Some help on alternative fuel vehicles presentation

  • Thread starter Thread starter opendriver
  • 41 comments
  • 1,205 views
How did you manage to spell alternative correctly in your presentation, but completely butcher it twice in the same thread?

It's not a bad power point, but you might want to add a slide in at the end to wrap things up. Use it to summarize the main points that you went over in your presentation. Teachers usually like that kind of thing.
 
Max Powers
It's not a bad power point, but you might want to add a slide in at the end to wrap things up. Use it to summarize the main points that you went over in your presentation. Teachers usually like that kind of thing.
Click to expand...
I agree 👍 More graphics would be nice too, but I know it's hard to find any decent pictures for these topics.
 
Hows this for the last slide:

Wrap it up-

So far the best fuel, meaning cost efficiency and distance is bio-diesel AND E85.

The least would have to be steam.

Not only do are these fuels better for the environment, but they are cheaper to produce.

What do you think?
 
Bio-Diesel is still oil. It does make more pollution than E85, which I give the upper hand to. E85 is THE alternative fuel we need to introduce to America by now. The effective cost of production is nothing because producing corn is costless. Well if put away the fact that the farmer needs to work night and day to grow it in his farm but you know...

Let me explain something:
Producing leaded gas pollutes. Using leaded gas pollutes.
Producing corn for E85 doesn't pollutes. Using E85 barely pollutes, even close to none.

Another...

Production cost for leaded gas: ALOT !!!
Production cost for corn: peanuts...

Also an important fact with E85, is that it produces more power than leaded gas. I don't remember correctly how and why, but it does.


My response to alternative fuels, E85, THE ETHANOL !!!
 
MugenVTEC
Bio-Diesel is still oil. It does make more pollution than E85, which I give the upper hand to. E85 is THE alternative fuel we need to introduce to America by now. The effective cost of production is nothing because producing corn is costless. Well if put away the fact that the farmer needs to work night and day to grow it in his farm but you know...

Let me explain something:
Producing leaded gas pollutes. Using leaded gas pollutes.
Producing corn for E85 doesn't pollutes. Using E85 barely pollutes, even close to none.

Another...

Production cost for leaded gas: ALOT !!!
Production cost for corn: peanuts...

Also an important fact with E85, is that it produces more power than leaded gas. I don't remember correctly how and why, but it does.


My response to alternative fuels, E85, THE ETHANOL !!!
Click to expand...

Ok I got it now, im going to put E85 as the best and bio-deisel as second, just because of the pollutants
 
Mugen, you are wrong about E85 producing more power per volume than gasoline. And why are you comparing it to leaded gasoline, anyway? Nobody has uesd that in decades.
Anyhow, the only real benefit you get from running E85 is cleaner exhaust emissions. You won't get as much power as (unleaded, which is what we all use) gasoline, and you won't be able to drive as far on a tank. That means your fuel mileage will be lower, but it will run cleaner. Also, the power and range losses are very slight, but present.

What else... Oh yeah, opendriver, when you thaw liquid nitrogen (N2) you get Nitrogen gas (N2). Same thing. Always has been that way and alawys will be. If your teacher read that slide they would be laughing hysterically. Nitrogen is nitrogen, hydrogen is hydrogen, and they are two completley different elements, buddy.
And in accordance with post #5, when you say "...they are cheaper to produce" are you talking about all the alternative fuels or only E85 and bio-diesel, which were the two mentioned on the slide? You have to compare equally the alt. fuels to gasoline and diesel. Here's a few sample questions: Does this alternative produce the same power-per-volume and/or the same range as gasoline? If not, how much would be necessary to equal gasoline and how much would that amount cost compared to gasoline? How much does it cost to manufacture the fuel? How much does the infrastructure to create the fuel in the first place (refineries, filling stations, panels/batteries (solar/hybrid), motors (hybrids), etc. cost? What about the weight benefits or deficiencies required to carry the fuel? How will you package the fuel and will that method be practical? Is the fuel safe and stable? There are many other questions to ask, but you get the idea.
A few of those questions lead my opinion against hydrogen fuel cells. Packaging, range, power, and infrastructure are my main concerns. Solar power will not work, as is the case with steam and pure electric cars. Just imagine all the pollutants created down the river at the local coal-fired power station that produces that electricity! A good rule would be to use as little electricity as possible, unless it comes from a nuclear, hydroelectric, solar, or other low pollutant-producing power plant.
ANd work on your spelling.

