Sony / Immersion and their History

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tha_con

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So, a lot of people don't seem to understand the history behind Immersion, and think that htey are lawfully "due" their money, which they are, but you do not understand their history as a company. We'll start off about 10 years ago, when Nintendo contacted Immersion Corp. to design some form of rumble feature for their new console, the Nintendo 64. Unfortuneately, Nintendo was not pleased with the results that Immersion was giving them, and eventually gave them the boot (as they do everyone, like Sony). So, where does this leave us? Except with a very disgruntled Immersion Corp. Now, a year later, Immersion Corp submits a patent (without a working design, merely a collection of words to broadly describe a function) to the patent office. Sony does the same, however, a short time AFTER immersion does. End result? Immersion's Patent get's up first, they are rewarded the rights, and the rest is history.

What you don't know.

The technology was being used by Sony back in 1997. 5 years later (after Sony had sold enough to reward a nice profit) Immersion files a lawsuit to sucessfully gain some capital from Sony.

FIVE YEARS. There is no way that Immersion did NOT know that "their" patent was being used, they merely waited so they could increase their gains . Had they done this way back in 1998, or even 1999, they would have made SIGNIFICANTLY less, but of course, that was not their intention, nor the intention of their rediculously broad patent.

Die Immersion Corp, you do not deserve life.
 
I don't know about the die part. But it's a lot like buying up a domain name and then making the big company pay incredible amounts of money for it.

Too bad the patents work like that. Especially from independently researched products. There HAS to be some difference in the immersion and sony technology that would negate all that garbage.

BTW, what is immersion doing now? do they still make controllers or anything?
 
Well, since Immersions patent is so BROAD they simply "assist" other companies who wish to avoid legal turmoil in creating new forms of force feedback and rumble technology. Or as they like to call it "Haptic Feedback".

I don't mean the people in the company die by the way, I simply mean the company itself, I would be happy if they went bankrupt and were forced to sell all of their assests to other companies. Maybe have Sony swallow their company whole and take them over, and rename them something silly.
 
Yeah, that would be nice. Then we could get some great force feedback controllers and whatnot.
 
Didn't I hear they tried the same with Microsoft but they settled and now MS have shares in Immersion? Or is that just not true?

It's certainly an amoral way of doing business, but since when has that hurt a company? Well, maybe there's one or two cases. But generally if a company can find some weasely way of making money (not that I'm saying Immersion acted weasely of course) then chances are they'll do it.

Did Immersion actually have a working "haptic" controller or device before Sony made their DS1? It would stink if they didn't.

No chance of Sony producing some kind of rumble pack like the N64 used, eh?
 
Well, in fact Sony is the one to blame in "Immersion vs. Rest of the World" story.

They didn't bother about many warning from Immersion in the end of century about fringing their patent-rights with Sony-developed "shock" technology. "Shock" was made by Sony, but it was made in compliance with existing patents held by Immersion.

During last few years Immersion filed many lawsuits against both Microsoft and Sony for frining their patetnts in their controllers. Microsoft settled the lawsuit by paying the usage-fee in out-of-the-court settlement, together with paying the licence-fee for "rumble" usage in their future-devices. New controler for X360 is in 100% compliance with MS's deal with Immersion.

However, Sony didn't want to pay a dime, since the money was (and is - in this very moment) very serious - 90+ million $. And it is going up every day, by each PSone and PS2 console or controller sold.

The lawsuit by Immersion was the one and only reason that Sony cam eup with E3 2006 announcement of ditching Dual Shock technolgy out of PS3 controller. It was mocked-up by story that implementation of 6-axis movement techology in PS3 controller would seriousely clash with Shock. However, the Immersion CEO clearly dropped down such idea shortly after E3, stating that Shock-tech and 6-axis are 100% compatible to work together inside the Ps3 controller - only if Sony pay the demanded money for licence.

It is something remains to be seen in next few month. Final specs and pictures of Ps3 controller has yet to be published and I certanly hope that Sony will do what is necessary to settle with Immerssion.

Immersion also holds the patent-rights for force-feedback used in all FF wheels, including all logitech products that we're using for few years now.

They also have many other intresting patents - last E3 I was on was 2001 event, where Immersion demonstrated very intresting 360 degrees video techology - allowing users to manipulate the video-footage in 360 mode. It was demonstrated with Britney Spears concert shot with appropriate techology, but since then no product showed-off that usage. However, it is something we'll definatly see in the near future since harware-power has grown enough to make it commercial.

To conclude this very subject, Sony is the one to blame, not Immersion.
 
I agree with Amar, Sony need to put this to bed and move on, Immersion have already stated that they will aid Sony in developing the DS3 if they pay up, and they have also announced a new tech that has great feedback at greater detail and they say this will not muck about with Sonys 6 way freedom sensing tech.

If it dose mess it up, they could do what Kojima suggested and have an option in the game to use on or the other, I would welcome that.
 
amar212
Well, in fact Sony is the one to blame in "Immersion vs. Rest of the World" story.

They didn't bother about many warning from Immersion in the end of century about fringing their patent-rights with Sony-developed "shock" technology. "Shock" was made by Sony, but it was made in compliance with existing patents held by Immersion.

During last few years Immersion filed many lawsuits against both Microsoft and Sony for frining their patetnts in their controllers. Microsoft settled the lawsuit by paying the usage-fee in out-of-the-court settlement, together with paying the licence-fee for "rumble" usage in their future-devices. New controler for X360 is in 100% compliance with MS's deal with Immersion.

