Sound Off! A Sense of Importance

  • Thread starter Thread starter JohnBM01
  • 15 comments
  • 741 views
JohnBM01

JohnBM01

21 years!
In Memoriam
Messages
26,911
United States
Houston, Texas, USA
Messages
JMarine25
Welcome to the topic in which I examine yet another issue. This time, the issue is on a sense of importance in playing Gran Turismo.

When you play a game, mostly an action game, you feel important as you are the only line of hope for completing such an objective. Whether the goal is to save someone or something, defeat a wicked enemy, or even become the best at a certain profession, you begin to feel important in most situations. Put that into racing games, however, can that feeling sort of gets lost. Almost like getting an Error404 (happened to me several times). When playing Gran Turismo, you acquire licenses and purchase all sorts of cars to take on all sorts of challenges. And sometimes when you win every race conceivable, you still feel a bit like you haven't really achieved anything. To be rude, even a 5-year old kid can race the Grand Valley 300km, but at the end of the day, the person will be glad to complete the goal, but when it comes down to money and rewards, it doesn't really seem like anything is really acheived. You go to a track, you win a race, then do it again elsewhere. It is a rude comment when marks like that are made, but it goes to show that you don't really seem to be rewarded. When I received all 128 stars in Super Mario 64, all I got was this cannon, a nice new triple jump, and an alternate ending in beating Bowser. I've seen nothing really effective for me to use while I've proudly beaten the game.

So the "Sound Off!" question goes like this. "How do you think Gran Turismo 4 should be in providing a sense of importance for acheiving goals?" If you think there is a sense of importance that I haven't highlighted on respectively, set me straight. If you think there ISN'T a real sense of importance, how can you begin to feel more important by winning race after race, and championship after championship? Some people think ANYONE can win ANY RACE. So how can we increase the effort of making GT racers feel more important for their efforts? Reply now.
 
Well I just get joy out of racing the cars and tracks-not from a sense of being important. I think you would need some sort of storyline like toca race driver has for that. Personally I GT think its fine how it is.
 
I think you've got an interesting question here John, and I think most of your points are right on. A feeling of importance, or control, is often the key part of a game, particularly for the first person shooters and god-games of the past...

However, I actually think that feeling of importance is being lost in many games, particularly as AI has come to the point where it's legitimately possible for AI to have a valuable contribution to the game play. Think about the team and squad based focus of so many popular games today - Rainbow Six, Counter-Strike, America's Army, BF1942. Actually these games raise another interesting question, as play moves online. It's nearly impossible to take on the full other side in these FPS games by yourself, you NEED your team and they need you. The reward comes from helping out the team, not standing out as a star. Joint Ops now allows over 150 people on a single map. Good luck achieving a real sense of controlling the situation among that many people. And I won't even get into MMORPGs and the anonymity that you feel in one of those massive worlds, except among your little circle of friends.

However, getting back to GT4. I think what always defined GTs for me was a fantasy, an experience, rather than a feeling that I was a key hope for some objective. GTs were a way to dream I actually was some guy who started with 18,000 dollars and no name and worked my way up to drive some of the hottest cars in the world. The satisfaction that I got wasn't so much from feeling "important" as dreaming I was actually experiencing that simulated career. At the end of the day, the only fame I had achieved was wrought at the expense of my simulated opponents, who I'm sure were pissed at my apparently endless persistence to beat them.

At the end, the satisfaction wasn't so much completing an objective - it was definitely a letdown, as you suggested (mostly by not having any more cars to unlock), though I wager many people derive a lot of happiness just from mastering the game with all golds. But when I look back over the game, I have happy memories of thousands of miles in a little Integra, then a Spoon S2000, and so on....the journey defined the experience, not the outcome. I think this is particularly true in racing.

I don't think there's much you could do about that lack of "objectic completed." What would I want? A big digital party with tons of digital 3D guys cheering me on? A digital umbrella girl to come give me a kiss? All these sorts of celebrations feel somewhat contrived, and while I'm all for extra renderings and videos, I don't think they increase my sense of importance. In the end, I raced and won for myself alone, and beat the others (be they AI or online). Getting a feeling of importance from that sounds a little arrogant, doesn't it?

