Setup tips: Audi R8 @ 'Ring

Discussion in 'GT4 Tuning' started by Seismica, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. Seismica

    Seismica Premium

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    Hi,

    I'm currently racing in the Formula GT event, and i'm up to race 12, which is at the Nurburgring Nordschleife.

    I'm using an Audi R8, and so far it's been no problem beating the opponents. On some tracks, such as Motegi, It hasn't been on the pace of the AI but I have won on pit strategy. At others, it's been easy victories, all for 200 points.

    The Nurburgring I would regard as one of the easier tracks, mainly because the AI are terrible at it. But in this car it's... rather difficult.

    It's chassis is kaput, so it keeps snapping at the slightest bump. The tyre wear here isn't good, hard/hard tyres has lasted me longer than the AI in every race so far, but the long laps here means I can only go around 2.5 laps, meaning I've had to change to Front: Hard, Rear: Super Hard to be able to stay out for that 3rd lap, which has affected the balance even further.

    I'm after a setup which allows for consistency, to drive through the corners without the car snapping on me.

    Used chassis
    Front/Rear: R2/R1

    Anybody got any setup tips, or even a setup of their own they would like to share with me?

    I've been fiddling around myself for the past hour or two, increasing the ride height, softening the suspensions and the dampers, but i'm useless at tuning :dopey:
     
  2. Robbks

    Robbks

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    If you haven't read through Scaff's Tuning Guide (stickied at the top of the section)
    i suggest you do so.

    i had similar issues at the 'ring in an IS200 Lexus,
    i.e it was setup nice and stiff and low for flat tracks, but it took a lot of work to get it to handle on the 'ring without bucking itself off the track.
    I had to increase the ride-height substantially to stop it bottoming out and a lot of work with the damper settings to get it to handle.
    I didn;t have to adjust springs that much as the car was well balanced and would turn nicely
    i also backed off the LSD strength a little which helped to settle the car, with a trade off in a little more wheelspin. (i don;t use traction control in lower powered cars unless completely necessary, a little spin can help to steer the car from the rear end too)
     
  3. FishforRent

    FishforRent Premium

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    996
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    This is what I used for 200pts there:

    Audi R8 - HP 7?? at Setup Screen - Stock Turbo - Nos @ 10 (½ left at end of race; not necessary)
    SET UP:
    Tyres - R2/R2 (can switch to R3/R2 but didn’t; actually going to R3s up front makes it more twitchy)
    Brake 6,5 Aids 0,0,3
    Trans - (1)3.402 (2) 2.318 (3) 1.756 (4) 1.403 (5) 1.144 (6) 0.948 (F) 3.250 (Auto) 18 [ topped out around 220mph]
    Spring 9.0 / 10.0 Ride Ht 65 / 66
    Bound 4 /4 Rebound 7 /6
    Camber 2.1 / 1.1 Toe 1 / -1
    Bars 4 / 4 Wings 60 / 85 LSD 15, 30, 10
    Weight 0 @ -10
     
  4. PF

    PF

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    733
    Is there a reason you're not using a chassis refresh? The race can't be long enough to warp it so why are you running it without? Personal 'rules' re game finishing or something?
    Sadly, I can't offer much help as I haven't driven the car too much or tried the series at all.
    However, I have gleaned from this site that a good draft down the long straight will save heaps in both tyre wear and fuel consumption. Even in these relatively short races pit strategy is crucial, though you seem to have this under control.
    Good luck brother, let us know how it goes.
     
  5. FishforRent

    FishforRent Premium

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    996
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    As an added suggestion, if your hunting the 200pts in the FGT Championship at the Nurb may I offer the following excerpt from my effort there as well (in a FGT car):

    Nurb’ - 200pts
    Black FGT- HP 904
    Time 1:28:56.203
    Fast Lap 5:36.191
    Mov: 1:58.xxx secs
    Pit - every 2 laps
    AI Pit - 2 laps
    SET UP:
    Tyres - R3/R3
    Brake 5,5 Aids 0,0,6
    Trans - (1st)6.226(2nd)4.465(3rd)3.437(4th)2.774(5th)2.283(6th)1.909(7th)1.610(F)3.750(auto)1 4[topped out around 220ish mph]
    Spring 10.5 / 10.0 Ride Ht 53 / 54
    Bound 2 /5 Rebound 3 /5
    Camber 2.1 / 1.0 Toe -1 / 0
    Bars x / x Wings 50 / 73 LSD 12, 39, 17
    Weight 175 @ -27

