Starting research on my next car

[CDailey]

My current car, a 2007 Honda Accord sedan, while being very practical, isn't very fun. So in the next year, I'm looking at getting a new car. Within the next year, i should have my Accord paid down enough that i can trade it in for more than i owe, or at least be able to afford another small car payment. This is where you come in GTP. I want something fun yet practical and reliable enough to possibly be a daily driver if I trade the Accord in. I want a more performance oriented car, or at least something fairly quick in a straight line. I'm thinking my budget will be around $15,000-$20,000. So far, the only car I've done any real research on is a W210 (99-02) Mercedes Benz E55 AMG. Another car I'm particularly interested in is the E39 BMW M5. I know these German cars can be pricey to repair if something happens to go wrong, so I will have an emergency repair fund should I end up with either of them, or something similar.

I don't have any real preferences for manufacturers, drive wheels or engine size, though I do prefer sedans just for practicalities sake. I will consider other body styles though. I would prefer a newer, nicer car, but I will consider an older/cheaper car if it is interesting/uncommon enough. I do not want a project car, or something that is slower than what I already have. I don't want to have to throw money into a car after I buy it to make it any quicker than my Accord.

So, anyone have any comments or experience with the cars I named? Or can anyone suggest some other cars I should research? If theres anything else you need to know, just ask. Thanks GTP!

 

[Rotary Junkie]

2003-7/8 Mazda6 V6 5-speed manual.

More fun than a barrel of monkeys down the right road while still being a very good Camry.

Oh, and they made a wagon which is still just as fun but you can load half of Ikea into the back of it with no worries.

 

[eSZee]

Yeah, I'll agree. Mazda fans are pretty damn fun compared to the competition. Maybe even an older TSX could be had for your price, not sure.
The benz and bimmer you can afford up front but repairs on an AMG and M car could potentially be trouble. The only people I know with Ms and AMGs are either bringing in $x00k a year or have parents with deep pockets.
That's my way of thinking at least. If I can't afford to upkeep/maintain a brand new $100k car, then buying a used car that used to be $100k is most likely a bad idea.

 

[Mark II Blit]

Auto Bild described the W210 as a "Schnellroster" You need to be careful when buying one of those. They have major problems with rusting. Make sure it has been protected and a sudden outbreak of rust isn't right around the corner.
The M5 should be reliable apart from the crappy VANOS VVT system that is prone to failure, and costs around $500-1000 when it does. But as the other mention, they are very expensive to maintain.

Mazda6 or Acura sounds like a good suggestion. Fast, cheap, fun, spacious.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

+1 on the Acura TSX. My dad owns the 2nd generation model and while the electric steering kills some of the fun and confidence, which I'm pretty sure the 1st gen doesn't have, it's got a pretty good chassis and, if you get the 6-cog stick shift, a properly good gearbox. Engine isn't too bad either; the K24A i-VTEC pumps out 205hp and much unlike my Accord it actually has some low-down torque as well.

 

[CDailey]

Yeah, I'll agree. Mazda fans are pretty damn fun compared to the competition. Maybe even an older TSX could be had for your price, not sure.
The benz and bimmer you can afford up front but repairs on an AMG and M car could potentially be trouble. The only people I know with Ms and AMGs are either bringing in $x00k a year or have parents with deep pockets.
That's my way of thinking at least. If I can't afford to upkeep/maintain a brand new $100k car, then buying a used car that used to be $100k is most likely a bad idea.

According to the research I've done on the E55, upkeep isn't as nightmarish as one would assume. Plenty of people who own them with over 100k miles on the odo with only regular maintenance performed. I also know that pretty much any German car is expensive to repair and that it would be foolish to buy one without an emergency repair fund.

+1 on the Acura TSX. My dad owns the 2nd generation model and while the electric steering kills some of the fun and confidence, which I'm pretty sure the 1st gen doesn't have, it's got a pretty good chassis and, if you get the 6-cog stick shift, a properly good gearbox. Engine isn't too bad either; the K24A i-VTEC pumps out 205hp and much unlike my Accord it actually has some low-down torque as well.