However, Sony didn't want to pay a dime, since the money was (and is - in this very moment) very serious - 90+ million $. And it is going up every day, by each PSone and PS2 console or controller sold.

The lawsuit by Immersion was the one and only reason that Sony cam eup with E3 2006 announcement of ditching Dual Shock technolgy out of PS3 controller. It was mocked-up by story that implementation of 6-axis movement techology in PS3 controller would seriousely clash with Shock. However, the Immersion CEO clearly dropped down such idea shortly after E3, stating that Shock-tech and 6-axis are 100% compatible to work together inside the Ps3 controller - only if Sony pay the demanded money for licence.

It is something remains to be seen in next few month. Final specs and pictures of Ps3 controller has yet to be published and I certanly hope that Sony will do what is necessary to settle with Immerssion.

Immersion also holds the patent-rights for force-feedback used in all FF wheels, including all logitech products that we're using for few years now.

They also have many other intresting patents - last E3 I was on was 2001 event, where Immersion demonstrated very intresting 360 degrees video techology - allowing users to manipulate the video-footage in 360 mode. It was demonstrated with Britney Spears concert shot with appropriate techology, but since then no product showed-off that usage. However, it is something we'll definatly see in the near future since harware-power has grown enough to make it commercial.

To conclude this very subject, Sony is the one to blame, not Immersion.
Click to expand...

Wrong, you do not warn someone for 5 years, you are missing the point.

Immersion SAT on this "patent' like a time bomb until they could make a substantial amount of money.

Immersion is a company that is willing to exploit both the US patent system, AND the US judicial system in order to yield profit from their own lack of initiative.

I'm sorry, but if what they were "sitting" on was in fact so "important" to them at the time, they would not simply sit by for FIVE years and tap Sony on the shoulder saying "um...excuse me...please? hello? um....thats....hey...umm..."

No.

In the big world of business politics, if someone is using your patent, you get to the nitty gritty, but Immersion waited until they could make 90 Million dollars and then make even more on every DS2 sold.

Please tell me how a company who submits a patent a mere months later than another is "guilty" of anything, especially considering that Immersion waited 5 years to take action? If you don't see the exploitation in it, I'm sorry, but Immersion is a (explitive) company. I have no respect for them or their practices.
 
Actually I agree with The_Con. They're much like the people who grab up name-significant web names for big companies, sports figures or any high recognition deal and then try and sell their IPs to the rightful name holder for exorbitant amounts. Farging bastids which have to make the human race look even worse, so to hell with Immersion. Patenting force feedback... that's like patenting the wheel, and I heard some moron actually did THAT. If that's true and the government was stupid enough to go along with it, I renounce my humanity. :p
 
Well, I can just guess, since I'm not a legal-professional.

Imerssion has probably first made some contacts with Sony, has sent them few thousand letters and faxes and mails, trying to reach down their probable fortress-like- in-company representative. It lasted for year, let's say.

Then Sony replies or whatever insisting that technology is theirs, bla, bla, another days and months of B2B communications. Another year.

Then Imerssion went nuts, they started to prepare the lawsuit and started heavy evidence collecting and legal advice procedures. They were facing to fight Sony and Microsoft. You have to be serious with that one. Probable another year.

Then they made first sue, then legal-people started with their demonic job. Another year or whatever.

It makes sense it takes so long to sue such a big companies for such stuff. I'm not saying it happened that way, I say it could happen THAT WAY TOO.

If I had patents for shock techology, and then Sony and MS has fringed my patetnts rights, I would ssue them no matter of cosenquences. But I'd better be heavy prepared for such a move, and that preparation probbly takes years in real life, no matter what "L.A. Law" has teached us.

Whatever.
 
It's interesting to hear that when they learned that the DS3 wasn't going to have 'rumble' they went "Hey, we're going to lose money!" and are now trying to get it into Sony's new controller.

I can live without 'rumble'.
 
I guess now they will sue Sony for not stealing their technology. What tools. :D

Oh, and I agree. I don't get this whole "rumble mania." It doesn't do much for me. I think it's a silly gimmick.
 
Just out of interest there's a survey (if people didn't already know) here about the PS3...and it's by Immersion! Yep, it would seem Immersion can see lot's of $'s slipping away from them!
 
slackbladder
Just out of interest there's a survey (if people didn't already know) here about the PS3...and it's by Immersion! Yep, it would seem Immersion can see lot's of $'s slipping away from them!
Click to expand...

Yes it look like they are panicking about the lost revenue for the playstation 3 would generate, Ive already filled it in two days ago, and just told them exactly what I think, Thre rumble feature is great and will be missed, but it wont make me choose another console over PS3.
 
Interesting survey. I like the rumble feature but it is not going to make me not get a PS3. That survey makes what tha_con stated seem all the more plausible.
 
I basically told them that I thought it was a silly gimmick, and that certain companies suing everyone just because they had some kind of jiggle mechanism should either get a life or die.

I think they'll put me down as undecided. :D

9. If you owned both an Xbox 360 with rumble and a PS3 console without any rumble capability, and a game came in both versions, which one would you buy?

* PS3 version (without the rumble)
Xbox 360 version (with the rumble)

Oh brother. :p
 

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