Starting the Pro League - car suggestions?

[Bulldozer]

I've been doing a lot of enduros lately, partly because I like running cars with lower hp (like 400 or less) and I've finished the Beginner and Amateur leagues.

But I can't play 2 hours every day, and I'd like to more forward. I finished the British GT Cup and the Pro FF. Then I tried the Pro FR. and got clobbered.

Please tell me these cars aren't stock. I forget what I entered the first time through, but I was swapping last place with a CLK55. I came back with the Denso Supra to win at Midfield II. Same thing at Apricot Hill, I entered a Viper with Stage I NA, and lost, though I did do better after I got used to the track). Came back with the Spoon LM for an easy win.

But those are cheap wins. Everybody knows that cars with stickers are faster. (Downforce and PWR might also have something to do with it.) I feel dirty.

Anyway, has anybody figured out what kind of horsepower or turbo/NA levels these cars have? And what would be a reasonable sticker-free car or horsepower level to enter in these races. Thanks.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Well your intuition is correct: those cars are anything but stock. In fact, the pro FR challenge (actually most ANY Pro race) I'd recommend giving your car as much advantage as possible. No downforce, but just about anything else is game: full-custom suspension, limited slip, full-custom brakes, etc. Here's some of my notes on the FR Challenge:

After the predictable FF Challenge, I needed some confirmation that I was still at the Pro level. And well, I got it (sort of).

In the FR Challenge, you'll most likely be dealing with the (TVR Tag Team--a Griffith 500 and Speed 6); a Corvette Z06 will keep up at times, but eventually falls behind. Some really good racing here for sure.

--At Apricot Hill, the typical GT3 rules are null & void! Here, the all the cars take a pit stop except the fastest one, our friend the TVR Speed 6! This is by far some of the toughest 10 laps GT3 has to offer....

--...But at Midfield Raceway II, the Speed 6 will need to take a pit on Lap 14 going into 15. This race still is very competitive, but if you're losing, a well-timed pitstop of your own can save the day. This means you can be on slightly softer tires than you used at the Hill. All the cars here slide around and generally drive like frickin' maniacs, occasionally using walls and guardrails as safety nets, but also losing it in the sand. Even the TVRs make some massive mistakes. Winning this race isn't just a matter of horsepower or handling, it's also a matter of of waiting for the right moment to attack!

--Deep Forest is the easiest of the 3 races despite the difficulty of the track itself. I don't know if it's possible to reset this race so the TVRs don't show up. If it is, the Corvette Z06, Mustang Cobra, Jaguar XJR, and Camaro SS really battle it out a lot more than the lonely TVRs, which get so far ahead. It might be worth it to see if we can have a Gran Turismo 2-style race here (more lead changes, less "spread" between the AI).

Heavier cars will need lots of power and the hardest tires should go where needed (typically up front), but lighter cars can usually go the distance on softer tires. This means you'll need to be on {T2} Super-Slicks or a combination of T2s and T3s in a car over 3,000 pounds. If you're on tires even one step softer in a heavy car, be prepared for a grand embarassment as your tires start to melt by lap 7 or 8. Full-custom suspension, limited-slip, brakes, and maybe a full-custom transmission are all recommended. Don't forget your countersteering knowledge and patience as well.




I've only done the Pro-level FR twice...in a Mustang Cobra R and a Camaro Z28...I may have done it a third time but I'm forgetting. In the Cobra, I was running damn near 650 horses at Apricot Hill and Midfield (less at the Forest) and the Stang weighed 3,200 pounds, which means I must have given at least a couple weight reductions. These races are some in which you can slab on the power without feeling guilty!


...and you know I'm gonna add: get lots of practice /qualifying at Apricot Hill! I remember doing at least 20 laps or practice before I tackled the actual race. It's an intense experience.

 

[Bulldozer]

Phew! It's a relief to hear that they're not stock. Not my favorite kind of driving, though. Too much power in a road car and I have problems, and not much time to correct if (when) I get into trouble. T2's don't help. Well, I guess I have some practicing ahead.

I wonder how much hp they're running. I guess I could take a Griffith, start adding hp bit by bit, and see where I just equal the AI's speed in a long straight. At least get a ballpark figure that way.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

TVRs are lightweight cars in general...they shouldn't need much power (then again, maybe they might so ignore what I just said)

At the speeds I was going here, the cars I used (Mustang and Camaro) start to get incredibly loose in those corners; yet even with 110% concentration on my driving and no spins or major slides, I still needed a goldmine of horses to keep up. I'm not sure if a TVR would handle much better, honestly...make sure to keep us posted!

 

[Duke]

I ran the Pro FR in a Corvette Z06 in pretty much full war mode:

LW1, LW2, LW3
T3 tires
Race suspension & brakes
clutch, flywheel, race trans, CF driveshaft, & LSD
chip and race I/E

My notes seem to have a typo (they say 48 hp) but I think it was 480 hp. This buildup was more than enough to beat the competition like a redheaded stepchild - I probably could have easily skipped the LW3 and some other goodies.

At Midfiled II I was turning 1':14.high" laps; at Apricot Hill it was 1':23.low". These were good for +13.low" and +6.low" MOVs, respectively, both over the Tuscan.

TVRs are quick, but the handling is evil. Even the best of the lot, the Tuscan, takes some dialling in to get right. You half-tame it, it half-trains you how to drive it.