-1 for the TSX. Its just an Accord in drag.

 

[eSZee]

-1 for the TSX. Its just an Accord in drag.

If you were talking about the euro accord then yes.

Ok, what else have you looked at? Or is this going to be another thread where you already have your mind set and just waiting for someone to approve of your choices?

 

[CDailey]

If you were talking about the euro accord then yes.

Ok, what else have you looked at? Or is this going to be another thread where you already have your mind set and just waiting for someone to approve of your choices?

US first gen TSX is mechanically the same as US 7th gen Accord except for a better flowing intake and exhaust. Interior is slightly better and everything else is cosmetic.

Like I stated in my first post, this purchase is at least a year away and the only car I've researched so far is the E55 and I just said I was interested in the E39 M5. I also asked for suggestions. I don't know how you think I'm just trying to get someone to validate some decision you say I've already made. All I did in my post was point out that one car that was suggested is basically the exact same thing I'm driving now and the complete opposite of what I'm looking for.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

US first gen TSX is mechanically the same as US 7th gen Accord except for a better flowing intake and exhaust. Interior is slightly better and everything else is cosmetic.

No. It's the RoW Accord with Acura badges.

 

[JCE]

You know you want one. It ticks every single box.

Bugeye FTMFW!


[/thread]

 

[CDailey]

It briefly crossed my mind, but will I be able to find one that has been driven into the ground by a bro?

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Oh. I should add here that the only thing motor-side that the TSX and US Accord share is the lower end. The head itself (and that attached to it) is completely different. Juuust sayin'.

Then there's the bit where the TSX is not the US Accord in terms of chassis either. So it doesn't suck, unlike your current Accord.

Edit: Aren't you another of those who made one of these threads then bought something completely different from what you first had in mind?

Also, Miata.

 

[disinfected]

Miata and M5 in the same comparison. Strange.

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

Get a Pontiac G8. Super cool, and now super rare.
Also, you can get a Infiniti G35 sedans, Lexus IS, 300C SRT8/Charger SRT8 (though may not fall in your price range).

 

[JCE]

CDailey, you can find taken care of Bugeye WRX's for that price...but are rare. Worth it if you can locate one.

Get a Pontiac G8. Super cool, and now super rare.
Also, you can get a Infiniti G35 sedans, Lexus IS, 300C SRT8/Charger SRT8 (though may not fall in your price range).

The 03-04 G35 is the only car in his price range legitimately. The IS can be had however they would be ragged out for that price. Just forget the Chrysler cars for that price.

 

[CDailey]

Oh. I should add here that the only thing motor-side that the TSX and US Accord share is the lower end. The head itself (and that attached to it) is completely different. Juuust sayin'.

Then there's the bit where the TSX is not the US Accord in terms of chassis either. So it doesn't suck, unlike your current Accord.

I must have misunderstood everything I've read then (which, granted, wasn't much). It was to my understanding that the only major difference between the Accord engine and TSX engine were a less restrictive intake system and more free flowing exhaust system.

Either way my point still stands. A TSX is still the complete opposite of what I'm looking for.

Edit: Aren't you another of those who made one of these threads then bought something completely different from what you first had in mind?

Also, Miata.

I made a thread about my first car a few years ago. I wanted a P71 Crown Vic but it wasn't my money that was being spent so the final decision was not mine.

Also, a Miata is also the complete opposite of what I'm looking for. It may be fun in the twisties but it's not any faster than my Accord.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Also, a Miata is also the complete opposite of what I'm looking for. It may be fun in the twisties but it's not any faster than my Accord.

Wasn't the problem with the Accord that it's practical but "not very fun"?

Oh, right.

I want a more performance oriented car, or at least something fairly quick in a straight line.

To me that says it either needs to be fast or a bit more performance oriented.

The TSX is both, unless the Accord is a V6.

The Mazda6 is both, unless the Accord is a V6.

The Miata is more performance oriented but admittedly slower in a straight line (though that is easily fixed).

