Settings discussions

[TheWizard]

Ok. This has been bugging me for ages, since I discovered what the tranny trick was - when I joined GT3 WRS.

For those who do not know what I am talking about, the tranny trick is some kind of bug (or feature, call it as you wish) in the GT series that allows you to set the transmission gear ratios very close together.

One of the possible ways it is performed is by setting Auto to its highest value, setting the Final Ratio to its highest value, then setting Auto back to its lowest value, and then, without touching Auto ever again, setting the Final Ratio to whatever suits you best.

Now, when I joined the GT3 WRS and I found out about this I asked in one of the races if it was okay for me to use it - if it was considered legal or cheating.

I remember being told that it was okay, so I never thought much anything else about it and start using it as necessary.

Here lately, though, the subject has been brought back up and it seems that some racers do not respect much some others that use it.

Hence the reason of this post/poll.

What do you guys think? Should it be used? Should it not? Should it be banned completely and made illegal for the WRS?

I personally think it's a feature and not a bug, therefore I deem it perfectly legal.

Let's hear what you guys think - start voting

EDIT: Notice there are three options, one of which is to keep it legal regardless, even if you think it should not be used, and the other one is to make it completely illegal, for everybody.

The Wizard.

 

[peterjford]

I have never used the tranny trick, but since the racing transmission can be altered by the user I see no reason to ban it. It doesn't give any kind of unfair advantage to anyone. I am going to try using it someday, just haven't seen a need to yet (although maybe after using it I will see why others do it).

 

[TheWizard]

I am going to try using it someday, just haven't seen a need to yet (although maybe after using it I will see why others do it).

The main advantage is that it brings each gear as close as possible to the next one, therefore allowing you (theoretically) the best acceleration you could possibly have while still keeping the top speed (since this is controlled by the Final Ratio).

The Wizard.

 

[SHigSpeed]

Oops. Double post...

 

[Iceman]

It doesn't seem to do anything in GT4 so there's no reason to ban it...

 

[Tedehur]

I was a big fan of it in GT3, but I must admit that I've never used it in GT4. Perhaps that's the reason why my times suck

 

[Jump_Ace]

I voted to make it illegal, I won't explain why its just my opinion, and I'll try to stay out of this hot debate.

jump_ace

 

[TheWizard]

I won't explain why its just my opinion, and I'll try to stay out of this hot debate.

That was the whole point of the thread, though...

It's a matter of opinion and I (and maybe the others, too) would like to know what the opinions are.

I think we are mature enough not to flame each others or turn this into a "I am right - you are wrong" type of thread.

So, don't be afraid of saying what you think, because I would be really interested in hearing it.

The Wizard.

 

[Casio]

Personally, I've never used it. Not because I think it's wrong, but I can't bebothered moving all those sliders back and forth.

But it's in the game, so why not use it? It's not like only a few people can use it, everybody can.

It's exactly like an oil change in a way, and everyone doesn't say 'I wouldn't do an oil change, gives more power, that's not fair'. If it's in the game, you can use it.

 

[TheWizard]

But it's in the game, so why not use it? It's not like only a few people can use it, everybody can.

It's exactly like an oil change in a way, and everyone doesn't say 'I wouldn't do an oil change, gives more power, that's not fair'. If it's in the game, you can use it.

That's exactly how I see it, too.

If it's there, why not using it?
I mean, all the other settings are there too, and they are used. You could say: lowering the car gives you more stability and makes the car easier to drive (most of the time). So, are you not going to lower the car anymore, just because it gives you an advantage? Everybody can lower their car, just as much as everybody can use the tranny trick - I am sure 99% of the people here know what it is and how it works.

The Wizard.

 

[Iceman]

Gor GT3 this would have been a good debate but as I see it in GT4, it's a null point. I havn't seen any evidence that it provides an acceleration advantage. Tuning the gears in the normal is faster and seems to produce the same results to me...

 

[Tyre King]

Well here's my point of view,

Purely on the 'illegality' of the tranny-trick, it would be impossible to police anyway, so there is no reason to ban it's use.

As to the morality of using it, if we were asked not to, that's a different philosophical question entirely which I don't think any of us would want to get in to. And it would entirely hinge on IF there is a quantifiable advantage, or not.

Which brings us onto.........

As to it's effectiveness, opinions are divided (I wouldn't say that there is a right answer or wrong one)

Some claim that, yes, it gives you the equivelent of a close-ratio box with an adjustable final gear to suit the desired top speed, so it will improve acceleration.

