SRT-4 Tribute Video

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Nope. If it were, it'd be a trim option like the SXT and ES trim. Instead it's a whole seperate car. Even though it's strikingly similar to the Neon. :p Just like Mazda did (or was thinking) about dropping the Miata name.
 
We'll I'll get back to you when ours does. You might be waiting quite awhile though.
 
RO_JA
Nope. If it were, it'd be a trim option like the SXT and ES trim. Instead it's a whole seperate car. Even though it's strikingly similar to the Neon. :p Just like Mazda did (or was thinking) about dropping the Miata name.

A trim option, you mean...Like this?

Although I really don't see why it isn't a whole other car, the Neon and the SRT-4 look nothing alike.
 
Guys, I know people on the PVO development team, I'm a retired admin at www.neons.org, and trust me, it's a Neon.

It uses most of the chassis, sheet metal, suspension components, most interior parts and incidental engine accessories/components. The hood and fascia are different, obviously.

It's got the corporate 2.4 instead of the Neon's 2.0; however, they are fundamentally the same engine. The long block is identical between the two except the 2.4 has an inch longer stroke for the increased displacement. I put one in my wife's old Neon; I know the differences and they are negligible. The 2.0 DOHC from the old Neon shares the head with the previous 2.4 DOHC; the new head will bolt on an old block but the porting and passages were massaged for the PT Cruiser application and that head was adopted across the line in 2001. The SRT has a redesigned transmission with a 3-pack clutch instead of a 2-pack to handle the increased torque, and the rest of the internals were beefed slightly.

But really, other than the changes required to fit the engine in and deal with the output, it's a Neon. Daimler management would not greenlight the project unless it could initially be sold at a profit for under $20,000. They also were extremely grudging with the engineering budget. Daimler management did not want this car to exist, and they placed so many restrictions on it that most of it had to be kept in place from the Neon.

In fact, we owe it's existence to a bunch of volunteer assembly line workers and PVO guys who firgured out, on their own time, a different way to install the 2.4 turbo powertrain that simplified the process. This is what finally allowed the car to slip under the $20,000 price ceiling.

So a big 'bite me!' goes out from Belvidere Assembly plant to Germany.
VIPFREAK
:lol: I'd really just be worried about the thing falling appart on me. :scared:
I've flogged the living daylights out of my 1995 Neon ACR since the day I bought it in 1999. The previous owner used it as a daily driver, track day car, and autocrosser. I've driven it hard every day, and autocrossed it occasionally to boot.

At 100,000 miles it's never suffered a mechanical failure except the headgasket, which was fixed out of warranty by Chrysler. The original clutch is strong and tight; it's only had one set of replacement brake pads despite turning scores of laps at Road Atlanta. It passes emissions even with a Mopar Performance computer installed. It's never stranded me, ever.

I'm not worried about it falling apart. I know it won't.
 
Like I said before... it may not be the engine or drivetrain that goes but there are lots of other little things that can too.
 
VIPFREAK
Like I said before... it may not be the engine or drivetrain that goes but there are lots of other little things that can too.
In a total of 190,000 hard miles, here is the list of things I've had to repair or replace on both of my Neons put together:

1) Headgaskets - both cars, repaired by Chrysler, even out of warranty

2) Brake pads - in 190,000 miles, the cars had one set of replacement pads each

3) Oxygen sensors - these have a 60,000 mile lifespan; in 190,000 total miles I've replaced 3 of the 4, so I'm getting better than rated life.

4) Shifter bushings on the ACR - lasted 70,000 miles, $10 in parts, 10 minutes to fix

5) Cam position sensor on the ACR - lasted 96,000 miles, $45 in parts, 10 minutes to fix

6) Clutch cable on the ACR - lasted 50,000 miles, $60 in parts, 1 hour to fix

7) Oil pressure sensor on the Sport - lasted 60,000 miles, $25 in parts, 20 minutes to fix

8) The roof of the ACR needed to be repainted; fixed by Chrysler way out of warranty at 50% cost.

I've had to repair or replace NO interior parts, NO trim parts, NO body parts, NO mechanical parts not listed above. The wear items like brake pads and clutch have given phenomenal life. Everything inside still works, the seats are still comfortable, the switches all still feel fine. The steering is nice and crisp and it doesn't rattle from worn out CV joints like every 10-year-old Honda does.

You really shouldn't believe everything your JDM-fanatic friends tell you. They're probably just PO'd because a Neon tore their Civic a new one at the Stoplight Nationals.
 
Ghost C
A trim option, you mean...Like this?

