Silverstone and Red Bull Ring need proper penalties!

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NixxxoN

NixxxoN

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Yep, you can gain a lot of time by running the off area at certain corners in both tracks (just like in real life) and there are no penalties in exchange. Also of course you can shortcut the corners especially in silverstone...
This needs to be fixed ASAP! Can't do online races properly like this.

Edit: SPA Francorchamps aswell! (eau rouge)
 
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NixxxoN
Yep, you can gain a lot of time by running the off area at certain corners in both tracks (just like in real life) and there are no penalties in exchange. Also of course you can shortcut the corners especially in silverstone...
This needs to be fixed ASAP! Can't do online races properly like this.
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My solution, no penalties at all. Race with people that know how to drive. I never run penalties in all the leagues I race in. Just my 2 cents.
 
fortbo
My solution, no penalties at all. Race with people that know how to drive. I never run penalties in all the leagues I race in. Just my 2 cents.
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I agree, penalties are for someone who drives good and all of the good drivers on their friends list is not on at the moment but wants to open a racing lobby to random people. I don't do penalties myself because I can't stand the ghosting thing and I drive proper but if someone is driving and cutting the track in my lobby, somebody should speak up and the perpetrators soon finds out what the shape of Italy is.
 
fortbo
My solution, no penalties at all. Race with people that know how to drive. I never run penalties in all the leagues I race in. Just my 2 cents.
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Huh? Penalties are in professional competitions aswell.
And unfortunately we can't know who's a clean driver and who dont until we see them play
If penalties are properly applied in most tracks in GT6, why those two tracks not?
 
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Would it be hard for PD to have a "Track limits" version of the tracks with cones... hit a cone... take a penalty (Chosen by the race host).

But when the likes of Vettel and Alonso can cheat and use pit radio "Handbag warfare" to complain about the other one is rich, they set a terrible example to the notoriously impressionable 40-60 year old demographic that play GT6.

Of course if you race in a league with the same group of clean racers, then so long as they all know the track limits before the race all is good.

Shame they don't have Assisi anymore with its corners that you just couldn't cut.
 
Grid Autosport takes a different approach to off track penalties that I think works quite well. The penalties are based on the white lines on the outside of the tarmac and your penalty is calculated in relation to the amount of time you possibly gained from your shortcut. Go a few inches inside the white line at a hairpin for a few feet and your penalty is very short, around a second. Bigger cuts with potentially bigger gains garner a 1-3 second penalty.
 
Ryk
Would it be hard for PD to have a "Track limits" version of the tracks with cones... hit a cone... take a penalty (Chosen by the race host).

But when the likes of Vettel and Alonso can cheat and use pit radio "Handbag warfare" to complain about the other one is rich, they set a terrible example to the notoriously impressionable 40-60 year old demographic that play GT6.

Of course if you race in a league with the same group of clean racers, then so long as they all know the track limits before the race all is good.

Shame they don't have Assisi anymore with its corners that you just couldn't cut.
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People usually do cheat if possible and/or if it benefits them in the game, thats the thing. Everyone goes a mile wide off-track at the copse corner for example.
And if someone doesnt want to cheat, and sees that the others do it and gain benefit from it, then also ends up cheating.

Johnnypenso
Grid Autosport takes a different approach to off track penalties that I think works quite well. The penalties are based on the white lines on the outside of the tarmac and your penalty is calculated in relation to the amount of time you possibly gained from your shortcut. Go a few inches inside the white line at a hairpin for a few feet and your penalty is very short, around a second. Bigger cuts with potentially bigger gains garner a 1-3 second penalty.
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I think GT5/6 works similar. At least in GT5, if you went offtrack, but you joined immediately at the closest possible place, you didnt get penalized, and if you kept offtrack for a bit you got the penalty.
 
NixxxoN
Yep, you can gain a lot of time by running the off area at certain corners in both tracks (just like in real life) and there are no penalties in exchange. Also of course you can shortcut the corners especially in silverstone...
This needs to be fixed ASAP! Can't do online races properly like this.
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I had 2 good races on Silverstone online Saturday night, & not one person deliberately cut the corners. I guess it comes down to the caliber or racer, honest or dishonest.

That said the penalties in GT games are awful. Firstly they are too severe on some tracks & too lax on others, there's no consistency, & then the penalties are nothing like you get in real life. I really hate these stupid slow down for a few seconds arcade game style penalties. All penalties are turned off in lobbies I host, & I rarely have problems. Bad drivers are warned, & if they carry on they get kicked. If they race another night & drive bad, they go on my blocked list. Job done!

We need a Stewards AI that can analyze bad driving, & dish out appropriate penalties; a warning, time added to your overall race time, place drops, drive through's, stop & go's, & black flags etc.
 
NixxxoN
People usually do cheat if possible and/or if it benefits them in the game, thats the thing. Everyone goes a mile wide off-track at the copse corner for example.
And if someone doesnt want to cheat, and sees that the others do it and gain benefit from it, then also ends up cheating.


I think GT5/6 works similar. At least in GT5, if you went offtrack, but you joined immediately at the closest possible place, you didnt get penalized, and if you kept offtrack for a bit you got the penalty.
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Have you played GAS? It's not similar. The scaling of penalities in GAS is much more player friendly, allowing you to make mistakes and lose just a small amount of time on track. GT is much more punishing and far less flexible.
 