That's all the bickering I can manage.
 
Am I watching a Rugrats episode?

Dude, you need to learn how to spell "Alternative" on your own instead of copying and pasting.
 
keef
Mugen, you are wrong about E85 producing more power per volume than gasoline. And why are you comparing it to leaded gasoline, anyway? Nobody has uesd that in decades.
Anyhow, the only real benefit you get from running E85 is cleaner exhaust emissions. You won't get as much power as (unleaded, which is what we all use) gasoline, and you won't be able to drive as far on a tank. That means your fuel mileage will be lower, but it will run cleaner. Also, the power and range losses are very slight, but present.
Click to expand...

I may be. I just remember hearing something about it telling it was producing much power than gasoline.

Well, I didn't know how gasoline was called in english. That's just a mistake. That made myself a fool lol... But anyway, I meant gasoline.

Those are not just cleaner. The E85 emissions are barely none.

Wow, I didn't knew that, thanks for telling me :)
 
Hey, don't worry about it. I's all gasoline, but the modern stuff just doesn't have any lead in it.
 
MugenVTEC
I may be. I just remember hearing something about it telling it was producing much power than gasoline.
Click to expand...
Ethanol (C2H5OH) is a much lighter molecule than gasoline (octane, C8H18). Thus, it doesn't contain as much chemical potential energy. Energy is released when bonds are broken, so a molecule with more bonds can "give" more energy when burned (in this case, that's gasoline). E85 gives plenty of energy, but not as much as pure gasoline.
 
Argh I dont have PowerPoint! Dunno why, I really should.
Well I did this same thing a few months ago, if you have a word document can you send it to me? I probaboly can help. Never thouhgt of asking on GTP.
Or I prolly can copy PwrPoint off my school PC install it here and read it.
 
Hm, not bad you certainly have a lot more fuel sources than me, I focused on Electric, Ethanol and Fuel Cells, all compared to gasoline.
But quite a few misspellings, and more visuals and backgrounds might be nice. Also dont like the font but thats not my choice.
 
MugenVTEC
Bio-Diesel is still oil. It does make more pollution than E85, which I give the upper hand to. E85 is THE alternative fuel we need to introduce to America by now. The effective cost of production is nothing because producing corn is costless. Well if put away the fact that the farmer needs to work night and day to grow it in his farm but you know...

Let me explain something:
Producing leaded gas pollutes. Using leaded gas pollutes.
Producing corn for E85 doesn't pollutes. Using E85 barely pollutes, even close to none.

Another...

Production cost for leaded gas: ALOT !!!
Production cost for corn: peanuts...

Also an important fact with E85, is that it produces more power than leaded gas. I don't remember correctly how and why, but it does.


My response to alternative fuels, E85, THE ETHANOL !!!
Click to expand...

Good, except that (as I've said elsewhere), bioethanol requires more thermal energy to make than you get from burning it, more oil to make than you can replace it with and, to replace petrol/gasoline in every car on Earth, would require half of the Earth's land surface devoted to corn growing.

Costless? Hardly...


However, E85 is the equivalent of 104RON (about 99/100 "Octane" for the US folks) petrol/gasoline.
 
Famine
to replace petrol/gasoline in every car on Earth, would require half of the Earth's land surface devoted to corn growing.
Click to expand...

I would only concentrate on America and Europe. But I'm suprised it would take that much of land surface to grow enough corn.

Famine
Costless? Hardly...
Click to expand...

As for the cost, if you eliminate the fact that farmers need to work hard to make it grow and all the things, the principal needs are seeds, sun, water and rich ground. :)
 
Yeah, so the soil now has to get exhausted all around the world and we have to deal with a pandemic of depleted soil all for a bunch of stupid cars?

We need to find a way to transport the need for high fructose corn syrup in every frickin' drink at the store towards auto-use. Our exhaust would smell like waffles, and there would be much fewer fat people.
 
Cant we BIKE? Or take a BUS? Its what 12 year old kids like, DO these days. Its like, TRENDY!
Then again I can bike 40mph downhill, around 25-30 flat.
Or walk, I walked 13 miles once in 3 hours.
 
Exactly. The way to make skinny people is to deny them crappy foods, so give the crappy food to the cars. Seriously, I think you're on to something, Omnis.