An E55 or E39 M5 would be both but I really, REALLY don't think you're remotely prepared for the repair costs seeing as they've not gotten any cheaper to fix and have started to have more issues at this point.

So... 330i? Reasonably quick, reasonably performance oriented, won't completely murder you with upkeep (i.e it won't cost half the car when something resembling major breaks), etc.

 

[CDailey]

The Miata is more performance oriented but admittedly slower in a straight line (though that is easily fixed).

Easily remedied yes, but I do not want a project car or something I'm going to have to throw money into in order to make it any faster than my Accord. That's my mistake for not mentioning that in the first post. Think I'll go edit that now...

An E55 or E39 M5 would be both but I really, REALLY don't think you're remotely prepared for the repair costs seeing as they've not gotten any cheaper to fix and have started to have more issues at this point.

Thanks for looking out for my financial well being and all, but I'm pretty sure I know what I can and can't afford much better than you do.

So... 330i? Reasonably quick, reasonably performance oriented, won't completely murder you with upkeep (i.e it won't cost half the car when something resembling major breaks), etc.

Not a bad suggestion, especially if it is equipped with the ZHP package.

 

[eSZee]

Get a Pontiac G8. Super cool, and now super rare.

For $15k?

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

For $15k?

He said 15-20k. I can find used examples for like 19k up here in my area, so I think he might be able to get one.

 

[eSZee]

I'm seeing a few for right above $19k within 500 miles. I guess you're right.
There's even a few GTs for under $21k.
I would also concur on the G8. Great cars I just didn't think they were that cheap.

 

[disinfected]

Though it's hard pressed to find a bank to get you good financing on a recent-gen Pontiac. Three banks didn't want to finance me on a Solstice when I bought my Altima since Pontiac is gone.

If you can though, the G8 is a great idea.

 

[Crash]

Let me try to give you the low down on the E39 M5.

Great car, very fast, extremely comfortable/practical/whatever superlative you want to throw at it, but like others have said, not cheap to fix. Are you mechanically inclined? Do you plan on doing repairs yourself, or are you going to take it to a shop? From what I've heard, if you start out with a decent example, you should budget an average of about $1500-$2000 per year in maintenance cost. That number goes down a little if you do everything yourself, but it still isn't cheap.

Mechanically, the S62 is more reliable than what a lot of people say. The VANOS system can be a bitch if it goes wrong, but from what I've heard, it's usually the solenoid rather than the entire system that's failed (much cheaper and easier fix). Back when these cars were still under warranty, a lot of dealers just replaced the whole system, less diagnostic headaches that way. Otherwise, some people have started recommending replacing engine rod bearings preventively at around 100k miles. Some cars are showing more wear than others for the bearings, but if they do fail (which has on some cars), it'll throw a rod and you are most likely going to be looking for a new engine, which, you can imagine, is a lot...

Some other things to consider: depending on where the car is from, look for rust damage. The rear door vapor barriers have a tendency to let moisture in after a few years (it's a quick and easy fix), the rear sway bar mounting brackets are weak and it's not uncommon for them to be broken (install an aftermarket reinforced bracket), secondary air pump breaks, and when it does, it throws a CEL and is very expensive to repair (it helps with cold start emissions, most people just turn off the CEL rather than fixing the secondary air pump). When purchasing, check that the O2 sensor, mass airflow sensor (MAF sensor) and spark plugs have been replaced. Check to see when the clutch was replaced last, if driven hard, M5s will eat clutches every 50-60k miles or so. Expect about a quart of oil consumption every 5-7k miles. Make sure that when oil changes are done, the previous owner has used either 5W30 or 10W60. Check for weeping diff seals, hoses, suspension bushings, etc.