VBR
That said the penalties in GT games are awful. Firstly they are too severe on some tracks & too lax on others, there's no consistency, & then the penalties are nothing like you get in real life. I really hate these stupid slow down for a few seconds arcade game style penalties. All penalties are turned off in lobbies I host, & I rarely have problems. Bad drivers are warned, & if they carry on they get kicked. If they race another night & drive bad, they go on my blocked list. Job done!
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Well I agree about the lack of consistency thats why I opened this thread... In some tracks the penalties are fine, in some tracks they are harsh (example: Monza of the 80's) and in Silverstone/RBR they are almost non existant...
And how do you know all the time if they cut corners or not? I mean sometimes you cant see it because hes off your "radar" and you need to save replay and watch offline, to see everything.
Johnnypenso
Have you played GAS? It's not similar. The scaling of penalities in GAS is much more player friendly, allowing you to make mistakes and lose just a small amount of time on track. GT is much more punishing and far less flexible.
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GT6 is also flexible, but its maybe not as intuitive. If you go offtrack and you keep offtrack, you mostly get penalised, but if you slow down and rejoin right after, you dont. You can avoid penalties if you know how to. The key is to rejoin as fast as possible to the track, and slow down when running wide and cutting a chicane, stuff like that. Its pretty common sense.
 
NixxxoN
And how do you know all the time if they cut corners or not? I mean sometimes you cant see it because hes off your "radar" and you need to save replay and watch offline, to see everything.
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Yes, I save replays & watch them afterwards. I like watching replays as much as I like racing, it's best thing on TV!

:D
 
I think under a league setup when running these two tracks it would be a good idea to save every replay and have the replay available for review until they do something about it. Of course the review would have to be done by an experienced racer that is not involved in the race. If there is a question about the validity of the in question racer's time it could be brought up. But that lends itself to all parties being honest about there racing. Also the people calling the "fouls" would have to have a valid claim as well. Even though we shouldn't have to do this if there are built in penalties.

As I do when I am trying to improve my time I personally apply the amount of "penalty" time to my lap time. Penalty time being the amount of time I spent in the "disallowed area". These being areas that I know will shave time of my lap time by short cutting a section. Its a pain in the butt but it is what I do to keep myself honest.
 
Crzyrazr
I think under a league setup when running these two tracks it would be a good idea to save every replay and have the replay available for review until they do something about it. Of course the review would have to be done by an experienced racer that is not involved in the race. If there is a question about the validity of the in question racer's time it could be brought up. But that lends itself to all parties being honest about there racing. Also the people calling the "fouls" would have to have a valid claim as well. Even though we shouldn't have to do this if there are built in penalties.
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You have just described S.N.A.I.L., and most of the Leagues here on GTP.
Replays, Stewards, Incident Reports, and clean racers.
I rarely venture in to random lobbies anymore, just not worth the frustration and time of finding a decent room.
 
Grand Prix Legends, a game that came out... (Takes socks off feet) 16 long years ago, had a replay analyser (Made by a couple of players - not even the programmers that made the game.) that would take a race replay file and get every shred of information out of it. Each driver, every clean lap, ever lap that wasn't clean. Average lap times, if they were involved in an impact - if their car suffered mechanical damage. It would also spit out positional lap charts, graphical temporal race charts -

Having to steward a 17 player race that lasted for over two hours is a tough ask.

http://gplra.martingranberg.se/examplesite/index.html
http://gplra.martingranberg.se/examplesite/LapChart.html

This made a stewards job very easy as they could have an idea when and who was involved with a possible problem without having to call on the drivers themselves (Drivers who never hold their hands up and say "Bah! That French guy in the Ferrari beat me into the first corner, I thought I would just clatter into him at full chat and take him out of the race and the championship - whoops did I say that out loud...")

Hope you all find a grid of like minded racers.
 
Can't believe no one has mentioned spa in then debate.

The cut you can take at eu rouge is a massive issue, all the more strange considering they had it right in GT5.
 
I don't like GTs penalty system at all. As mentioned above, this "ghosting" is the worst aside from inconsistency of the system.
Several times in open lobbies, where penalties are activated nearly all drivers use the ghosting to overtake through "invisible cars" in front of them allthough no penalty was given to the so passed car; the game just made them invisible (to avoid accidents, I guess) and that is so annoying and so far away from reality that I never activate penalties while I'm hosting (open or friends only, never penalties for me).
Like @VBR already said, rude and dirty drivers who don't follow the well known "2 tyres on track surface" rule, divebombing retards etc. get warned and eventually kicked.
Of course, sometimes it works flawlessly while another day you whish you're not hosting because no proper race develops.
 
schmocke
I don't like GTs penalty system at all. As mentioned above, this "ghosting" is the worst aside from inconsistency of the system.
Several times in open lobbies, where penalties are activated nearly all drivers use the ghosting to overtake through "invisible cars" in front of them allthough no penalty was given to the so passed car; the game just made them invisible (to avoid accidents, I guess) and that is so annoying and so far away from reality that I never activate penalties while I'm hosting (open or friends only, never penalties for me).
Like @VBR already said, rude and dirty drivers who don't follow the well known "2 tyres on track surface" rule, divebombing retards etc. get warned and eventually kicked.
Of course, sometimes it works flawlessly while another day you whish you're not hosting because no proper race develops.
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I hate ghosting cars with a passion, it ruins totally the realism, & is the main reason penalties are always off in my lobbies.
 
fuji have also a lot of flaws, several corners can be cut, you can take the last corner really wide (off track) be faster and no one can follow you in the long long straight
monza modern and 80s layout doesn't have the same penalties

it's like if a guy who exploit flaws had to draw the boundaries of the penalty system ...
IMO all tracks have to be reviewed
 

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