Simple Gearing guide... pleeeeaasseee

  • Thread starter Laughlyn
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LaughlynVaughns
Title says it all really.
I'm beginning to become a dab hand at tuning my cars but one part i really fail at badly is gearing on both final drive and individual settings. Can anyone put up a good guide or just give me any tips on getting gearing balanced?
I try get the lil lines going in a steady arc and some cars i get spot on, others are just terrible.

any help would be great
 
Personally I avoid messing with the individual ratios whenever possible. I tend to equip the Sport Transmission, even with all other parts maxed, because it lets me use the ratios the manufacturer selected for the car while adjusting the final drive for different tuning and track conditions. Unless you're racing against skilled online players, you don't really need any more than that, IMO.

Still, I can tell you that you want the ratios to descend in a pattern similar to the default Race Transmission settings (IIRC they are 2.89, 1.99, 1.50, 1.20, 1.00, .85), with shorter gaps between the higher gears. If the gaps are too regular you'll either feel like you're skipping a gear when you shift into 4th/5th/6th, or you'll end up with a dog-leg-style first gear. To determine the best set of ratios, pay attention to your engine's torque curve (displayed in the upgrade shop) and lay out your gears so the 2nd gear line (in that diagram in the tuning menu) covers your ideal powerband. The RPM is the vertical axis of the graph.

Tuning the final drive is relatively simple. Once your other gears are set (or left alone), I recommend putting in the largest number that gives you the top speed you're looking for -- with slower cars, shortening the gearbox like this can make all the difference in performance. In the career home menu you can flip between tuning and the Benchmark option to check your rated top speed quickly. Sometimes you may want to base the top speed on the longest straight of a particular track, other times you can pick a more general speed -- I have a few tuned cars that max out just north of 186mph (300kph). Be aware that if you set the final ratio too high you can make first gear uselessly short and/or wheelspin-happy, so adjust the other ratios as needed if you're building an acceleration powerhouse.

That's how I do it. Hope that helps. 👍
 
cheers bud, will give it a proper read n play about when i boot forza up. i've started just using the transmission that allows final gear but i've noticed some the gears can drag on a bit and i hate using manual with teh pad with teh dumb X/B for gear up n down, i much prefered teh kinda semi automatic in Forza 3 and in lieks of shift where u can click gea rup while in automatic but tehy dont let you on here :(
 
Personally I avoid messing with the individual ratios whenever possible.

That's how I do it. Hope that helps. 👍

<...snipped to save bandwidth, but you should re read this post before continuing...>

When dealing with standard production car transmissions this is an easy way to adapt a car to specific tracks or situations, but it's not entirely accurate.

The race transmission is not the OEM trans, it's a "race" transmission, ie. a TKO, Richmond or other type transmission specifically designed for racing. Judging by the numbers 90% of the cars use, it's a bastardized TKO or T-56 setup with a fairly standard gear set. It's also a standard trans, not an automatic, even though how it's shifted is is somewhat irrelevant as far as the game is concerned.

Most Auto's are 3 or 4 speeds, or 3+OD or 4+OD. Manuel's trans is 4, 5 or 6 speed, some specialty units can be 7 or 8 gears.

IF you're using the stock trans for the car, than adjusting final drive makes logical sense to make the trans taller or shorter to fit the track, and it works out into a decent little package.

HOWEVER... If you use the race trans, it's a generic setup that has nothing at all to do with the car. There's a reason they offer so many different gear combinations with a TKO or T-56 for example. Each car is unique. The same car at each class break is unique. Every speed part or weight change effects the power band AND the torque curve. How T-10 handled the torque vs hp in a car can make a world of difference in what you set those individual gears at.

As an example, here's a few gear sets for the Tremec T-56:
-SET 1- // -SET 2-
1-2.97 // 1-2.66
2-2.07 // 2-1.78
3-1.43 // 3-1.30
4-1.00 // 4-1.00
5-0.80 // 5-0.74
6-0.62 // 6-0.50

The first set is much more aggressive with shorter gears overall, meaning it will accelerate quickly but will have a lower top speed. The 2nd set will come off the line slower but will achieve a higher speed.