If you do buy an M5, the US got them from 2000-2003 model years. 2001-2003 are the post-facelift models, and there were continuous updates throughout its lifetime. Post facelift models generally fetch more money. Pre-facelift models didn't have Angel Eye lights nor Jeweled tailights, had a older navigation system with 4:3 screen, slightly different interior combo options and trim, different steering wheel and black dash gauge faces. Mechanically, a post 3/2000 build vehicle should have an updated VANOS system (desirable). Between 2001-2003, most things stayed the same. Only differences is that the rear side airbags were disabled by default for 2002 model year, 2002-2003 model years have automatic headlights, 2003 have an updated DVD based navigation system (which also allows easy plug-and-play connectivity with BMW Aux input and Bluetooth), and 2003 also had a slightly updated VANOS system that helped decrease the start-up engine ticking noise. Otherwise, all cars came pretty fully loaded and only had a few options. (It's been a while, so I may have forgotten a couple of things).

For a higher mileage 2000, you can expect to pay about $13k-$15k. Higher mileage 01-03, $18k-$20k. Lower mileage 2000, around $18-$21k. Lower mileage 01-03, $23k-$27k. Low mileage 01-03, up to $30k or so. Almost brand new 01-03, up to $45k.



Now, with all that said, unless you really really want an M5, you can get 85% of the car for 60% the cost and headaches if you get a 540i. The 540i is still one fast car, and would still feel much faster and involving than your Accord.

Others have listed some good options. Danoff recently purchased a 330i, and M-Spec has tons of knowledge about all BMWs. You can ask them about their experiences and what to look for.

Also, what about a MSP3/6, the Mitsubishi Evo, Subaru WRX, E36 M3 (in before Azuremen) or Acura TL Type S?

 

[Murcie_LP640]

-1 for the TSX. Its just an Accord in drag.

It also happens to be much more critically acclaimed than your bog-standard Accord, and it has more fun driving dynamics while sacrificing NONE of the standard Honda reliability in the process.

Also with a WRX, better off looking for Teardrops rather than Bugeyes. Sharper, and better looking among other things.

 

[JCE]

Also with a WRX, better off looking for Teardrops rather than Bugeyes. Sharper,

Got stats?

and better looking among other things.

Subjective.

Though it's hard pressed to find a bank to get you good financing on a recent-gen Pontiac. Three banks didn't want to finance me on a Solstice when I bought my Altima since Pontiac is gone.

Actually it isn't just the Pontiac issue, banks in general are hard-pressed to give loans for autos now. Used to be if you had a 620-660 beacon you were in Tier III which banks would want your loan but at sub-prime %. If you had the 661-689 Tier II score you were money, and banks competed to get your loan. Now, banks won't even look at you unless you have a strong Tier I credit score. That means a solid established credit history, that being a 690-750 beacon with several long standing accounts in good order with no late payments. Only a few people get really special treatment when their beacons are 751-900 (Tier I+), these people get to pick and choose what they want in all reality.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

Got stats?

Several reviews, SIC EM and a test drive in a Bugeye.

Plus the Bugeye was famously softened up compared to the 90s 'Rexes which was complained about by purists and amended to in Teardrop.

Although the Bugeye may be more to the OP's tastes because of said softness. Don't expect a Rolls-Royce ride though lol. Now that I mention it though, did the US get the Legacy in B4 trim?

 

[CMvan46]

A mustang? Not a sedan but very fast, very fun and look good in my opinion.

http://auburn.craigslist.org/ctd/2584760725.html

Cadillac CTSV?

http://auburn.craigslist.org/cto/2573856333.html

G35?

http://montgomery.craigslist.org/cto/2588511206.html

I've personally driven quite a few G35s at work and can vouch for the G35. Amazing comfort inside, sedan body, and surprisingly quick.



I have no idea where abouts you live in Alabama so I just clicked whatever.

 

[Max Powers]

Let me try to give you the low down on the E39 M5.

Great car, very fast, extremely comfortable/practical/whatever superlative you want to throw at it, but like others have said, not cheap to fix. Are you mechanically inclined? Do you plan on doing repairs yourself, or are you going to take it to a shop? From what I've heard, if you start out with a decent example, you should budget an average of about $1500-$2000 per year in maintenance cost. That number goes down a little if you do everything yourself, but it still isn't cheap.