Although I really don't see why it isn't a whole other car, the Neon and the SRT-4 look nothing alike.

Ignore.. whatever I still think it's not a neon if it came from the chassis frame or whatever. Dodge says so, so it is.

Same here, Duke. Our '99 (now sold) had only one mechanical failure which was a headgasket. That's it.
 
Duke
...You really shouldn't believe everything your JDM-fanatic friends tell you. They're probably just PO'd because a Neon tore their Civic a new one at the Stoplight Nationals.

Hey, keep in mind I never said anything about the regular Neon. They're great little auto-x cars. SRT-4 owners suffer from SCOS - Sport Compact Owner Syndrome. Basically, in proportion to how much horsepower the car actually has, there is the added Sport-Compacts-Are-In-Right-Now variable, which makes the owner think the car is actually faster than it is. A Civic can beat on Mustangs. An SRT-4 can beat on Cobras. Obviously this is true, because sport compacts are in right now, and they wouldn't be unless they could beat on real sports cars.

Build quality is a whole other issue. SRT-4's may be built better than my DeVille (doubt it), but I'll never know because I'd never drive one. They're brightly colored, tarted up economy cars that have terrible traction problems. I just think that people should stop praising the SRT-4 as if Jesus himself built the car, and I think magazines should stop lying to people about it's performance (Ahem, C&D) because I'm going to end up running over the next SRT-4 owner who talks about how great his car is and how it can beat any car ever, and then refusing to race. I will use temporary insanity as a defense and sue the mags for making it happen, and I will win because this is the US and people can sue McDonald's for spilling hot coffee on themselves and get $3,000,000. [/end rant]

I hate Civics too. If someone makes a funny video about Civics, I'll post it up too.
 
Why do you doubt the test equipment of Car & Driver ? It rivals most manufacturers equipement. They are not owned by the manufacturer either, so why would they fudge test results ? They are an editorial based magazine, will spit and rave about cars they hate, but will give kudos to cars that deserve it ( albeit in their own opinion ) ...
 
Ghost C
Hey, keep in mind I never said anything about the regular Neon. They're great little auto-x cars. SRT-4 owners suffer from SCOS - Sport Compact Owner Syndrome. Basically, in proportion to how much horsepower the car actually has, there is the added Sport-Compacts-Are-In-Right-Now variable, which makes the owner think the car is actually faster than it is. A Civic can beat on Mustangs. An SRT-4 can beat on Cobras. Obviously this is true, because sport compacts are in right now, and they wouldn't be unless they could beat on real sports cars.

Build quality is a whole other issue. SRT-4's may be built better than my DeVille (doubt it), but I'll never know because I'd never drive one. They're brightly colored, tarted up economy cars that have terrible traction problems. I just think that people should stop praising the SRT-4 as if Jesus himself built the car, and I think magazines should stop lying to people about it's performance (Ahem, C&D) because I'm going to end up running over the next SRT-4 owner who talks about how great his car is and how it can beat any car ever, and then refusing to race. I will use temporary insanity as a defense and sue the mags for making it happen, and I will win because this is the US and people can sue McDonald's for spilling hot coffee on themselves and get $3,000,000. [/end rant]

I hate Civics too. If someone makes a funny video about Civics, I'll post it up too.

Well dodge's color is Red, the only "brightly coloured" colour that is available to the SRT-4 is the Orange Blast.

Father floored it in pouring rain and had little to no traction problems

You need to stop critizing this car just because you don't own it or just don't plain like it.
 
TwinTurboJay
Why do you doubt the test equipment of Car & Driver ? It rivals most manufacturers equipement. They are not owned by the manufacturer either, so why would they fudge test results ? They are an editorial based magazine, will spit and rave about cars they hate, but will give kudos to cars that deserve it ( albeit in their own opinion ) ...

Well, they tested a 230hp FWD car as going almost as fast from 0-60 as the Mk. IV Supra Turbo (5.5s), faster than the FD RX-7 (5.9s), and exactly as fast as the 3000GT VR-4 (5.6s). Gee, why don't I believe that. All of these cars have a significantly better power to weight ratio, with the RX-7 being lighter and having more power, and the advantage of RWD.

RO_JA
Father floored it in pouring rain and had little to no traction problems

What, in third gear at 40mph? I can floor it in my car in the pouring rain and not have traction problems too, if I'm moving already. I have more torque, and my transmission automatically downshifts. What's your point here? That's not any sort of test - They have traction problems, proven fact. Read the SRT-4 owner's website.

You need to stop critizing this car just because you don't own it or just don't plain like it.