There's another 13 different sets for that trans alone, and that's just one part number for one type of aftermarket transmission.

All that said, T-10 did us a favor by using the same start point, or same gear set for most of the race transmissions within the game for production type cars. (Race cars are a different animal, though the same general rules will apply)

There are a few BASIC rules of thumb for playing with individual gears that will keep you on track to figuring it all out. I use these because we're all different, as is each car and each situation. There is no "perfect" tune or "perfect" plug in set of numbers that fits everyone. This is a bit long winded, but if want to know, read on...

Before you even start, when you build your car make a note of the HP and Torque graphs and the max of each before you go to tune the trans. You NEED to know when your car is making power and when it isn't.

This isn't the exact "definitions" of the two, they're more like concepts to help you understand the end result. I won't debate the accuracy of the definitions, it's not the point. It's having you understand what the gear change is going to do that's important.

The way I think of these two things goes sorta like this...
Well, a lot like this, actually.

HP = Speed. It's how fast you can go.
TORQUE= Power. It's the force that get's you to the speed hp provides.

All TORQUE = Pulling your house off it's foundations... very slowly.
All HP = Spinning half your lawn all over your house while it laughs at your foolish attempt to move it anywhere.

You need TORQUE (TQ) to get going, you need HP to keep you going. HP is a capacity, TQ is a force.

The gears in the transmission work with TQ, and the multiplying of it to provide the power or force to move the car. It's the bridge from dead stop to all the speed that HP can provide. This is a critical point to understand. You can cut the capacity of HP off by not applying the TQ correctly. In other words, you can limit or handicap your car by not allowing it to use all it's got.

This is the where, what and why of the transmission and the gears, and why just using whatever numbers they throw at you can hurt you and your car's performance because the gears used are not set to the car, but to the transmission itself.

When you started out, most likely you started to throw numbers around and move sliders over and over again trying to figure out what the transmission was doing. Sometimes you hit on something, so you try it in the next car, but it falls flat on it's face.

What I needed when I started out were a few simple rules and concepts to keep in mind, things that would keep me pointed in the right direction and allow me to make "educated guesses" instead of arbitrary slider moves.

Hopefully these will help you get started in black arts of gear selection and allow you to first survive, and then excel in making the race trans work well and allow you to fully take advantage of you car's potential.

Basic gear rules:
#1: Big # = SHORT gear, Small # = TALL gear.
#2: SHORT gears = acceleration, Tall gears = speed
#3: Gears that are too SHORT prevent a car from stretching it's legs, and can cause severe over steer issues on throttle exit. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people work setups over and over again only to find they had too short a gear in the car for the corner and were simply overpowering the exit.
#4 Gears that are too tall will not accelerate well. They will make a car feel sluggish, lethargic. They will draft like a mother though...
#5: Tall gears in 1st/2nd can cause excessive wheel spin, especially if using a Short final drive gear. Conversely, though a shorter gear will cause wheel spin, it will reach it's shift point quicker, which takes it out of the equation. Better to spin a little and get moving into 2nd/3rd than it is to sit and spin in 1st...
#6: The final drive is NOT the final word an how fast a car goes.

Putting the theory into practice...

I'd recommend finding a car you really like, and drive A LOT. Start in the C class. Build the car around two things: Transmission and Tires. Try to leave all chassis and HP related upgrades out of the picture. Next, pick Race or Drag, as each type of trans setup is totally different. Drag is simple enough, and is even easier once you can tune for a road course, so I'd recommend you start with race as opposed to straight line.

Start with the trans out of the box, run at least ten laps, preferably with Manuel's trans. If you use a clutch, fine, but it's not necessary for what you want to see, and may even get in the way of the result unless you are very proficient with it.

Pay close attention to the shift points, where they occur, what RPM range, what part of the track etc. Maple Vally short in the C class Rival challenge is an excellent place to do this as it's short, the cars are basically stock, and if you keep track of the leader board you can make some cash while you're learning...

After this, go into the settings and look at the gears. You only use first to get off the line, so if you can slide it up or down to either create or take up space to better use the other gears, do so. I will usually make it slightly taller to put 2nd and 3rd into better positions in the RPM band.