Mechanically, the S62 is more reliable than what a lot of people say. The VANOS system can be a bitch if it goes wrong, but from what I've heard, it's usually the solenoid rather than the entire system that's failed (much cheaper and easier fix). Back when these cars were still under warranty, a lot of dealers just replaced the whole system, less diagnostic headaches that way. Otherwise, some people have started recommending replacing engine rod bearings preventively at around 100k miles. Some cars are showing more wear than others for the bearings, but if they do fail (which has on some cars), it'll throw a rod and you are most likely going to be looking for a new engine, which, you can imagine, is a lot...

Some other things to consider: depending on where the car is from, look for rust damage. The rear door vapor barriers have a tendency to let moisture in after a few years (it's a quick and easy fix), the rear sway bar mounting brackets are weak and it's not uncommon for them to be broken (install an aftermarket reinforced bracket), secondary air pump breaks, and when it does, it throws a CEL and is very expensive to repair (it helps with cold start emissions, most people just turn off the CEL rather than fixing the secondary air pump). When purchasing, check that the O2 sensor, mass airflow sensor (MAF sensor) and spark plugs have been replaced. Check to see when the clutch was replaced last, if driven hard, M5s will eat clutches every 50-60k miles or so. Expect about a quart of oil consumption every 5-7k miles. Make sure that when oil changes are done, the previous owner has used either 5W30 or 10W60. Check for weeping diff seals, hoses, suspension bushings, etc.

If you do buy an M5, the US got them from 2000-2003 model years. 2001-2003 are the post-facelift models, and there were continuous updates throughout its lifetime. Post facelift models generally fetch more money. Pre-facelift models didn't have Angel Eye lights nor Jeweled tailights, had a older navigation system with 4:3 screen, slightly different interior combo options and trim, different steering wheel and black dash gauge faces. Mechanically, a post 3/2000 build vehicle should have an updated VANOS system (desirable). Between 2001-2003, most things stayed the same. Only differences is that the rear side airbags were disabled by default for 2002 model year, 2002-2003 model years have automatic headlights, 2003 have an updated DVD based navigation system (which also allows easy plug-and-play connectivity with BMW Aux input and Bluetooth), and 2003 also had a slightly updated VANOS system that helped decrease the start-up engine ticking noise. Otherwise, all cars came pretty fully loaded and only had a few options. (It's been a while, so I may have forgotten a couple of things).

For a higher mileage 2000, you can expect to pay about $13k-$15k. Higher mileage 01-03, $18k-$20k. Lower mileage 2000, around $18-$21k. Lower mileage 01-03, $23k-$27k. Low mileage 01-03, up to $30k or so. Almost brand new 01-03, up to $45k.



Now, with all that said, unless you really really want an M5, you can get 85% of the car for 60% the cost and headaches if you get a 540i. The 540i is still one fast car, and would still feel much faster and involving than your Accord.

Others have listed some good options. Danoff recently purchased a 330i, and M-Spec has tons of knowledge about all BMWs. You can ask them about their experiences and what to look for.

Also, what about a MSP3/6, the Mitsubishi Evo, Subaru WRX, E36 M3 (in before Azuremen) or Acura TL Type S?

I second the recommendation for the 540i, a used bmw is always gonna need some work, but they're just too much fun to drive.

I recently got a used E46 323i, and while it's under-powered compared to some of the newer models, I'm still in love with it.

One thing I would recommend if you plan on doing any work yourself would be investing in a code-reader. It at least helps you diagnose some problems and decide whether or not you have the know-how to do the job yourself.

 

[SpartanG]

A mustang? Not a sedan but very fast, very fun and look good in my opinion.

Define "very fast". The 09-and-older v6s had a mere 210hp. If you buy a mustang for the sake of owning a mustang, the v6 is good for that. Not much else.

 

[Gtr33]

Think about the rsx type S I've owned mine for a year and it's a great car, good on gas but pushes real nicely. 214 hp I believe not 100% sure. Looks nice and it's a newer car mines 2002. Just replaced the air intake and put in 2 12" subs and some 18" rims. Beautiful car and fast yet cheap to maintain. I haven't had a single problem with it