    After an incredible opening lap, where the sensible thing to do is hang back and wait for the AI to lose their tyres and attack on the second lap, I chose to battle from the outset. Heavy fuel and cold tyres be damned. And it was wonderful! Intense action that saw each competitor fight for positions for the whole lap. The AI behaved semi-respectfully and I had the lead as we passed the pit in sign, only to be bumped and shuffled back to second as we crossed the start/finish line. As the AI began to increase the pace we were nose to tail heading toward _______ (the accident strickened it from my memory), were it all went wrong. Massive sideswipe from the third place car that sent me spinning (at 195mph) violently through the grass, sand, off a couple of walls and finally to a stop face the wrong way. Dazed I turned my arse around and began the chase. At the first stop I was 19 seconds behind. By the next stop I left the pits behind the leader by ~12secs still and I slowly continued to track the field down. Carefully I approached and passed each car over the next 2 lap stint. By the third stop I had entered and left the pits in the lead and the race was effectively over. Each stop saw 31 units of fuel and tyres as I pounded out the remaining distance. Great race overall. The setup I had was best for a light fuel load and the field was just not up to the pace. Thoroughly enjoyable.

    (.02, if you are still troubled with the R8)
     
  6. Seismica

    Seismica Premium

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    Thanks for the help guys :tup: I will try your setup a bit later FishforRent :)

    You can't refresh the chassis mid-championship. And I want to get this one over and done with rather than throw the race and come back later. GT5 is out soon and i'm off to uni next week, so I wanted to give GT4 a good sendoff by completing the F1 championship all for 200 points.

    Was fiddling about with the suspension myself earlier, and found a fairly consistent setup but it was quite slow compared to some of the previous ones I tried (But still 5+ seconds faster per lap than the AI on a fairly clean run). The damper settings I just can't get right. The fact the chassis is worn makes it a lot harder to tune because the car becomes more unpredictable.

    I find it fun to maximise my pace in the race using the practice sessions. Normally I only do one stint to see what sort of pit strategy i'm looking at. But here, it's all about setup, when I haven't needed to touch it for any of the other races.

    Anyway, i'll have another go at it later on, i'm too tired to start it right now after staying up all last night.
     
  7. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

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    The following is the suspension setup that I used for my 200 point win with the Audi R8 at the 'Ring:

    Horsepower: about 813
    Tires: R2/R2
    Brakes: 8/8
    Springs: 11.5/11.5
    Ride: 68/68
    Bound: 3/5
    Rebound: 4/6
    Camber: 2.2/1.1
    Toe: 1/-1
    Stab: 4/4
    Auto slider: # 19
    Aids: 0/0/4
    Downforce: 58/83
    Ltd Slip: 12/35/15
    Ballast: 20, -5 to the front

    I suspect that FishforRent's tune is better than mine, but you can give it a try if you wish.

    Respectfully,
    GTsail
     
  8. Seismica

    Seismica Premium

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    Both setups you guys gave don't really suit my driving style. They both add a bit of understeer in the medium speed corners. I then tried with the super hard rears to get the benefit of the 3 less pit stops and they didn't handle them too well. So I just had a mess around myself and found a setup I kind of liked.

    Just started the race, but made several costly mistakes on the first lap attempting to overtake the lead car. At the start of lap 2 I was 12 seconds behind (Add a few to that because i gained around 4-5 on the straight).

    I made more mistakes on the second lap, and was ready to quit... But then I started to catch up. The AI is faster in the race than in practice, and so they push their tyres harder, meaning they became worn much faster. I overtook all of the AI and then drove past the pits. This race is going to be a walk, even if I make 20+ seconds of mistakes each lap. I didn't need the consistency :lol: :rolleyes:
     
  9. FishforRent

    FishforRent Premium

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    996
    Location:
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    Fair enough. My style 'generally' relies on weight transfer, which is why it's alittle soft, then I use the toe and LSD settings to help get the rear end around. I would be interested to see your set-up for reference anyway. Not many race-car setups are around for these LMP cars. So I am always interested in what others are using.

    Let us know how you make out anyway.
     
  10. Seismica

    Seismica Premium

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    I won the race, by a margin of something like 2 min 30 seconds. It was quite easy after the first stint, but there were still parts where I had to brake or slow down which are usually taken flat just to avoid the car snapping on me.

    Your setup wasn't bad, I just personally think the ride height was a little low and that meant there wasn't enough weight transfer. It just didn't feel right for me :)

    I'll post the setup tomorrow, but it's not that good to be honest, I was getting a lot of lift off oversteer, and when i'm trying to be cautious that's not welcome. It's good in the medium speed corners though, which is what most of the Nurburgring is.
     