Others claim the the increased number of gear changes brought about by the close-ratio nature of this setting, reduces the acceleration 'over-all' because when you are changing gear, you are not driving the wheels.

To answer this question it would take someone to B-spec bob some 0-400m tests on the test track, with and without the tranny-trick, and to do some analysis.
I say to use B-spec bob, because the console will be (hopefully) more consistant in starting methodology.
(Edit: can't be done in B-spec, so did it myself, read later post)
In conclusion,
I don't know if it works or not, it should be up to the individual driver's preference whether to use it or not, and there is no method of enforcing a ban anyway.

So keep it legal!

Neil

 

[Drew22]

What Neil said!! No really he described my view perfectly, thanks for saving me a bunch of keystrokes.

 

[Tyre King]

No problem!

Was just speaking what is left of my mind!

Neil

 

[Small_Fryz]

I use it and would love to keep it legal.

 

[hOt6o4bOi]

ive never used it...never will... so for it to be called practical... why is it called the "tranny trick" ???

it aint a big deal to me tho... keep it... i just dont use it

 

[T13R]

I use it and would love to keep it legal.

But does it really help that much? Like it used to in GT3, or is it very minimal? Or does it only work sometimes?

In any case, I think it should be legal as everyone can do those changes if they want to or not. So if it is an advantage, everyone can benefit from it, if it isn't, then no big deal.

 

[SimRaceDriver]

If you wanna go through each gear setting manually to achive the same results...go for it! 👍

Otherwise, think of this way...
Since you're able to adjust any or all of the gear settings when you're racing in GT mode and you've added a full custom transmission, then why does it matter 'how' you adjust those settings..whether it's adjusting 'final gear' first or the other way around? The settings are there to be adjusted any way the end-user/gamer/racer sees fit..otherwise, PD wouldn't have allowed the settings to be adjusted in the first place!

End of poll!

 

[TheWizard]

If you wanna go through each gear setting manually to achive the same results...go for it! 👍

Exactly. That's how I see it: I am too lazy to figure out what Auto settings AND what Final Ratio work for what track. Applying the tranny trick (which I call this way only because it's the only way I have heard it being called, not because I personally consider it a trick) allows me to only worry about adjusting ONE thing: the Final Ratio, because Auto is permanently stuck at 1, now.

Therefore, despite it being really useful or not on the track - I was not even aware that in GT3 it made that much of a difference, as I joined only for the last 6 races of the GT3 WRS, and before I really did not know much about Gran Turismo - I find it useful because I am too lazy to figure out the transmission settings that work the best.

If I use the tranny trick, this takes care of 50% of the transmission settings. Then I take the car on the track and it's just a matter of adjusting the Final Ratio to where you (almost) hit the rev limiter in the highest gear at the end of the longest straight.

That's why I use it, to be honest. Too lazy to figure out the settings.

The Wizard.

 

[Sphinx]

I agree with Ben, I've yet to see any clear evidence that it works in GT4 anyway.
As for keeping it legal, yeah why not. The reason why it was made legal so long ago was down to it being deemed a trick and not a bug, unlike the reverse gear trick

 

[shockwaveracing]

never even knew what is was til this thread, and i doubt it will make me faster so i won't be using it...

 

[Tyre King]

Ok, I have done some testing.

The car used is a Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi Ver.V'98
The track is the Las Vegas Strip
The tyres are Racing super-soft's

Reasons:
1 the car is 4 wheel drive
2 the track is perfect for testing acceleration (D'oh it's a drag strip! )
3 these tyres will provide the best grip and therefore take wheelspin/traction control issues out of the mix somewhat)

The Car is STANDARD apart from a F/C gearbox (pretty nesc for the test, me thinks)
and the tyres , obviously.
Traction control is set to 3 (to keep wheelspin down)
Other driving aids off.

At the lights throttle at 100% (to take operator error out of the equation)
The 1 st set of times is with gears set to Auto 11 (with final @ 4.444 'default')
(auto 11 = final x 6th gear....4.444x0.787=3.497428)
In manual
13.791,13.755,13.697 with an average of 13.748
In Auto
13.697,13.827,13.734 with an average of 13.752

The second set are with the tranny trick done as described post #1, the final was set to 3.536 (3.536x0.989=3.497104)
In manual
13.873,13.883,13.893 with an average of 13.883
In Auto
13.873,13.943,13.870 with an average of 13.895

Now with those figures, and I'm not saying that they are either ideal or gospel, it would seem the the 'tranny trick' is actually 'slightly' slower.