Sorry about the length of the post ;)
 
Good question. I think that GT4 could make the races harder that way you would have to spend more time on one race, on the other hand the reward should be bigger. You should get a unique car that you cant buy and there is a championship that you can use just that one car. And after winning this championship you would get a better car than the one before. This will keep the player interested and the player would want to play more and more to get that "unique" car. In GT3 there are some races that people dont even do because they do not need the reward. (Unless their goal is to get 100% and in this case they only do it once just to get the percentage.) So my point is that harder races that take long and bigger prizes=bigger achievement and better feeling. You just feel like you got something bigger. For example, if I get an F1 car in the Polyphony Digital Cup I will feel better than if I get the same exact car in the 100 laps of Superspeedway. (This is not true in real life for me. I rather earn money the easy way than the hard way :sly: )
 
well, in my opinion different games can direct a sense of importance to the player in different games, racing games are probably the hardest to do because of the fact that you don't see any after-effect of winning a series other than the prize money and cars.

it could probably be done in a number of ways and i'll go over a couple here:

1: the ideas of having an actual race team with their own hopes for where the teams goes would ammount to allowing the player to feel like they are contributing toward that race team, when you lose their Morale goes down, when you win their morale goes up. this would work due to that fact that the player would actually see a facial expression on a charactor, which would give the player a feeling of quilt or pride over losing/winning a race.

and

2: a second way which would probably be less effective, but easier to program would be media attention, newspapers, car/racing magazines, and TV Coverage would give the player something to shoot for, try to get on the cover of a magazine which would have certain prerequesites, in Newspapers you could actually see your standing and every once in a while be contacted by a media source for an iterview (which would be answerable through pre-existing selections) this method will also allow you for a popularity contest amongst fellow racers through media polling

those are my ideas, but i doubt either of them would go into GT4 :P
 
Here is a Gran Turismo 2 story of how I began to feel more important. I raced the 80s Sports Car Cup with a 1980s or 1990s Supra. What I did was win a race with a somewhat under-powered machine and tried to make it work on Special Stage Route 5. I had to play aggressive a little bit, but the door for winning was open, and I walked right through the door in hopes that I can win a more powerful car. Then with my game file in GT2, I had a little more confidence in my garage by bagging an R30 Skyline Silouhette Formula. It may be ugly, but it's powerful. At least I felt that I could score upsets with an underpowered car. More scenarios probably wouldn't do much. Or let's say that as you get better, fans may appreciate your driving.

This has given me a nice idea, and I want to know if you approve or disapprove of it. Let's say that your racing includes a charisma rating. When you start, you start with 0. As you begin to win races, you kind of "level up" in Gran Turismo. You won't enhance your driving talents or such, but you can level up to about Level 100. The lower the level, the less people think you're important or special. If you're not really respected, you will remain at zero, or lose your level. Your success in keeping this charisma level up relies on winning races and winning cleanly. If you have to play dirty for a bit, at least do it so that you don't be a thug on the track. The more charisma you have, the more fans will support you and the more exciting victory can be. You might just see fireworks for your victory in the form of confetti or fireworks. You may even receive medals and kind words from fans. Or (how do you feel about this), if you complete 100%, you can unlock a very rare, unlockable car in GT4 and race on a completely secret track for LOTS of money?
 
I mean, make victories more enjoyable and more impactful. Hell, I raced the R246 endurance and didn't get an F1 car (the GT-One Road Car was a VERY nice consolidation, though). I won Grand Valley in GT3 and all I got was a freaking Subaru Impreza LM Car (that I already have). I mean, you go to Hell and back and get basically nothing. That's not expressing importance for your efforts. Sure, winning is fine, but there has to be some muscle behind what you're going through in a race. Granted that Holden is in GT4, what if Eagle plays through an Amateur-level FR championship for maybe a Holden Commodore V8 Supercar, but all he gets is a Daihatsu Midget D-Type? What if McLaren'sAngel wins a mid-engine race with against a McLaren F1 in a tuned-up NSX street car, all to get a Toyota MR-S and a weak amount of money? And what if a muscle-head wins a Muscle Car race in GT4, all to get a Hyundai?

A victory should be as meaningful as completing a license test and winning a license test with gold honors. I know the feeling, having won test after test, proving that I can be a pure champ. All-gold is something I can't say I have. I almost got all gold with the rally tests in GT2, except the Pikes Peak test in the Escudo. But, I kind of feel that a sense of importance is kind of missing in a race experience. How do we make things more impressive?
 
Ah, The thread of Long posts lol, dont mind me continue.
 
Gran Turismo is just about you going out to race cars. It doesn't really need a primary goal, or need to make you feel important. I just play the game to race cars.

But what could help in this regard if you're into that sort of thing, is if the races and championships had some kind of prestige associated with them. Like, say you win a Nürburgring endurence...perhaps an extravegant victory lane or podium scene following the race would do something for you. And the value of your car would go up for having won a famous race like that. And the trophy you got from it could be looked at later on in a trophy room accessed from your home screen
 
gran turismo for me is just a way of getting rid of my need for speed so i dont get too many tickets
 
You want the feeling of importance playing GT games John.
Normally in the real world importance is measured by your success.
In relation to a game I suggest this feeling is a personel thing felt by each player. I do not think that PD is able to factor into the game something as personnel as this feeling you are looking for.
Each person gets a different feeling for each minor step along the way. I suggest the biggest sense of importance the game has to impart to the player is at three levels.
IMO 1st level is winning races, you are made to feel important and are rewarded with prize money and cars.
2nd level is when you achieve 100% completion.
3rd level is golding all the license tests.
I suggest if a player is looking for a feeling of importance from the game your goal is too try to achieve levels 2 and 3. Go get 100% game (GT3) completion and all Gold on licenses on GT3, then come back here and tell us. I think you will have a sense of importance in telling the rest of us.
I tried to make this point a while ago and I think I failed.
I would like to thank John for raising the subject in a way I could respond to. 👍
 
Interesting topic...

