difference between American and Japanese Cars

It depends on the model, the model year, and what company it came from. Despite my undying love for Volkswagen, I'm a domestic guy at heart, and more of a GM guy at that. In your price range, there are only a handful of "sporty" or "high performance" vehicles that can be considered anywhere near reliable. Ford had a solid run with the MKI and MKI.2 versions of the Focus, particularly the ZX3, SVT, and later ST models. GM's sporty options really didn't click until pretty late, the only exception being their madhouse productions in the late '80s and early '90s. You might be able to grab an early Chevrolet Cobalt LT Coupe in your price range, but I'm overall unaware of how good the early reliability was with the car. As for Chrysler... Just avoid it. The Neon was either good, or it was terrible. There was no middle ground.

 

[Eric.]

RE: Jettas.

I see 1-2 MKIV TDI Jettas for sale for around $7k at any given time around here. And they're usually manuals at that. I don't know how reliable that engine is, but I always wanted one.

I think you should definitely be focusing on picking out something that'll be a good reliable daily rather than having a classic and a new sports car, which you will attempt to modify as well, and possibly be a high mileage/unreliable one because of the budget. I'd be perfectly happy with a solid late 90s Civic for a few grand if I could keep and maintain a nice Z as well. At that kind of price the Civic is replaceable if anything major would go wrong.

The Focus isn't a particularly bad idea. I know a few people who have/had them. Most seem fine, one threw a rod from a low rpm clutch dump. That was the SOHC motor, and under 100k.

 

[McLaren]

Ok... Here is another question... How would you say American cars are in comparison to Japanese cars? One thing that irritates me with my car is that the ride is pretty rough (may be because my car is 40 years old, but it has a new suspension on it, and also my family's 07 camry isn't that much better...). I just want to get a car that is pretty sporty, won't break down on my, wont really have my wallet crying for mercy...

Careful. You're close to treading on the terms, fast, reliable, & cheap.