On most tracks, 2nd/3rd and 4th are the $$ gears. You want to build the gear set around NOT having to shift. Of course you will have to, but the point is to eliminate all unnecessary shifts, especially any shifts that occur in the middle of corners. You are going to be adjusting the individual gears to work with specific corners, allowing you to maintain stability, momentum and eliminate the time wasted having to shift.

This may mean a shorter 2nd and a longer 3rd, or a longer 2nd and a shorter 3rd. My traditional set up will usually make 2nd and 3rd taller so I can stay in one gear on any track with mid speed corners. I'll make 4th just a bit taller to eliminate the need to up shift in that one section that always seems to pop up in any decent sized track. I find it's quicker to hang in 4th on the limiter than it is to shift up then shift back down. Not only for time, but also because it holds the car steady. It's one weight transfer instead of three...
I then go about adapting 5th and 6th to take advantage of any speed portions of a course, making 5th the primary and 6th the overdrive to get that last ounce out of that other single section that seems to pop up in every track over a mile and a half.

A perfect place to try this out are the esses at Suzuka. I set my car up to take them in one gear, in the power band. If I did it right, I don't have to brake or shift at all, and can sail through them smooth as silk. Every shift costs you time, both in the actual shift and in the engine recovering it's momentum building RPMs.

Just as a side note...: One thing about the T-10 set up is the penchant for 5th to be the 1:1 gear. IRL, it's usually 4th, with 5th and 6th being overdrives. In Race specific cars, you may not even see a 1:1 gear. In addition, the 3:30 final gear is an arbitrary gear. Typical grandma grocery getters would have something akin to a 2:73 final gear, a "highway" or "cruising" gear. Drag cars run 4:11's, 4:56's and shorter by comparison, as they need the acceleration, not the speed.

As you progress, you'll find yourself looking at tracks in sections, and tuning each gear to a specific point.

In the end, it's all timing. The perfect trans set up is the one has you in the power band all the time, shifting as little as possible and shifting at the best opportunities.

As for the final gear... You should be redlining just at the braking point at the end of the longest straightaway or fastest course section. If you hit the rev limiter, you're too short. If you have 1,000 RPM left, you're too long... UNLESS drafting plays a part in the race you are in. Anytime drafting is a possibility, always leave 500-1K RPM headroom to take full advantage of the draft. The danger is trying to balance how much room you leave vs how much top speed you lose without the draft. You can't have both... I myself usually end up too tall, which means one mistake and I'm done, as I don't have the speed without the draft to stay with the pack. This is because I tend to be a bit cautious and conservative. It's better to be banging the limiter in the draft than it is to have room left at the top. At least you have a fighting chance to catch up should you get wrecked or spin or what have you.

Typical final (rear end pumpkin) gears run from mid 2's all the way up to mid fives. Some common rear end gears for the Ford 9", one of the most universally used rear ends in the custom and racing world are 3:23, 3:40, 3:55, 3:73, 3:90, 4:10 (4:11), 4:30, 4:56. Some Mopar rear ends used 4:88s to 5:86's...! In the aftermarket world, there are a ton of custom gear sets for just about anything you can think of.

I find myself in the 3:23 to 3:55 range for many road course setups. One thing I can tell you is that I always set this gear last. I always start with a 3:23 or 3:55 depending on the HP and TQ of the car. Once I have a decent set of gears, I use the final gear to adjust to individual tracks. Shorter tracks = Shorter gear. The nice thing about this is that your timing stays pretty consistent with the car. You may tweak a gear or two every once in awhile, but once you get a car where you really like the shift timing, you'll find yourself not wanting to change it if you can help it...

I wish you great success, and stay off the wall..!
 
guy above please have a cookie on me.

additionally I find not using 6th gear at all can sometimes be beneficial in high torque cars, less gear change means less time wasted
 
An excellent in-depth resource for anyone who comes looking for this thread. 👍

I just wanted to mention...
The race transmission is not the OEM trans, it's a "race" transmission, ie. a TKO, Richmond or other type transmission specifically designed for racing...

...IF you're using the stock trans for the car, than adjusting final drive makes logical sense to make the trans taller or shorter to fit the track, and it works out into a decent little package.

