Specific tire wear problem on a Formula car at Motegi Speedway

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SirBerra

SirBerra

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Right rear (outside rear) tire wear rate.

This is not because I can't win the race or anything like that. I've won the race with 140 A-spec points. This is just a query on what might cause the problem and how to correct it.

I've been experimenting on running on various ballast and downforce settings using several Formula One cars at Motegi Speedway and I'm wondering of this problem is specific only to the Formula One cars. The problem is that the right rear (outside rear) tire wears at a much faster rate than the other three. I've tried various settings such as spring rate, shifting ballast front to rear, traction control, etc., but I can't shift anything enough to offset the wear of that ONE tire. It's driving me crazy trying to guess what to do. I've run other cars that also seem to have built-in wear problems specific to ONE tire on Test Course and I wasn't able to fix it.

My question is has anyone set up their Formula One car and got even rear tire wear or notice a different tire wear faster? Any way to jack the car diagonally? Please explain. Thanks.
 
I don't think there is much to be done, the centrifugal forces together with the heavy rear end of the car load the right rear tyre more than the others.

I would try lowering the front downforce a bit, to make the car understeer slightly more and thus decrease the possible slipping of the rear tyres. Also softer rear springs/stabilizers could help.

Just my ideas,

- R -
 
If you've not done it yet, reduce the toe settings of the rear tires as they're set very high in these cars... Right from stock. That may not reduce the uneven tire wear, but it may slow the wear of the tires over all... Just my two cents on the matter...
 
Canadian Speed
If you've not done it yet, reduce the toe settings of the rear tires as they're set very high in these cars... Right from stock. That may not reduce the uneven tire wear, but it may slow the wear of the tires over all... Just my two cents on the matter...
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This is a must!👍 Default setting is about 6. put it to 0 or 1, and Bob's your Uncle.
 
I thought that it would simply be that the rear tires were driving it forward, and the turning, caused the right rear tyre to spin more
 
Lock the initial diff! IE set it to 60. This should enduce understeer, and thus reduce tyre wear in the rear. Also try to soften up the rear suspension a bit.
 
Team666
Lock the initial diff! IE set it to 60. This should enduce understeer, and thus reduce tyre wear in the rear. Also try to soften up the rear suspension a bit.
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I'll try the differential setting since I've never set it anywhere near that high. I usually run differential settings around 25, 35, 25 as a matter of course. I figured higher settings might greatly hinder speed for some reason. I'm running the rear suspension about 10 .lbs higher than default since I don't like to have the car bottoming out and still keep the ground clearance near minimum. You say soften the rear. About how many pounds are you suggesting or should I just run some exaggerated front/rear setting to experiment with.

Most of my settings are done for my drivability comfort. In a series I don't bother to adjust a car for each race course. One setting fits all is my motto.

I, however, welcome the feedback to solve this ONE tire wear annoyance.
 
NOSBLAST
I thought that it would simply be that the rear tires were driving it forward, and the turning, caused the right rear tyre to spin more
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Well, that is the case in most any rear drive car, but the symptoms seem rather unusual in this case since the Formula car is so light yet can produce a lot of downforce. I've used higher powered LMP cars that did not produce this particular pattern. I just think I'm missing something that might be obvious to a suspension guru to shift weight or something else to change the pattern.
 
SirBerra
I'll try the differential setting since I've never set it anywhere near that high. I usually run differential settings around 25, 35, 25 as a matter of course. I figured higher settings might greatly hinder speed for some reason. I'm running the rear suspension about 10 .lbs higher than default since I don't like to have the car bottoming out and still keep the ground clearance near minimum. You say soften the rear. About how many pounds are you suggesting or should I just run some exaggerated front/rear setting to experiment with.

Most of my settings are done for my drivability comfort. In a series I don't bother to adjust a car for each race course. One setting fits all is my motto.

I, however, welcome the feedback to solve this ONE tire wear annoyance.
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Ok, one thing; never run the FGT lower than 60! I mean, 6 cm (about 2.5 inches, well, 2.5in is aprox 6.5 cm wich would mean 65 mm) is really low in itself, and considering the amount of downforce this car generates, you need a really hard springrate and damping to cope with even 60. Set rear springs to around 12.5 and front to around 12 or lower. Dampers could go for a bounce 3/3 rebound 6/6 setup, or even a 4/4/8/8, but no more.
If you want to, you can also reduce downforce. Make sure you have a 1.4 ratio between front and rear. Front DF times 1.4 equals rear DF. IIRC the highest DF I ever run in the rear on the FGT is 98. Lower DF means less tyrewear, but also less grip in the turns.
 