Most of the sense of importance, of accomplishment, from games comes from completing the game and feeling like you've overcome a significant challenge. That sense isn't there if you're just monotonously winning races. I'm sure there are a large number of people who derive a great sense of accomplishment from beating certain championships, winning with underpowered cars, getting gold on all the license tests. Personally I won't ever use a car that's anything less than the absolute best I can have, and so that tends to make things easy, but the simple way to make more people feel like they've accomplished something when they beat a series is to make it harder.

My example would be Formula GT. I ran it in a Polyphony002 when I wasn't the best of drivers, and it was damn hard. Having to figure out how fast I could run, work around pit strategies so I'd be in the right place at the right time to take the win, all these things made it really realistic and really challenging to me. Finally taking the chequered flag on Monaco was great. I didn't care about the money, or the cars, I cared about simply having done it. Now I get my finely tuned Polyphony001 and win by over a lap, and it's just not interesting.

I don't think more rewards are an answer. Like I said in another thread, you can win 1/3 of the cars in the game, and I personally have 14 million dollars - I don't think we need any more gifts. If anything, get rid of most of the free gifts. Money, sure. Cars, no. That way when you actually win a car it'll be special.
 
Good question John...

I partly agree with Eagle's post. Winning races that you have to really fight to win (Pit strategies and wheel to wheel fights comming down to the corner) are always the sweetests and funnest races/championships.

I've got a couple more ideas on how to improve you sense of importance.

1. Media attention. As stated above, the more attention you get, the more you like it. As incubusnb said, seeing your name on the cover of "GT RACING Magazine" with a picture of your team in the background would help the importance factor.

2. Fans. Getting mail, packages, etc from your fans would add some importance to your role in the racing world...

3. Sponsors. As your game % goes up, you get more attention/money from different sponsors. Now these can be different car manufacturers or even a GT Logo on the side of your car as the final sponsor...

I believe that winning different trophly for different tracks/championship (and being able to view them afterwards..) would be one of the best way to feel "A sense of importance". This would give you something to showoff when you bring your MC to a friends house, or maybe you can expose your wide collection of prizes online.

"And here I've got the 1st Prize for the 24h Endurence at the Nurburgring, Oh and here is the famous Super Speeway 500 win that I manage to grab on the last corner..."

;)
 
I guess a person whom I can refer to as having gone from one car into another is Boris Said. I respect him as a bona fide road racer (that wants to get into NASCAR I heard recently). But I mean, he's driven SCCA Pro Racing, GT cars, and he was recently won the 24h at the Nurburgring Nordschelife. But convert his racing resume into a video game, and you'd kind of have a sense of importance, because you follow into the footsteps of a highly-respectable race car driver, and you're all "putting it all on the line" by racing and having as much success as he's had.

So my next question is, with someone as diverse in motorsport, do you think Gran Turismo will EVER incorporate a style of racing or a flow of gameplay in which if you're winning races, that you're rewarded for it? Or to ask in a different light, will Gran Turismo really show any sense of importance by racing in multiple types of car in multiple types of races?
 
You want a career racing game then?
Will GT4 offer this? I dont think so.
There is no reason why you cant play GT like this if you wish. Just pick certain races like FWD and follow that path. When that path closes pick another say RWD.
When that finishes or you win a race car you can progress into the Race Car races.
Give it a go. See what it is like.
 
I'm not wanting GT to be a career-based racing game. It would make the GT experience more storyline-based, really. I know I came up with an old topic called "GT4... Storyline?" in the past. But in ways, I do feel that at least passing a License Test and winning decisive races (winning "Italian Avantgarde" brings importance because you don't have to face those thugs ever again even if you want a second go at it. At least it won't affect your win status of that race in the sense of dropping from a gold to a silver). I don't seriously believe racing a bunch of cars around a bunch of tracks is meaningless, if not fun. Gran Turismo's style kind of had other games follow suit. And you know what I'm talking about. Apex, Project Gotham Racing 2, Driving Emotion Type-S, Sega GT... you know where I'm going with this. And when I come up with a topic like this, I usually combine some of my thoughts and compare them with what someone may think.

But I am delighted to share this topic with you all. Keep the replies coming.
 
Back