Uh...No? I criticize the car because it's overrated. Maybe you need to stop defending it because you own one or you like it! :rolleyes:
 
Ghost C
Well, they tested a 230hp FWD car as going almost as fast from 0-60 as the Mk. IV Supra Turbo (5.5s), faster than the FD RX-7 (5.9s), and exactly as fast as the 3000GT VR-4 (5.6s). Gee, why don't I believe that. All of these cars have a significantly better power to weight ratio, with the RX-7 being lighter and having more power, and the advantage of RWD.



What, in third gear at 40mph? I can floor it in my car in the pouring rain and not have traction problems too, if I'm moving already. I have more torque, and my transmission automatically downshifts. What's your point here? That's not any sort of test - They have traction problems, proven fact. Read the SRT-4 owner's website.



Uh...No? I criticize the car because it's overrated. Maybe you need to stop defending it because you own one or you like it! :rolleyes:


you bring up a 3800 lbs. car and talk about srt-4 having worse power to weight ratio? Also, the 3000 gt only had 215 ft lbs of torque... the other thing is gearing...the srt-4 wasn't meant to be a highspeed kind, is was geared to take off like a bat out hell!
 
Ghost C
Well, they tested a 230hp FWD car as going almost as fast from 0-60 as the Mk. IV Supra Turbo (5.5s), faster than the FD RX-7 (5.9s), and exactly as fast as the 3000GT VR-4 (5.6s). Gee, why don't I believe that. All of these cars have a significantly better power to weight ratio, with the RX-7 being lighter and having more power, and the advantage of RWD.
For one, Mark IV Supra's were absolutely notorius for wheelspin, because the had 325 lb. ft. of torque. For the 3000GT, I can understand how 1000lbs extra weight wouldn't effect acceleration at all. :dunce: And the advantage of rear-wheel drive is not in acceleration, it's in handling. Front wheel drive cars have better weight distribution than rear-wheel drivers for acceleration. Why do you think old Porsche 911's were so fast before 4WD?



Ghost C
What, in third gear at 40mph? I can floor it in my car in the pouring rain and not have traction problems too, if I'm moving already. I have more torque, and my transmission automatically downshifts. What's your point here? That's not any sort of test - They have traction problems, proven fact. Read the SRT-4 owner's website.
Many torquey cars have traction problems. It's a fact. A simple one too.



Ghost C
Uh...No? I criticize the car because it's overrated. Maybe you need to stop defending it because you own one or you like it! :rolleyes:
I'm sure someone who actually owns the car would haver a better opinion of how well it drives, because they, you know, own it.
 
Duke
You really shouldn't believe everything your JDM-fanatic friends tell you.

I don't I believe what I've heard from other neon owners and reputable car mags like Motor Trend. I never did understand the poin in JDM... WTF, I'll pay more for stock crap just because you can't get it here. Because it looks cool, Smart... :lol:
 
TwinTurboJay
you bring up a 3800 lbs. car and talk about srt-4 having worse power to weight ratio? Also, the 3000 gt only had 215 ft lbs of torque... the other thing is gearing...the srt-4 wasn't meant to be a highspeed kind, is was geared to take off like a bat out hell!

It may be 3,800lbs, but it also has 320hp and 315ft/lbs of torque. The Supra and VR-4 both have 6 speeds, and were geared favorably for all aspects of acceleration, not just top end.

Toronado
For one, Mark IV Supra's were absolutely notorius for wheelspin, because the had 325 lb. ft. of torque. For the 3000GT, I can understand how 1000lbs extra weight wouldn't effect acceleration at all. :dunce:

So you're saying SRT-4's aren't known for wheelspin?

And the advantage of rear-wheel drive is not in acceleration, it's in handling. Front wheel drive cars have better weight distribution than rear-wheel drivers for acceleration. Why do you think old Porsche 911's were so fast before 4WD?

Yeah, FWD's take off way harder than RWD's, especially because under hard acceleration, the weight shifts to the drive wheels for better traction...Wait.

Many torquey cars have traction problems. It's a fact. A simple one too.

My car has more torque than the SRT-4, a softer rear suspension, and I don't have traction problems. The SRT-4 has traction problems because it sucks.

I'm sure someone who actually owns the car would haver a better opinion of how well it drives, because they, you know, own it.

Which is exactly why someone who owns the car should argue with me. Not someone who sits in the passenger seat while their parents drive.
 
