So, I bought the Mazda 787B....

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I know it has quite the following on this board... and it's not a bad car, for sure. But is it great? Hmm... not sure. It isn't that fast, coming in a second a lap slower than the Bentley at Indy, and nearly 3 seconds slower than the Toyota GT One.... even with the stage 3 turbo added.

Some have said it sounds awesome, and true enough, when it starts up when changing cars in the garage, it sends shivers down your spine.... but in bumper view, racing, it sounds like a hairdryer.

So, to the fans, why do you love it so much?
 
It's the only rotary engine to ever win the Le Mans 24 hour race. It was a major underdog and the reliability of its design is what powered it to victory. Also, there's something to be said about being the only Premium Group C car in the game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_787B
 
Few reasons...

Handling, I find it better than other LMP/group C cars. Maybe the roadholding isn't as good, but the turn-in is fantastically lively. The whole car feels twitchy and high-strung. You can definitely make mistakes, but it feels like it is always you letting the car down, not the other way around.

Sound. Is highly accurate to the real car. The wankel engine in itself was a brilliant bit of engineering, the 4 rotor engine in the 787b is the pinnacle of that technology. There is also a very distinct and audible tone change as the car enters redline, the same is true if you are below the powerband, you need never look at a rev counter when driving the 787b.

Looks. The Renown clothing company provided factory sponsorship for the 787 race effort, the design was designed to be as striking and different as the car was. It is worth noting that Renown also made matching clothing for the entire team. Printed in giant text across the rear wing is "CHARGE", that doesn't even need explaining (but I will anyway).

History: The 787B (upgraded engine: B model) was designed to compete in world championship series races (group C), Endurance races, (Le Mans, suzuka 1000k) and the japanese championship series. Thats three different rule sets that the car had to be designed around. The engine was originally dyno'ed at 900 horsepower! However it was detuned to a measly 700 horsepower for reliability. This last point was one that the 787b delivered on in spades.
In their now imfamous 1991 LeMans win the Mazda team feilded 3 cars, two used a conventional technique, but the third (number 55 787B) was told to race balls-to-the-wall, 'forget this is a 24 hour race, pretend it is a sprint race' And so for 24 hours they pushed the 55 car as hard as they could. On the last driver change pit stop Johnny Herbert requested to stay in the car and drive it to victory, double stinting having driven the car at break neck speed the entire time. After all the 55 car's mercedes-sauber competetion had fallen out of contention by (primarily by fragging their transmissions) the 55 787B ran its way to victory. Herbert had to be pulled out of the drivers seat by force and was unable to make it to the podium, so complete was his exaustion.
It was a combination of the skill of the drivers being able to push non-stop without fault, and a car that could take being pushed to capacity for 24 hours straight that made the victory. The sauber cars were shown that speed wasn't everything as it was the car that let them down. Sauber drivers that year included a young Schumacher.


How fast a car laps a track means little in the grand scheme of things, the way the car 'feels' means far more. Feel can come from many factors.


:)
 
I have yet to drive this car in GT5 yet but in GT3 it was one of if not the best car.
 
On the last driver change pit stop Johnny Herbert requested to stay in the car and drive it to victory, double stinting having driven the car at break neck speed the entire time. After all the 55 car's mercedes-sauber competetion had fallen out of contention by (primarily by fragging their transmissions) the 55 787B ran its way to victory. Herbert had to be pulled out of the drivers seat by force and was unable to make it to the podium, so complete was his exaustion.
It wasnt exhaustion, he was so dehydrated because of the simple fact the team forgot to refill his water bottle during the stop. The car can be reliable but you just cant go making stupid mistakes like that....
 
It wasnt exhaustion, he was so dehydrated because of the simple fact the team forgot to refill his water bottle during the stop. The car can be reliable but you just cant go making stupid mistakes like that....

Thankfully for the team it didn't do more than dehydrate him. Thankfully in the game there is a pause button.
 
Thankfully for the team it didn't do more than dehydrate him. Thankfully in the game there is a pause button.