Rogue, if you "walked" 13 miles in three hours, you weren't walking--at least by definition, which is not needed, becuase you know a run is faster than a walk. Anhow, you must have been jogging or speed walking, and I have no idea how you didn't give up.
Oh, and taking the bus? Like, the city bus? Dude, I'd get jumped, shot, and my wallet would be stolen. Screw that!
 
It's not making skinny people, it's eliminating something that is really unecessary and that is probably the most significant factor in the obesity epidemic from every drink on the market. And then we can put it in our cars somehow to keep it from going to waste.
 
Omnis you're a genius! Now to steal your idea and get it patented!
Wait--I cant. Damn.
Thats a really good idea though, killing two bird with half a stone.
keef
Rogue, if you "walked" 13 miles in three hours, you weren't walking--at least by definition, which is not needed, becuase you know a run is faster than a walk. Anhow, you must have been jogging or speed walking, and I have no idea how you didn't give up.
Oh, and taking the bus? Like, the city bus? Dude, I'd get jumped, shot, and my wallet would be stolen. Screw that!
Click to expand...
I was walking. I take big steps. Ok I was speedwalking. Give up? Screw THAT! Yes the city bus and subway. Ive taken it for 3 years, and people have tried to push me off the platform, Ive been mugged, and listened to mad homeless people talk about drugs. I just gave them all the finger and moved on.
 
Rogue Ssv
Omnis you're a genius! Now to steal your idea and get it patented!
Wait--I cant. Damn.
Thats a really good idea though, killing two bird with half a stone.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have the uber-micro.
 
Wow, Rogue, you sound like a 12 year old I wouldn't want to mess with. Your street smarts own me entirely. You'll probably die before me, but that's no biggie. But blowing off a mugging is a situation that will produce only one thing: an accept-all-because-love-is-the-way liberal bastard. Next time don't give them the finger. Kill them.
 
The primary problem with any and all alternative fuels that I can think of is simple at heart: They require as much or more energy to produce as they render when used.
Ethanol is promising, but only if we use plant waste to produce it, instead of using dedicated crop (Corn seems to be the crop of choice) fields. It does burn clean, but there is only infrastructure to mix it with gasoline at this point, instead of selling it pure.
Methanol, similar to Ethanol, yeilds a more powerful burn. However, it does still face the problems of finding a source to render it from. It also eats away at most metals, creating a need for special coatings to protect said metals. (What about plastics where possible? Will it eat at those?)
Propane and natural gas are both fossil fuel based, but yeild much less power when burned. There is little advantage to either of these, and they must use dedicated storage techniques.
Electric power is impractical in many ways, and gives little advantage over other methods of power. Batteries are heavy and expensive and the cars have limited ranges. The power to charge the batteries must also be provided, and the power plants negate the fuel/emission problem as they either burn coal (hence giving off the emissions electric cars try not to), use hydroelectricity (Gives off large amounts of C02), or nuclear plants (toxic waste!!!).
Hydrogen, I will say, I don't know much about. I know fuel cells separate two elements to produce power, and give off H20 for emissions.

I think that until we find a permanent solution, we should keep developing fuel cell technology and supplement gasoline with Ethanol, in a stonger mix (50/50? I know changes typically need to be made to an engine if it runs more than a particular percentage ethanol).
 
Keef, man, twelve starts with the same letter as toughy-wuffy. :O
 
Yes, methanol will annihilate plastics and rubbers with time.

As for hydrogen, you only get about 4/5 the power/volume of gasoline, and you must have specialized, super high-pressure tanks to hold the stuff. If you put the tanks within the same area as the normal gasoline tank would be you would end up with only about 3/4, maybe even less, the range of that said tank of gas. Also, imagine the cost of an entirely new infrastructure to market hydrogen. I know it cost a lot for the gas infrastructure, but you would need even more hydro stations because the ranges of cars would be decidedly shorter. And the processes required to make--seperate--the hydrogen in the first place are ridiculous! The most common method uses some sort of oil-based fuel, I forget what it's called an how it works, and electrolysis is next. That requires enourmous amounts of electricity applied for long periods of time in order to get any useable amount of hydrogen.
I hate hydrigen as an alternative.

PS: what the hell are you two talking about, Rogue and Omnis?
 
Yeah its like totally hey.... once again you take words out of my mouth.
What Keith said.
But there ARE efficient ways to extract hydrogen without using energy, just say the word and I can dig up my science fair board and paper.
 

Latest Posts

Back