  11. sukerkin

    sukerkin

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    Glad you found a solution, Seismica.

    Sadly, in some cars, when the chassis is worn out the handling does become unpredictable and there is little you can do about it except change your driving to deal with it. This is most apparent in the long races, where you will find the odd effect of the chassis seemingly going through the 'wear cycle' more than once i.e. it will come good again for a time and then degrade once more.

    Most peculiar :D.
     
  12. sukerkin

    sukerkin

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    By the way, for the greatest challenge in the Formula series, use the FGT itself rather than one of the Le Mans cars.

    It is a real treat to try and get the FGT to compete with a field of FGT's when you are running Ballast and low Downforce to get 200 A-Spec :).
     
  13. Seismica

    Seismica Premium

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    If I had an FGT... :p

    I simply can't be bothered to do the Nurburgring 24hr :D

    Plus, I bought an Audi R8 just for this championship. It pays for itself after all :)

    It's probably the most rewarding series i've competed in. I actually have to work to extract a tenth here and a tenth there at some circuits (Motegi is the only one where the AI has truly beaten me on pace). Next race is El Capitan. This is the single worst circuit for the AI, so I expect it to be a breeze. But i'm going to assume this car isn't going to like the bumps...
     
  14. FishforRent

    FishforRent Premium

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    996
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    Beware of Suzuka as well. The AI are at their most bossiest at that final round. I found the R8 to be at a disadvantage because I needed to be among them for at least a third of the race, especially the opening stint (on cold tyres and heavy fuel) where I needed to stay with the leader until he pits. That will be a challenge, at least it was for me. Good luck.

    @superkin: I agree with your appreciation for the series for 200pt with an FGT. I've done it at least twice. It reallly gets my adrenalin going. Very quick races. I also enjoyed a variation of your setup, which is, as Dotini states, "a work of art." :tup::tup:

    Edit: minus Motegi SS, still used the R8. :yuck:
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2010
  15. Seismica

    Seismica Premium

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    I've heard Suzuka is the most difficult, but i'm fairly confident I can do well. My main problem will be the AI bumping into the back of me all the time, so I may have to go to Super Hard rears to get the extra pitstop advantage and just let the AI ahead on the first couple of stints.

    Motegi SS was horrible, mainly because the AI were matching my times. It was the roadcourse where they outpaced me though, i've noticed that rabbits exist even in this championship where it's supposed to be quite equal. The Speedway course was a breeze after the first pitstops. The AI shred their tyres ridiculously quickly there so it's not too difficult as the race progresses.

    So I have El Capitan and Suzuka left, what is race 14?

    EDIT:

    My setup for the 'Ring was:

    782 bhp

    Front/Rear: R2/R1

    Brakes: 5/5

    Suspension:
    Spring rates: 11.0/11.0
    Ride Height: 80/80
    Damper Bounce: 3/4
    Damper rebound: 4/5
    Camber: 2.1/1.1
    Toe: 1/-1
    Stabiliser: 4/4​

    Transmission: Auto set #21

    Downforce: 63/88

    LSD:
    Initial: 10
    Acc: 40
    Dec: 10​

    All aids off.

    It was derived from one of the setups above. It's not fast, but it handles most of the bumps at the 'Ring well. My fastest lap was only around 5:48 with a couple of mistakes. Warning: This setup does not like grass. Do not touch the grass or you're going to have a bad day.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2010
  16. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

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    Nice going Seismica!

    I'm glad you finally got the Audi R8 tuned to your liking, so you could take down the FGT's at the 'Ring.

    I've been following your progress with the Audi R8 against the FGT with interest since I will shortly need to run the Championship in my June Society game.

    I intend to use either the Audi R8 or a FGT, but have not decided which.

    I am currently 5 1/2 hours into a run at the 24 hour Nurburgring race so I can get a Formula Gran Turismo.

    You mention that your Audi R8 chassis has turned to mush, which makes things difficult.

    Do you think that likewise, the FGT's you are racing against, also have chassis that have turned mushy, and are therefore somewhat slower than in earlier races?

    Respectfully,
    GTsail
     
  17. FishforRent

    FishforRent Premium

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    996
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    FGT race 14 is Fuji '05, which is pretty easy due to the AI taking the final series of turns very slowly. I, too have seen rabbits in the FGT series. Also at Motegi Road but also at Laguna, Seoule and even Suzuka. I never thought it might be chassis wear. I just assumed the program balances out the field throughout the series. Each time I've ran the series the field is usually separated by few points, with sometimes two or three of them having equal points at the end. Hmmm wonder.

