sports hard on supercars??

MOTORTRENDmitch

MOTORTRENDmitch

Messages
3,530
Canada
London, Ontario
Messages
Starky513
When you buy a supercar in GT5 (stock) it comes equiped with SH tires. in my opinion, i think some should come with mediums or even soft, depending on real life tires used, example, IRL car performance tests, will almost always say somthing about the tires, ( very grippy/needs grippier tires ) i think the grippier the tire IRL should match the grippier tires in GT5 so when you DO compare 2 super cars in the game, you can get more realistic results.. after all, it is a racing SIM.
 
SH is way too much grip for most supercars. I put them on comfort soft for realism.

EDIT, there's actually a thread on this

"Tire Testing Interesting results" or something like that.
 
im aware, i thought this was diff, but also good point :P
 
I don't agree with Exorcet, though each to their own.

The stock tyre choices are there for a reason, and Comfort tyres are generally for "comfort" driving in pretty standard cars, perhaps a few coupes and such too. Typically high performance sports cars and supercars will have more dedicated tyres, represented in GT as "Sports" tyres. You wouldn't have the same tread pattern on a Veyron's tyres as a Micra.

Then we are given the option to upgrade to softer sports tyres more designed for testing and track days with faster degradation, you can buy these in "real life" too, a friend of mine showed me a set on his Caterham R500 just the other day, most of the tread was almost slick/flat, but if he used them day-to-day they would wear out very quickly.

IMHO the "stock" tyre choice in GT5 and the range is almost bang-on, and very obvious when it appears to be wrong, such as the Special Event with the Elise on Comfort tyres, where it handles like a shopping cart.
 
GT5 assigns tires only by power/weight ratio, so it's methods aren't really accurate. Note that every Pre 70's car comes with comfort soft, which provides about 1 g of cornering. This is obviously wrong. Even modern cars like the Mini Cooper and Mustang get full 1g ratings just by giving them the same tire. GT5's tire model isn't accurate enough to really be called bang on, in my opinion.

The names don't mean anything by the way. Comfort Soft provides ~1g of grip, close to real life laptimes, and decent handling feel for sporty cars. And most road legal tires could be considered "comfort", as there is a definite gap between a regular tire and street slicks like the Pilot Sport Cup (I consider that tire to be SH in GT5.)

A side note, but the special event Lotus wasn't on stock tires. The Lotus has enough hp/weight for SH. It was put on CH by PD on a whim for the Top Gear race.
 
Exorcet
A side note, but the special event Lotus wasn't on stock tires. The Lotus has enough hp/weight for SH. It was put on CH by PD on a whim for the Top Gear race.
Click to expand...

I didn't say they were stock, on the contrary they are the "wrong" choice and it's very obvious in the handling. But with your logic, these are the correct choice, rather than Sports tyres?

Didn't know PD's apparent criteria for the tyre choices, will look into that, interesting. I would agree that older cars, muscle cars and such should have Comfort tyres as they don't come close in terms of grip to modern more specialist tyres, but if you were racing or testing you wouldn't use the original stock tyres, you would use something equivalent to Sports Soft, or at least Sports Medium/Hard, if you use the car on the road a lot too and need more durability.

Keep in mind that although billed as "The Real Driving Simulator", GT is mostly about testing or racing on closed circuits (what I wouldn't give for huge, point to point driving for leisure though, with perhaps a little traffic), and for the most part if you only bought a car for this, you wouldn't use the boots they give you straight out of the dealership.