Team666
Ok, one thing; never run the FGT lower than 60! I mean, 6 cm (about 2.5 inches, well, 2.5in is aprox 6.5 cm wich would mean 65 mm) is really low in itself, and considering the amount of downforce this car generates, you need a really hard springrate and damping to cope with even 60. Set rear springs to around 12.5 and front to around 12 or lower. Dampers could go for a bounce 3/3 rebound 6/6 setup, or even a 4/4/8/8, but no more.
If you want to, you can also reduce downforce. Make sure you have a 1.4 ratio between front and rear. Front DF times 1.4 equals rear DF. IIRC the highest DF I ever run in the rear on the FGT is 98. Lower DF means less tyrewear, but also less grip in the turns.
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Thanks for the settings. I'll certainly try them. I was able to produce a fairly even tire wear by lowering all the downforce to minimum front and rear and still got pretty decent downforce at the Motegi Oval. Three tires wore out (orange) and one (the left rear tire was yellow) was less worn. I never run any of my cars except Jim Hall's 2J with low ground clearance. I hate seeing sparks and I think tires will wear out against the body. I general I have been running the F1 cars with more DF than necessary to get higher cornering forces, but I'll leave that habit behind. As I said, my experiments have nothing to do with winning. It's just a matter of getting better theoretical knowledge of the vehicle settings. I need to be able to correct any major flaws in a car's handling with a minimum of fiddling.

So far I have won five F1 races with the Audi R8 at 200 points, but I'm having serious problems with tire wear at many of the other F1 races and I'm getting flustered. I'm afraid I'm going to have to wuss out and settle for less points.
 
thats weird that it happened to you like that. when i ran that enduro race my front left tire wore fastest followed by my front right and rear left at equal rates, the rear right tire wore down the slowest.

i mean, im turing left haha.

i of course tweaked the toe setting which will kill you if you dont.
 
I got another tire wear problem using a different car at Motegi Speedway Oval. I'm trying for about 150 A-spec points using a well-used carbon black 787B.

A Mazda 787B is using default suspension settings, default downforce settings and default driving aids.

The problem:

Left (outside) front tire wears faster than any other tire. Any quick fix to stop that tire from wearing fastest? I can only get about 33 laps before it turns orange. The other tires are yellow. If I could just shift some wear off that tire, I might be able to get a few more decent laps.

Any suggestions. I can't figure out what to do. I can't use any more downforce. Any way to shift the spring rate, camber or sway bars for a weight transfer? Would possibly a ballast shift help any? I'm just asking since maybe someone stumbled upon a fix. I'd swear that uneven tire wear is built into the vehicle. The Nissans don't have that problem. Their tire wear is spot even. Please toss me some theories or possible fixes.
 
Im confused about this. How can the inside tyres wear more than the outside? The outsides are the ones most loaded on the turns. Is this a bug?
 
SirBerra
Left (outside) front tire wears faster than any other tire. Any quick fix to stop that tire from wearing fastest? I can only get about 33 laps before it turns orange. The other tires are yellow. If I could just shift some wear off that tire, I might be able to get a few more decent laps.

Any suggestions. I can't figure out what to do. I can't use any more downforce. Any way to shift the spring rate, camber or sway bars for a weight transfer? Would possibly a ballast shift help any? I'm just asking since maybe someone stumbled upon a fix.
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Slight increasing of front camber could help as the tyre might be used more effectively and it wouldn't slip so much. Also softening the front stabilizer a notch could help as it would take some load off the said tyre.

These are just ideas off the top of my head, not "the ultimate fixes" but they may help - or then not. Worth trying out, however. :)

- R -
 
FastEddie12
Have you re-set the toe setting? The difference to tyre-wear is astonishing....
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How many laps can I get out of the tyre by doing this?
 
Greycap
Slight increasing of front camber could help as the tyre might be used more effectively and it wouldn't slip so much. Also softening the front stabilizer a notch could help as it would take some load off the said tyre.

These are just ideas off the top of my head, not "the ultimate fixes" but they may help - or then not. Worth trying out, however. :)

- R -
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Thanks, I'll try both methods when I finish my 24 hour race. (What do you consider a slight increase of camber?) I think I must be pushing the turns too hard and getting a lot of slip. I'm using a dual shock and may be putting too much pressure or making too many minute adjustments. It may be my fault for causing this unbalanced tire wear, but I'm only asking to see if I can counteract my poor driving skills by chassis adjustment. Still, it doesn't happen with all the cars I've used, so I'm quick to blame the car.
 

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