    GTsail - I am currently 9hrs into a 200pt Nurb24 race. Hope to finish by Sat. Good luck with yours.
     
  18. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

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    Seismica -
    Did you end up running the entire race on R2/R1 tires? Three or four lap stints?

    I'm now in the same boat that you were in. I'm running the FGT Championship in an Audi R8, and the chassis is completely mush at Nurburgring! I've made 4 attempts at the 'Ring with no sucess due to major spinouts. My Audi just doesn't like the bumps now that its chassis is completely worn out.

    I've been running my Audi with the Aids at 0/0/2 for improved rear tire wear, but notice that you have turned them off. Do you think that the Audi handles the 'Ring better with no aids at all?

    I'm able to stay with the FGT for most of the lap without any problem, its just in a few bumpy areas, the Audi gets completely un-settled, and the only way to stay on the track is to actually apply the brakes! Just feathering the throttle sometimes is not enough!

    For fun and aggravation, once, I used R3 tires to qualify in 1st and then got run off the track as each FGT comes up from behind on lap one!

    Respectfully,
    GTsail
     
  19. Seismica

    Seismica Premium

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    I can't remember how many stints it was, but I think I pitted on every 3rd lap. Yes, I ran R2/R1 for the whole race.

    The way I worked it, I practised quite a lot before I even attempted the race. There were some sections that were so unpredictable in parts that I had to brake, where it was usually flat out if the chassis is ok. So yes it sounds like you are doing the same, having to apply the brakes to keep the car on the track.

    You don't need to be faster, because if you go one lap longer than the AI you're on track to be much further ahead by the end of the race because they have to pit twice more than you. Infact, for the first stint you may aswell let them all past as all they do is ram into you on some of the high speed corners that they can take flat and you can't.

    Generally, I work around the driving aids by changing my style. I think with traction control, there is a point where it cuts out and the car snaps. But if you turn the aids off and practice with it, you learn to handle it.

    There is no way could I have done this race first time, it was never about setup, it was more about learning to push the car within it's limits without making mistakes. The pit strategy does the rest.
     
  20. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

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    I've done it! I took down those pesky FGT's at Nurburgring, as part of the FGT Championship!

    Thanks for all your suggestions Seismica:tup:

    I did some more practice and then I strapped on my helmet and charged off after the FGT's.

    After some more tweaking, my Audi R8 Race Car suspension settings were as follows:

    HP: 825 (a oil change was performed just before the race)
    Tires: R2/R2
    Brakes: 6/6
    Springs: 10.5/10.5
    Ride height: 70/70
    Shock bound: 3/4
    Shock rebound: 3/4
    Camber: 2.2/1.1
    Toe: 1/-1
    Stabilizers: 4/4
    Auto slider: 21
    Downforce: 60/85
    Ltd slip: 15/35/20
    Ballast: 37, (-5 to the front)
    Aids: 2/2/2

    The above settings yielded another 200 points for my Audi R8:)

    The race went fairly well with only a few minor spinouts. I just throttled back at most of the bad places, so the Audi generally stayed under control. I first tried the Aids at 0/0/0, but had a major spinout on lap two, so I reset and tried the Aids as above. With TCS at 2, I could get three good laps out of the R2's on the rear, so once I settled in, the race went quite well. The Audi understeers with the above settings, but I felt it was a reasonable price to pay since the Audi seemed to handle almost as if the chassis wasn't completely worn out.

    Twice the FGT's had me down by about 12 seconds, but I pressed on with the hope that the FGT's would come back to me, and they did! The rabbit of the field was a red FGT, however, everything went badly for it on lap 6. I passed the red FGT going down the long straight to take the lead on lap 6 (knowing that we would both be pitting). The red FGT caught me as I was negotiating the Hohenrain esses (I was really slowing down early just as I would go under the bridge, because otherwise, I would have a major spinout). We battled side by side towards the pits, and I made it in first. However, all this banging/paint transfer had pushed the red FGT past the pit entrance. So the red FGT decided to continue on.:dunce: This compromised its race, as you can imagine! I came out of the pits in second (about 15 seconds down), and caught the poor FGT as we got to Adenaur Forst. The rest of the field also caught the red FGT on this lap, so he was relegated to last place for the rest of the race, perhaps a full minute behind the rest of the field.

    Enjoy the racing!
    GTsail
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2010