Shob takes his GTO to a track! (now with a lil vette talk!)

[ShobThaBob]

Copy and paste from another website since it's a long writeup and I'm lazy. Had tons of fun!

I was debating really hard whether or not I actually wanted to post this (both here and elsewhere.) I had my first real track and racing experience a few months ago at texas motor speedway with www.chumpcar.com. It was pretty badass. I didn't break anything, felt comfortable on the track, and put down respectable times when compared to the guy on the team who makes a living by racing cars.

So I keep myself up to date on when track days (and nights?) are coming up for a couple tracks in my general vicinity. The only ones which are really accessible are MSR Houston and Houston Raceway Park. The former Jared has posted about before - impressive garage/lounge facilities with a full length circuit + gokart circuits, and the latter has a small oval and dragstrip. They 'often' hold drift events.

I struggled really hard on MSR for a wiiide variety of reasons. First, it took me a few laps to just get used to what was coming up next. Second, I was afraid to really slide the car. As you all know, the GTO is big, powerful, and LOVES to oversteer. From my experience, the feedback from tires, steering wheel, and body roll/rotation are spot on and don't leave you assuming the car is going to do something which it isn't. Unfortunately, the cars size and weight mean that it understeers a bit when you're going into slower corners (grip for high speed sweepers was more than adequate.) The legitimate way to combat this is to add throttle and deal with a little bit of oversteer. It's also fun. It has many other benefits too! You keep your speed up by less braking. You keep traction control off (which again uses less braking), and your right foot dictates where your nose is going to be pointed and set up for the next corner.

But alas, I was a lowjo. Near the end of the night I had traction control off, but just couldn't bring myself to stop braking and just throttle oversteer. I couldn't get it out of my head that I was going to be driving the car home and that smurfing it up was simply not an option.

I also never FULLY floored it and went into full braking on the back and front straights. Aside from not wanting to smurf the car up by spinning into the grass, I also didn't want to completely obliterate my brakes. I know how fast the car can go in a straight line - plenty. I also wanted to spend more time behind cars that I knew were faster than me in the technical section (turns 11-8, we were going reverse course) so that I could see how they tackled it. Choosing which apexes to hit, which to miss, and experimenting with different ways to carry as much speed through the sweeper heading to back straight was all very much fun. So yeah, I spent a lot of time coasting on the straights so that I wouldn't get pointed by to pass the Miatas that were in front of me.

In closing, I had a bunch of fun. I wish I had more balls. Maybe next time!

e - adding in videos. They were just uploaded so it may take a bit before HD is available. Hopefully I did it right. Also sorry about the camera shifting around.



I sure would've loved to let loose a bit more on the straights, but I just couldn't convince myself that the fun in taking it to 140 or 150 would be worth the heavy wear on the brakes. I don't think I ever got above 125.





Mmmm. HD goodness. The third video has me pushing it a bit more in the corners with traction control off. It's pretty hard to see when exactly I'm sliding or understeering because of the ****** perspective, but oh well. The only thing that really frustrated the smurf out of me was having an automatic. damn thing wanted to piddle around in 4th the whole time. I resorted to selecting gears manually, but that just kept me in 2nd most of the time. Really not all that great.

Big, heavy, automatic, DD with lots of power. Really great for the road, not so much on the track if you're not willing to slide it a bit. Since there's a higher chance that some of you GTP guys are more comfortable on the track then I must know - how do you get past the "I could screw up my car" mentality? Realistically I'm not going to be going so fast that body panels get messed up, just a little spin onto the grass. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I need a miata.

 

[spauldj3800]

You running a trans cooler?

The 4L60e autos aren't the strongest items out there, I know of a few that have gone without much abuse behind a stock LS1.

 

[niky]

Since there's a higher chance that some of you GTP guys are more comfortable on the track then I must know - how do you get past the "I could screw up my car" mentality?

Turn off your brain.

But realistically... if your car is a daily driver, you don't want to stop worrying about messing up. If you go in all Banzai with no worry about whether the car will be in one piece tomorrow, you will push too hard for too many laps, start frying things like transmissions (the tranny cooler idea is a good one), brakes and cooling systems, and possibly lose a suspension part over a particularly high curb.

Go at your own pace, and don't mind that other people are faster than you. With a completely stock car, you can do around three flat-out laps with no issues... then cool it down.

If you want to do this more often, better brake fluid, better brake pads and a transmission cooler (and possibly an oil cooler) should be on your shopping list. (aftermarket brakes... 50:50... what's really important are the pads and fluid)

You'll want durable tires, but not specifically the stickiest you can find. A good middling performance tire (not an ultra-high performance tire) will have smooth and early break-away and good communication... breaking traction slowly enough and at low enough speeds that you won't have a hard time reining it in.

Sure, super-sticky tires, suspension mods and power mods will help you go faster... but save that for when you're comfortable with the car and with yourself out on track.

 

[spauldj3800]

To add to the above - keep an eye on power steering fluid temps - the reservoirs are known to crack after a bit of track work.

 

[Paulie]

A 4spd auto like that may be good for drag racing, but it certainly won't be good for track use. Throttle response and gear selection will always be big issues, but with a manual you'll also get that added engine breaking which would have helped pull the nose tighter in those slower corners.