HOWEVER... If you use the race trans, it's a generic setup that has nothing at all to do with the car.
The answer you were looking for is in the sentence immediately after the one you quoted:
Personally I avoid messing with the individual ratios whenever possible. I tend to equip the Sport Transmission, even with all other parts maxed, because it lets me use the ratios the manufacturer selected for the car while adjusting the final drive for different tuning and track conditions.
I was talking about the Sport Transmission -- which uses OEM or shortened OEM ratios (it keeps the "economy" final gear on cars that have one). I was also aware of the Race Transmission's generic ratios, and quoted them:
...the default Race Transmission settings (IIRC they are 2.89, 1.99, 1.50, 1.20, 1.00, .85)...
The fact that they are generic is why I use the Sport Transmission, and why I recommend the same for anyone who isn't inclined to tune individual gear ratios.
 
I think you just talked me into going back thru all my cars and taking out the race tranny and putting in the sport tranny...It does make sense come to think of it....Im a creature of habit so the first things I do when I mod a car is put on race brakes, race suspension, roll bars and race tranny....but they are all geared the same...might even drop down the PI when I do this...thanx
 
An excellent in-depth resource for anyone who comes looking for this thread. 👍

I just wanted to mention...

The answer you were looking for is in the sentence immediately after the one you quoted:

I was talking about the Sport Transmission -- which uses OEM or shortened OEM ratios (it keeps the "economy" final gear on cars that have one). I was also aware of the Race Transmission's generic ratios, and quoted them:

The fact that they are generic is why I use the Sport Transmission, and why I recommend the same for anyone who isn't inclined to tune individual gear ratios.

There's only one issue to consider when doing this... Any time you change a car.

-Anytime you add hp, you change the hp and TQ curves those gears were designed for, they are no longer "optimized" for your new curves.
-Anytime you change weight you create situations where you may have too much gear and over power the car. Sometimes the final is not enough to both fix the problem area yet maintain the advantages in other areas of the track.
-Changing the clutch and flywheel change how the car reacts to the hp/TQ curve. Even if you change nothing else, you have upset the balance from engine to transmission. The final drive may not be enough to compensate for that. Any gain always has an associated loss. Sometimes the loss isn't worth the gain, sometimes the final isn't enough to compensate without costing you somewhere else.
-Changing tire width, wheel weight, drive shaft and whether you install an LSD all change how the car reacts. Having to adjust the final to make the car agreeable again may not make it as efficient as it was. Sometimes the opposite is true and the car is better.

The key is in being able to recognize where and when that is happening...

Just changing the final drive does not always allow the flexibility you need to meet all the varying changes and reactions to the new set of demands you placed on the car.

Personally, I base which one I use on the car class. Anything B and below, the mid trans is more than adequate and saves index points for other mods. (edit: Drag cars are an exception, they need the gear flexibility. )

It's when I get to A class cars where you begin to have enough changes to warrant looking at going to the Race Transmission. If a car hits S class or above, it's 'RAGU"... ie, it's in there.

So when and where and how do you tell what to use...?

I do the following whenever index points permit for A class and up:

Put the Mid trans in and note the factory ratios.

Then install the full race transmission, but put those Mid Trans gears in it.

You now have the best of both worlds. You can still use it just like you did before, but when you meet up with a particular turn or track that needs a bit of a tweak, it's available to you without having to back out, swap trans or swap tunes etc.

I do it because it makes using the tuning sheets easier and because I always have the same unit in the car, the transmission is consistent throughout all of my tunes.

This lets you avoid having to go back and forth between the two types, and the inherent car part changes that go with it. It allows you to build and run one car, which makes it easier to get used to. You can focus on just the one transmission instead two. It makes the car and the transmission constants instead of variables. In tuning, constants are good, especially when those constants can become variables any time you need them to.

There's also the wt and shift time differences of using the race over the mid. They aren't much on some cars, but when chasing tenths of a second on the leader boards it can be just the little bit you need to make that time...

Using the full race with the Mid's "factory" ratios as a start point gives you the best of both worlds and the flexibility to go to another world altogether if you want to.

_
 
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