Ghost C
So you're saying SRT-4's aren't known for wheelspin?
No. I'm just saying that one of the reasons that the Toyota Supra's acceleration times may be low is due to wheelspin. Their 1/4 of a mile times are better in this respect: 13.1 seconds for the Supra @ 106 vs. 13.9 sec @ 103 mph for the Neon. That being said, I've seen Supra 0-60 times of 4.6s. As such, the 3000GT's weight betrayed it. 0-60 did come in 4.8 due to it;s 4WD, but it's 1/4 times were considerably slower: 1/4 mile in 13.6 seconds @ 100.5. These are all according to Motor Trend.

Ghost C
Yeah, FWD's take off way harder than RWD's, especially because under hard acceleration, the weight shifts to the drive wheels for better traction...Wait.
Not if the FWD car has a hard rear suspension.

Ghost C
My car has more torque than the SRT-4, a softer rear suspension, and I don't have traction problems. The SRT-4 has traction problems because it sucks.
If your car is FWD, you just explained why your point wasn't valid right there.

Ghost C
Which is exactly why someone who owns the car should argue with me. Not someone who sits in the passenger seat while their parents drive.
Okay, I misundertood your reply.
 
Ghost C
What, in third gear at 40mph? I can floor it in my car in the pouring rain and not have traction problems too, if I'm moving already. I have more torque, and my transmission automatically downshifts. What's your point here? That's not any sort of test - They have traction problems, proven fact. Read the SRT-4 owner's website.

Are you stupid? No first gear at a dead stop.
 
Toronado
Not if the FWD car has a hard rear suspension.

The rear suspension would have to be unmoveable in order to stop rearward weight transfer under acceleration. It happens - RWD has the advantage almost everywhere except for possibly high speed stability, which is still questionable.

If your car is FWD, you just explained why your point wasn't valid right there.

A soft rear suspension in a FWD means that even more weight transfers to the rear, meaning I should have even less traction.

RO_JA
Are you stupid? No first gear at a dead stop.

Of course it didn't. Nevermind that my grandfather's Toyota Solara with BFG g-Force T/A's, 160hp, and zero torque spins in even the mildest of rain with liberal applications of WOT from a dead stop, I fully, one hundred percent believe your story. The traction fairy has obviously blessed your dad's SRT-4 with the best grip ever known to mankind, seeing as the SRT-4 is, afterall, god's gift to automobiles.
 
Ghost C
The rear suspension would have to be unmoveable in order to stop rearward weight transfer under acceleration. It happens - RWD has the advantage almost everywhere except for possibly high speed stability, which is still questionable.
It doesn't matter. Because the weight is over the driving wheels, a rather stiff rear end would suffice enough to prevent wheelspin in most cases. Especially in adverse conditions.

Ghost C
A soft rear suspension in a FWD means that even more weight transfers to the rear, meaning I should have even less traction.
I'm sorry, I didn't elaborate. A soft rear end implies a soft front end (and this usually rings true), which diminishes the effect of weight transfer, because more of the weight is normally sitting on the front than would be the case with a hard front end. This would diminish the amount of weight transfer towards the rear (or, more precisely, it's effects) as the front of the car was sitting squat to begin with. A soft suspension also limits amounts of wheelspin in itslef. You also forget that while torque is the main force behind acceleration, BHP also has an effect on wheelspin. I assume whatever car you own is FWD with a turbocharged motor of some sort, so while it probably has torque, it may not be tuned for BHP (though, not knowing what your car is, I don't really know). Your car also likely weighs more than the SRT-4, which also has effects on wheelspin.
 
Toronado
I'm sorry, I didn't elaborate. A soft rear end implies a soft front end (and this usually rings true), which diminishes the effect of weight transfer, because more of the weight is normally sitting on the front than would be the case with a hard front end. This would diminish the amount of weight transfer towards the rear (or, more precisely, it's effects) as the front of the car was sitting squat to begin with. A soft suspension also limits amounts of wheelspin in itslef.

Fairly true. But the rear end is loads softer than the front.

You also forget that while torque is the main force behind acceleration, BHP also has an effect on wheelspin. I assume whatever car you own is FWD with a turbocharged motor of some sort, so while it probably has torque, it may not be tuned for BHP (though, not knowing what your car is, I don't really know). Your car also likely weighs more than the SRT-4, which also has effects on wheelspin.

It's FWD. But it's got a 4.9 N/A V8, producing 275ft/lbs at 3,000rpm (240 to the wheels off idle) and 200hp at 4,100rpm, and yes, it weighs more than the SRT-4 by about 200lbs. If you want to know more, the link to my car domain page is in my sig.

I think I'm done arguing my point, as this could go from a fairly friendly debate to an all out war pretty quick.
 

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