 

[ShobThaBob]

Thanks for the responses. I've never really been too keen on modifying my cars heavily, but I've never really spent much time on the track. I don't realistically see myself modifying the GTO either. A relatively small amount of money could go a long way towards having a dedicated track car that I think would be a lot more satisfying in all departments, especially the "I have to drive this home" bit. The more thought I put into it, the more likely I am to not take the GTO to the track anymore.

 

[Paulie]

So buy another GTO with a manual and make it a track car.

 

[astrosdude91]

I thought that looked like MSR Houston. Another Houston guy!

 

[ShobThaBob]

OH yeah, longpost time.

Took the Corvette Grand Sport to the local road course - MSR Houston. It was a beautiful day. Lots of rain was forecast, but none ended up showing up, just lots of clouds. There was a decent mix of cars/people/cliques that showed up and all were extremely friendly chatterboxes. There were initially only going to be two groups scheduled to go at the top and bottom of every hour, but a lot of people signed up, so they added a third and track time was cut to 20 minutes an hour. Not too big of deal. I do have video, but it's honestly pretty horrendous and unwatchable. I should've spent a little more time beforehand trying to mount it properly so it didn't jiggle around as much. Oh well.

The car itself was an absolute dream. I don't want to liken it TOO much like a video game, but I immediately got a sense of what the car was generally capable of. The inputs, responses, and movements I expected never came as a shock and were vaguely familiar.

The first two stints I did with traction control on. Since the car doesn't belong to me, I was extremely careful and spent the day slowly getting faster. A lot of guys out there were very worried and boastful about passing people. I can understand that a bit to some degree if you're familiar with your car, but that simply wasn't a goal of mine in the least. The vette is incredibly responsive to all inputs and can be as gradual or frantic as you decide. It went a long way towards making me feel relaxed with what I wanted to do in upcoming corners.

The biggest issue that I had was traction control. I was tripping it in a few corners, and sometimes I knew I had stepped out a bit, and other times I was a little befuddled. Regardless, I took mental notes of when it was happening and was sure to be extra careful on those bits when I went out with no TC. I think it's important to note here that the other cars I've had on track were not proper sports cars. The G35 had decent balance, great brakes, but skinnyhard tires. The Thunderbird I raced was very heavy and did not turn well. The GTO is a barge that is more comfortable drifting than taking a proper line on track. The Vette is miles ahead of all of them on all fronts. The brakes were outstanding, the power is self explanatory, and the amount of grip it has is seemingly never ending.

Because of when TC was kicking in, I thought I was pushing it a lot harder than I was in certain places. The first lap of the third stint made it plainly obvious that I could go around corners much faster than I had been before. Into that last stint, I finally got to a point where I was comfortable getting on the gas a little earlier, carrying a few more MPH in corners, and pushing back my braking points. I finally got used to threshold braking without the fear of roasting anything or doing it too late and ending up in the grass. It might not seem like a big deal, in fact, it sounds like it should be pretty self explanatory. It's what's supposed to be happening. For an amateur, I don't think it's the norm. The satisfaction and happiness gleaned from reaching that point can't be understated. The mental checklist of things to do when approaching a corner - how fast, where to point the nose, when to brake, when to ease onto the accelerator, what you did last time, what worked and didn't - that constant stream going through your brain coupled with the constant G forces communicating to you through your butt, back and arms is what racing is all about.

Getting my brain to that point was just such a great feeling. I know I didn't come anywhere close to what the car is capable of. I'm okay with that. What makes it okay is that I got into a mental space where, over time, I would be able to extract everything I could from the car without further instruction.

The most important thing I learned was that I don't need TC for that car. As long as I approach the limits for the car in each corner gradually, I won't do something overly stupid which lands me far off the track or in danger of messing something up mechanically. Big deal. Second thing I learned was that Corvette seats are awful. They're fine for daily use, but they really offer next to no bolstering and butt/back support. You're really on your own to hold on. It was really disappointing and a lot of extra work. I can see where the critics for this come from. The cupholders are magnificent. Really top of the line and grippy as hell. Good stuff. Also - the brake feel and lack of fade is amazing. I didn't notice a single difference in the car driving it home.

Since this is a pretty long post in and of itself, I'll end this here and post pictures and talk about the other people/cars that were there in the next post.

 

[ShobThaBob]

The Vette at Bucee's beforehand.

One hell of a Mustang. The owners seemed pretty busy with it and a vette to talk, but I was pretty interested in just what it was used for. You typically don't take a car like a Mustang GT, gut it, throw slicks on it, throw side exhaust on it, and race it. I was observing, but it didn't seem fast at all and honestly sounded like total garbage. I really hate to rag on other peoples stuff, but this car came across to me like a bit of a wreck. I'd be interested to know what spec it was built for and what all is really done to it.

I spent a good 30min on the way towards the track with this gentleman and his 1M. He had a full set of slicks in the car which he swapped on and swapped back off. He was in my group of drivers, but was always on the other side of the track from me. A few of the other guys mentioned passing him pretty easily, so I got the impression that he really wasn't using the slicks or the car nearly as far as he could've. Very pretty nonetheless.