Yeah dehydration can lead to more serious health issues and luckily he got out before it lead to anything worse for him.
 
It wasnt exhaustion, he was so dehydrated because of the simple fact the team forgot to refill his water bottle during the stop. The car can be reliable but you just cant go making stupid mistakes like that....

Apparently you can, cause they did, and still won =)

Exhaustion caused by dehydration, sorry I wasn't clear.
 
The best car for me, but i had to work a bit on setup so... now it handles like i want.... its wild and a bit crazy - but not too much
perfect
 
How does this car compete with the likes of the Sauber C9 and Toyota 88C-V? In terms of handling as i know they are both up on power compared to the 787B.
 
I know it has quite the following on this board... and it's not a bad car, for sure. But is it great? Hmm... not sure. It isn't that fast, coming in a second a lap slower than the Bentley at Indy, and nearly 3 seconds slower than the Toyota GT One.... even with the stage 3 turbo added.
The 787B is older than, and in a completely different class to, the other 2 cars you mentioned so is it surprising that it's slower than the GT-One or the Bentley? The 787B qualified at Le Mans in 1991 with a time of 3'43.503. Compare that to the GT-One in 1999 which got 3'29.930 and the 2003 Bentley with its 3'32.843. There were slight changes to the circuit over the years, but they were very slight. It would seem that GT has it right with regard to lap times. (You can't compare real life cars when you add on turbos etc that PD have made up.)

But, it's not all about speed. History, handling, tyre preservation and the rotary all add up to giving a great driving experience.
 
Don't forget it was also the only Japanese manufacturer to win Le Mans.

(Happy now blitz? also, winners from Japan wasn't what I was talking about.
 
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Don't forget it was also the first Japanese manufacturer to win Le Mans.
If you had stated it was the only Japanese manufacturer, that would be more correct. No other Japanese car make has won the 24 Hour race. (However, to be technical, there HAS been a 2nd winner from Japan. In 2004 an Audi LMP won the 24 Hours but the team was actually from Japan and to boot actually had a Japanese driver.) To add even more confusion to the record, he wasn't even the first Japanese driver to WIN the 24 Hour Race, that was done in 1995, when Masanori Sekiya won while teamed with J.J. Lehto and Yannick Dalmas in a McLaren F1 GTR.

The 787B is older than, and in a completely different class to, the other 2 cars you mentioned so is it surprising that it's slower than the GT-One or the Bentley? The 787B qualified at Le Mans in 1991 with a time of 3'43.503. Compare that to the GT-One in 1999 which got 3'29.930 and the 2003 Bentley with its 3'32.843. There were slight changes to the circuit over the years, but they were very slight. It would seem that GT has it right with regard to lap times. (You can't compare real life cars when you add on turbos etc that PD have made up.)

But, it's not all about speed. History, handling, tyre preservation and the rotary all add up to giving a great driving experience.
To further support your statement, take a look at the times all 4 of the other pre-1990 cars put up in qualifying for their respective 24 Hour Races (only taking the car that was actually included in GT5).
1988:
Jaguar XJR-9 - Grid time was 3:23.740
1989:
Sauber C9/88 - Grid time was 3:15.040
Nissan R89C #03 - Grid time was 3:26.950
Toyota 89C-V - Grid time was 3:28.320

The 787B is still a great car, but if all you are after is speed and not an all around good driving experience, you are missing the point with the car. It has an iconic status and sometimes it is both the car and the driver that win, not just the car.
 
a second slower on indy? That means that it is a little slower in top speed. That is not what makes a car fun. What makes it fun is the experience. The sound is truly amazing. Especially at ilde. It is just fantastic. Then the handling is absolutely fantastic. The looks and the history. I just like everything about that car. It is not the fastest car in the game, but that can't put me off. I am a big fan of that car. I just love it to bits.
 
I don't... if Group C cars is the topic, I prefer go go with the Jaguar, or the Nissans...
 
jorgerostro
I don't... if Group C cars is the topic, I prefer go go with the Jaguar, or the Nissans...