The gear ratio's were worked out to be as close as possible in the 6th gear range, and I am aware that in this test 6th gear was not touched in either case, but it was a convienient way to level things out simply.

I am sure that someone else could do a test and it would have the opposite outcome to mine. and it might even be more detailed,

But I think it would still only be a fractional advantage either way.

So keep it legal, why not?

Neil

 

[Tyre King]

I agree with Ben, I've yet to see any clear evidence that it works in GT4 anyway.
As for keeping it legal, yeah why not. The reason why it was made legal so long ago was down to it being deemed a trick and not a bug, unlike the reverse gear trick

Enlighten? Anybody?

Purely so i know what not to do!

Neil

 

[Sphinx]

I've said too much already

 

[Tyre King]

Ah!
Sphinx mate, my curiosity's up now.

I'll just dig for it now, so you might as well spill the beans!

Neil

 

[Iceman]

Well, in GT3 you could hit reverse in some high revving cars and it would upshift while keeping the revs much higher than normal shifting. I don't think it was found until late in GT3's life but it caused quite a stir.

 

[KLR142]

I didn't vote, but I'll say this, I use something different all-together... Used it on GT2 first, when I found I could get down the track faster. Main reason I like it, is because it gives me close gears, and taller lower gears, thus making them actually usefull. It's confusing and takes a good bit of patience moving the damn ratios around though. The speed up option with the R1 and R2 buttons in GT2 helped a LOT. Move the final somewhere, move auto to 1, move final to lowest number possible(usually 2.5 in GT4). Then, take it out on the track, and rinse and repeat with different initial final drive ratios until you get something that fits the track. Then sometimes I'll just bump the final up from the 2.5 setting if I'm close and just need something a TAD shorter. I don't know if it's faster than something else, but it's the way I like it.

The gears are there, do what you want with them, arrive where you want to be, however you want to arrive there... It's not a trick, it's a tuning tool.

Don't forget that when you're making gear changes matters as well, and sometimes you have to tweak whatever you've got around that... I've had to lengthen and shorten other gears before to work with the track...

 

[Tyre King]

Well, in GT3 you could hit reverse in some high revving cars and it would upshift while keeping the revs much higher than normal shifting. I don't think it was found until late in GT3's life but it caused quite a stir.

Thanx Ben,

I was just curious.

Anyway it's pretty difficult to hit reverse on a DFP, so i now know that I won't be doing it!

Neil

 

[Kent]

Now, first off, I really feel like this thread should be in the GT4 forum or merged with the appropriate thread in the OLR school (although the GT4 forum for Settings is ideal).

That said...
My opinion...

I don't use the tranny trick.
I also never use the auto slider.

If you purchase a full custom transmission and go to settings...

Move the auto slider one space in either direction.
The final drive ratio does not change, but each of the gears change their individual numbers.
Each time you change the auto slider a single space, those individual gears change while the FD stays the same.

On the other hand, take your stock full custom tranny and move the Final Drive Ratio and the gears' positions in the display change accordingly, but the individual gear numbers and auto slider never change.

So, being that my philosophy is to try staying as close to stock as possible, I use only the final drive ratio to adjust.

Then, after getting as close as I can to the ideal, I finish off with individual gear adjustments when needed (such as the extremely tall 6th gear on a vette).

This keeps the car close to stock in most respects and doesn't fall short on the custom tuning side.

Regarding the Tranny Trick specifically...
I find the tranny trick to be a mystery in some senses.

Although the numbers would be different, you can do the tranny trick by moving the auto slider and final drive ratio slider in either direction.
Of course they still have to be used as counter measures of one-another, but in the end, you can even out the changes made to either by adjust the other.

This leaves me in a position where I would rather just keep with my own philosophies than gamble with the myth of a perfect tranny.

At the same time though, there have been races in the past where the tranny trick seemed to work really well.

Then agian, that was GT3 and usually the increased speed of an opponent could have been due to a better lap in general.

So basically, I don't tranny trick.
I have my own semi-logical way of tuning a tranny that I think works very well. 👍

Also, pending on what flat-out thinks, or what exist in the tuning forum, I think this thread may need to be moved.

 

[Tedehur]

There is a sticky thread in the OLR section concerning the gear trick, posted by boombexus in 2004. (Actually all thread in the OLR Racing School are sticky threads )
I don't know if both have to be merged, and I don't know if I can move it myself.
Kent, as a super mod can you do this and check with boom first ?