Very chatty and friendly fellow owns this Z. I did a quick google to see if anyone else posted video from the day, and he had. He's been to lots of track days and DEs. From the first two stints, I got the impression that he was kinda stuck up and prissy about the on-track etiquette of other people, but on the 3rd stint I found out that his grievances were warranted.

Very pretty and LOUD Mustang race car.

This Z was a thing of absolute beauty. The engine bay was immaculate and the interior was great too. Very purposeful racing seat+harness. The driver could really go at it as well. It was running barely DOT legal semislicks and could go like crazy. The driver was impressively fast with his car.

Poor bimmer had a nasty hiccup and ended up vomiting all over the place. Very fast car. Sounded wonderful.

Lemons mustang

Supercharged MR2. Really great looking example. It was mint all around and it was the owners first time taking it out. He was incredibly friendly and had a great time.

The owner of the Boxster has a lot of experience on track and was extremely fast. I got the sense that he's an instructor at DEs. His friend, the owner of the GT3 I didn't bother getting a decent picture of, was comically European. It's like they were directly out of family guy. I feel bad saying it, because they were somewhat friendly in the "oh these Americans" type of way, but I got an odd vibe. They were also in the "911 is the only true Porsche" type camp. The amount of disgust on their faces when I mentioned that I really liked the FR Porsches was a bit appalling. Also, the guy driving the GT3 was slow. Verrrrry slow.

So there's this trio. The IS300, JDM RX7, and G35. The owners were incredibly friendly, talkative, and cool car guys. They also were much too zealous on track and the subject of several under the breath complaints about etiquette, safety, and knowing you cars limits. None of them really paid attention to the other drivers and they appeared to try and stay together on track most of the time. Coupling that with not waving others by leads to unhappy folk.

They were also SLOWWWWW. Paaaainfully slow. The RX7 had no business being on the track, and possibly the road. They had to tow it out after it died, and the owner complained about it being wobbly and spongy, like all the shocks needed to be replaced. You don't bring a car like that to a track. You don't bring a car that's anywhere CLOSE to being like that on a track. It's very irresponsible and dangerous.

On top of being slow and not taking the right lines, the only time these guys seemed to accelerate was out of a corner. This led to them getting sideways a lot. The G had an off track, and the the IS lost it directly in front of me. The G35 driver complained about his Brembos squeaking a lot during daily use. It explains a lot about their mentality and knowledge. They had some really cool cars that I'd love to own. The IS was great and modded very tastefully all around. They shouldn't have been on the track though.

This was the other trio that came together. The heavily modified car was in my group. It had 3 off tracks. 2 were minor, another tore off most of the front splitter. I don't want to say that it was too much car for the driver, but it was too much car for the driver driving the way he was. That's not to say he was slow, but he was pushing it in places the he definitely should not have. I spent the last 10 minutes of my third stint behind him. It felt great keeping up with him in the corners and improving my lines/braking/acceleration points when compared to his. I spent a fair bit of time back off the throttle on the straights as I didn't want to pressure him into feeling like he had to go faster and end up off track again. His friends did not have the same problems he did.

Overall, I was surprised that there was so little policing of rules. A lot of people were making passes without hand signals and in general just doing little things which shouldn't be happening at an amateur track day. The superman 'yay I'm driving a race car' complex can be very dangerous in a setting like that. While I understand the frustration with people who shouldn't have been on track, driving recklessly is certainly not the answer.

Oh well. I had a good time. I just wish the videos I have of my 2nd and 3rd stint weren't so awful. Hope you enjoyed the read/pictures.

 

[Cano]

Dude I didn't even know you had a GS. Cool stuff. And man that M3 covered in oil, it looks awesome, haha

 

[ShobThaBob]

I don't. It's my dads. They're in Europe for two weeks and I'm taking care of all that's theirs.

 

[Eric.]

That is one Minty AW11.

 

[Blackbird.]

I don't. It's my dads. They're in Europe for two weeks and I'm taking care of all that's theirs.

Taking care means:

Race dad's vette ... check!

 

[Ls2BluGoat]

You running a trans cooler?

The 4L60e autos aren't the strongest items out there, I know of a few that have gone without much abuse behind a stock LS1.

FWIW 4l65e's came in the 05-06 models. They're built much better, are designed to be much stronger and have several key things that aren't found in the 4l60e. However, when built right could hold lots of power.

OP, have you tried Pedder's track suspension packages? I have a couple buddies who use them for auto-X racing and I heard nothing but good things from their products. They're a little pricey, but worth it.

 

[ShobThaBob]

I'm not too big into modding, especially to a car that isn't extremely well suited to track use out of the box. The GTO is a good daily. I'm not going to try and make it something that it's not.

 

[Ls2BluGoat]

^ Understandable. Mine is also daily driven and I've racked up quite a few miles on it along the way too. Any 1/4 times?

 

[ShobThaBob]

Nope! I don't really enjoy drag racing.

 

[Slash]

Really likeing that black 1965 Mustang Coupe. They are EXTREMELY loud.