Anyway different strokes for different folks I guess, ultimately it's whatever you prefer that counts :)
 
Last edited:
It depends on the tires, really. Calan_SVC did an interesting research and even came up with a calculator to find out the right tire to get the best stock performance: http://tiny.cc/eboww

All you basically need is the real life skid pad test result and Road and Track magazine has a good collection of test data here: http://tiny.cc/8d1dv

In GT5 Prologue, PD included a list of real world performance tires for each of the 60+ cars in the game (there were two sets, really, one to simulate freshly fitted tires and the other normal worn tires) and understandably left it out of GT5 but as a replacement, I find Calan_SVC list just as indispensable: http://tiny.cc/eboww

Depending on your use- when I do Time-trial or practice lap because there's no tire wear/temperature, I tend to drop one compound down.
 
mykem
Depending on your use- when I do Time-trial or practice lap because there's no tire wear/temperature, I tend to drop one compound down.
Click to expand...

Are you sure? I thought there was tyre degradation in Practice, pretty sure it shows up on the little diagram, also having tested MANY cars on the same track I often found the tyres seemed to really come in after 2 or 3 laps and depending on the car, start to drop off after 10 laps or so. Perhaps I imagined it!
 
Exorcet
GT5 assigns tires only by power/weight ratio, so it's methods aren't really accurate. Note that every Pre 70's car comes with comfort soft, which provides about 1 g of cornering. This is obviously wrong. Even modern cars like the Mini Cooper and Mustang get full 1g ratings just by giving them the same tire. GT5's tire model isn't accurate enough to really be called bang on, in my opinion.

The names don't mean anything by the way. Comfort Soft provides ~1g of grip, close to real life laptimes, and decent handling feel for sporty cars. And most road legal tires could be considered "comfort", as there is a definite gap between a regular tire and street slicks like the Pilot Sport Cup (I consider that tire to be SH in GT5.)

A side note, but the special event Lotus wasn't on stock tires. The Lotus has enough hp/weight for SH. It was put on CH by PD on a whim for the Top Gear race.
Click to expand...
First off, some come with optional DOT legal 2/32 tread tires called Michelin something something cup tires, which are similar to drag radials, and do not whatsoever fit into a "comfort" category.

Second off, any super car of today can easily reach 1.2 lateral G's in a corner, they just can't sustain those G's on a skidpad, because you can't slide and stay on the skidpad.

What you read in skidpad results is a good test, but has no reflection on what the car can actually be driven at while racing, I've seen as high as 1.28 for a stock 2003 Viper, which only held about 1.01 on the skidpad.
 
Tyger
I didn't say they were stock, on the contrary they are the "wrong" choice and it's very obvious in the handling. But with your logic, these are the correct choice, rather than Sports tyres?
Click to expand...
No, CH is incorrect according to me. The Lotus would use CS.

but if you were racing or testing you wouldn't use the original stock tyres, you would use something equivalent to Sports Soft, or at least Sports Medium/Hard
Click to expand...
That all depends on the race. Auto Cross isn't in GT5, but players can set up such events. Many cars run those events on stock tires. There are also track days, and just plain stock road car series.

Keep in mind that although billed as "The Real Driving Simulator", GT is mostly about testing or racing on closed circuits (what I wouldn't give for huge, point to point driving for leisure though, with perhaps a little traffic), and for the most part if you only bought a car for this, you wouldn't use the boots they give you straight out of the dealership.
Click to expand...
Yes, it is very much a racing game before anything else.

mykem
All you basically need is the real life skid pad test result and Road and Track magazine has a good collection of test data here: http://tiny.cc/8d1dv
Click to expand...
The skidpad is the basis for the tire calculator and my own tire selection (along with lap times on the latter), but that's not enough for a 100% accurate selection.

In GT5 Prologue, PD included a list of real world performance tires for each of the 60+ cars in the game
Click to expand...
It was horribly wrong. The GT-R was able to pull 1.5 g "stock".

CSLACR
First off, some come with optional DOT legal 2/32 tread tires called Michelin something something cup tires
Click to expand...
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup. I mentioned those and they would be SH or maybe SM in extreme cases.

Second off, any super car of today can easily reach 1.2 lateral G's in a corner, they just can't sustain those G's on a skidpad, because you can't slide and stay on the skidpad.
Click to expand...
Yes, but measuring transient grip in game is difficult and bound to be inaccurate so I use skidpad.