It might just be me, but I find the Jaguar slightly unstable and it ranks with the R89 near the bottom of my list. The Sauber and Toyota are above them with the R92, the 905, and the 787B.
 
To further support your statement, take a look at the times all 4 of the other pre-1990 cars put up in qualifying for their respective 24 Hour Races (only taking the car that was actually included in GT5).
1988:
Jaguar XJR-9 - Grid time was 3:23.740
1989:
Sauber C9/88 - Grid time was 3:15.040
Nissan R89C #03 - Grid time was 3:26.950
Toyota 89C-V - Grid time was 3:28.320
Remember that the chicanes on the straight weren't there until 1990 so the track was faster then.
 
Remember that the chicanes on the straight weren't there until 1990 so the track was faster then.

Aye, forgot about that. I would then put the 787B well into the middle of the group. It would probably be ahead of the 88C-V.
 
I know it has quite the following on this board... and it's not a bad car, for sure. But is it great? Hmm... not sure. It isn't that fast, coming in a second a lap slower than the Bentley at Indy, and nearly 3 seconds slower than the Toyota GT One.... even with the stage 3 turbo added.

Some have said it sounds awesome, and true enough, when it starts up when changing cars in the garage, it sends shivers down your spine.... but in bumper view, racing, it sounds like a hairdryer.

So, to the fans, why do you love it so much?

Drive it like a Nascar and it will be slow. Try it on the nurburgring, it will do 5:40's with light tuning.
 
Drive it like a Nascar and it will be slow. Try it on the nurburgring, it will do 5:40's with light tuning.

Not with me driving!! I only managed my first sub-7 last week!

Thanks for all the input, appreciated.

I'll take it out often and see if it grows on me. Like many have said, it's the overall feel that suits you personally that matters. That's why I usually opt for the Bentley, even though I know the GT One is faster....
 
I have been looking for the 787B (among other cars) in the UCD for a very long time. Is it that rare? Or is it only available at the new car dealer?
 
It's a great car. Performance is like many other LMP cars, but it's premium, sounds awesome, it's iconic.

How does this car compete with the likes of the Sauber C9 and Toyota 88C-V? In terms of handling as i know they are both up on power compared to the 787B.

Both of those have quite a bit more power than the 787B and a much better top speed. They corner at pretty much the same speeds (the MINOLTA may corner a tiny bit faster).
 
Not with me driving!! I only managed my first sub-7 last week!

Thanks for all the input, appreciated.

I'll take it out often and see if it grows on me. Like many have said, it's the overall feel that suits you personally that matters. That's why I usually opt for the Bentley, even though I know the GT One is faster....

The only way to improve your driving ability in the shortest amount of time is the Nurburgring. When you can beast that track with almost any car, every other track will be easy aside from rally.
 
I love the 787B...with my current tune, I can lap La Sarthe consistently in the low 3:30's with a top speed of 244 mph on Mulsanne before the first chicane.

A lot of the other cars in discussion are fast and cool (Toyota GT-One, for example), but I just CAN'T enjoy driving non-premium cars, especially on endurance races -- Gotta have that cockpit view!

GT5's biggest failure, IMO -- FAR too few premium cars.
 
I use the 787B in a racing series and to be honest, I cannot tune this car to drive it like I want to. I love the look and sound of the car but for some reason, the tuning escapes me. Other than that, the credits used to purchase the 787B were well spent. I race for fun anyway so it's not like it's a chore to run this car but I cannot seem to tune right. I just need to spend more time with this car.
 
Face it - many people like 787B just because it's the only P Group C car.
If, for example, Nissan R89CP was P - people would prefer it over the 787B, not to even mention the Sauber C9.
True fact.
 
Yev
Face it - many people like 787B just because it's the only P Group C car.
If, for example, Nissan R89CP was P - people would prefer it over the 787B, not to even mention the Sauber C9.
True fact.

R89CP in premium :drool::drool:
 
I hope I've solved the mistery of why people love the 787B when in fact - it's quite inferior to the other Group C cars.
 
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