What you read in skidpad results is a good test, but has no reflection on what the car can actually be driven at while racing, I've seen as high as 1.28 for a stock 2003 Viper, which only held about 1.01 on the skidpad.
Click to expand...
CS tires can exceed their skidpad grip. And in long corners, the skidpad grip is more important than peak grip.

I know that skidpad is only so accurate, that's why I also lap cars on Comfort and Sports tires and compare them to determine what's more accurate.
 
i agree with exorcet. if you are looking for realism then sport hard tires are the best you should use. if you are looking for controleable grip in supercars and a pleasent driving experience then obviously sport medium or sport soft will give you that.
 
All will make sense when you'll realize that in GT5 with "comfort tires" PD really meant "summer tires" and that with "sports tires", "semislick tires".
 
Many cars should have CS no better than SH. I think the Viper ACR should have SM stock.
 
Downgrading tyres for the majority of cars has given me times much closer to the real thing and much better competition with the AI.
 
I think PD should model the tires for each car so the stock tires mimics the ones the car comes with IRL, and these confort, sports, etc should be only available on the tuning shop. It would be the ideal scenario but also the most time consuming in development. This current method causes a lot of confusion when it comes to tires.
 
i put comfort tires on my drift cars... LOL

comforts are what would be on the very cheap cars in this game. like the 70's cars, and the preludes, basically non performance cars

sports hards are definitely what most of the sports cars in this game would come with IRL

sport soft would be street legal, high performance tires, for example falken azenis.

racing tires are obviously slicks, however i believe racing hards are the best option, i dont find racing softs to be realistic at all
 
When I'm bored I like to choose a track and do a "Supercar shootout" and see which of my selected supercars is fastest out of 3-5 laps.

I always use SH tyres and they feel the most realistic to me. CS is not enough grip and anything above SH feels a bit too racey and I cant imagine a road car having sports soft tyres.
 
I mostly drive sports hard on cars like M3 E92 with about 300 - 500 hp. Even Ferraris and others drive quite nice on sports hard, but you have to warm up the tyres, before they have optimum grip.
 
TiZzla
When I'm bored I like to choose a track and do a "Supercar shootout" and see which of my selected supercars is fastest out of 3-5 laps.

I always use SH tyres and they feel the most realistic to me. CS is not enough grip and anything above SH feels a bit too racey and I cant imagine a road car having sports soft tyres.
Click to expand...

The Mine's Evo 6 comes out with Sports Soft standard, that's a road car. :)
 
mafia_boy
I'm sure there were a couple that even though they were tuners were running on Sports Hard.
Click to expand...

Indeed there are. Amuse S2000 R1 and Street Version come on SH, Spoon CR-Z is Comfort Softs, maybe the Mugen and Spoon S2000's come on SH too? Obviously the drift machines come on Comfort Softs. I also know the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution Super Rally Car comes on Sports Hard where as every other rally car comes on SM.

As a general rule:

CM - Slowest road cars
CS - ~125-250hp road cars, drift cars
SH - all other road cars + a few tuners
SM - Rally cars
SS - Tuner cars
RH - Race cars
 
I think the Sports Hard tires are OK on supercars. Limitations on tire grip makes the cars more interesting to drive (for me).

I usually race the A-spec races and Seasonals on the same tires the AI are using. But, if I'm running a very underpowered car, I will upgrade the tires.

In online lobbies, I use the same tires as the rest of the field. I look for street car races on sports tires (or less). But, I'll use racing tires when that's what everyone else is using.
 
I saw F458 skidding (doing circles) with 1.0-1.03g on TGTT and when lapping the grip reached 1.3-1.4G. This is easily explained and remember that tires not only provide grip sideways but also during acc-deceleration which is tested explains why SH are the tires for powerful vehicles in GT5.
 
Back