 

[Bulldozer]

I just ran the last race - 10 laps at Deep Forest II. I used a Viper GTS with NA stage 2, LW stage 2, and other upgrades. 743 hp and a PWR of 1.8xx. (I thought it was lower - like 701 hp. It's a new car, maybe I never changed the oil until after the race. )

Took your advice and spent some extra time in qualifying to get used to the car and the track, and to see how the T2's would look at the end of 10 laps. I had to reset the race to get the Griffith. Not because I was trying to figure out his hp, just because I wanted the competition. His qualifying time was 1'20.mid and I ended up with a 1'19.mid.

I was still nervous because I didn't know if I could turn in consistent 1'20.xxx times. I was still turning into corners too early and accidentally getting into slides. Or not straightening out fast enough in the esses to take the next turn.

But to make a long story short, I did OK. Started in poleposition and gained about two seconds each lap, except for lap 6 where I lost about 3 seconds when I got off the road. Funny thing, I guess I was just starting to learn the track because lap 9 was my best lap at 1'18.low and lap 10 was almost as good, even though the tires were starting to get a bit orange. And it was the Vette that took second, not the Griffith.

Viper : 13'29.142
Corvette Z06 : 13'54.144 +25.002
Griffith 500 : 13'56.002
XKR Coupe : 14'13.421 (one pit stop)
Mustang SVR : 14'14.711 (one pit stop)
CLK 55 : 14'26.081 (one pit stop)

Since I used race cars in the first two races I'm gonna go back and do them again, otherwise I'll feel guilty. But not too guilty, since the prize car seems kind of bleh (Nismo GT-R LM road car).

Nice prize cars coming up in the next few races - ZZII, Evo VII Rally prototype, Cobra, RGT...

Edit to add: I didn't see Duke's post 'til after I posted. 480 hp? Your full war mode doesn't seem to include any NA upgrades. OK, now I feel guilty again.

 

[Orion]

You should win the Tommy Kaira ZZ-II, one of the LM Race/Touring Cars, or one of the 700HP monsters, the Toyota GT-One, and 787B comes to mind. May be over kill, but those are the "just in case" cars.

The Nismo Skyline Road Car is the bomb! Don't hate on it. That car got me so many golds...

Hmmm... a TVR Speed 6 can be good fully tuned, lightweight, quick, and smooth handling. IF you need settings, just tell me, and I'll see what I can do.

 

[Duke]

Viper : 13'29.142

Edit to add: I didn't see Duke's post 'til after I posted. 480 hp? Your full war mode doesn't seem to include any NA upgrades. OK, now I feel guilty again.

Not bad - I ran 13':23.462" for 10 laps at Deep Forest in my Z06. BUT, I was able to make T3s last for 10 laps. Each tire grade softer is good for about 0.5 seconds per axle per lap - so with T3s at both ends of the car, that's a whole second per lap quicker just from tires alone. On T2s I'd have run a total time of about 13':33.xxx" in that car.

I don't believe I added any NA tunings, but I did add port/polish and balance/blueprint for some unknown reason.

But not too guilty, since the prize car seems kind of bleh (Nismo GT-R LM road car).

Yeah, don't feel guilty - the Nismo GT-R LM road car is the most underachieving prize car in the game. With the stats it has on paper it should be a beast, but when I drove it, I found it to be a real barge that handled just as heavily as I expect any Skyline to, yet didn't manage to accelerate the way that normally saves Skylines from being totally useless.

The Tuscan is a very good car - it just takes a lot of driving. It's not for the faint of heart. I've got a good setup for it, but even so, it can bite you if your attention wanders. It's not a car you can order to do your bidding; it's a car you have to seduce a little.

 

[Bulldozer]

You should win the Tommy Kaira ZZ-II, one of the LM Race/Touring Cars, or one of the 700HP monsters, the Toyota GT-One, and 787B comes to mind. May be over kill, but those are the "just in case" cars.

Thanks for the suggestion, I have all those cars except the ZZ-II. In fact, after losing a few times I did go back and win the first race with the Denso Supra. And won the second race with an S2000 LM car. I just wanted a more competitive race, so I'm trying to win in a car without any downforce.

It's a pretty slippery ride without downforce at these speeds. But the AI don't have downforce, so I feel like I shouldn't use it either.

There are actually a lot of races I should go back and re-do, having "overkilled" them first time around. Unfortunately, I don't keep detailed notes on my races, so I'm just going to re-race the fun ones, or the championships where I can get a car I don't have yet.

Duke, I'm beginning to get the sense that you're not a big fan of Skylines. (I know you said the Calsonic was OK.) I'd be interested in your settings for the Tuscan, if you have a chance.

 

[Orion]

The Nissan Skyline JGTC isn't that great with it's powerband.

The turbo seems to fall off at higher RPM's, like a Rally car would. That is why when you burn out, sometimes you won't even get close to redline.

The Tommy Kaira ZZ-II has as much downforce as a Mazda 787B! So maybe you don't want to use that car...

For a well balanced car, I say use the Lotus Esprit, but not fully tuned, as you would have a 1089HP monster. Another car can be the Opel Astra DTM, since it gets pretty even tire wear, but fully modded, I think you might need settings. That car likes to drift way more than a XR8 fully modded, and blinds you with millions of sparks. It makes sparks on flat surfaces at high speeds too!

Final choice is the Toyota Altezza LM, since it can get tuned to over 1000HP, even tire wear even with 1000HP, and handles great, but serious overkill. I wonder if it can beat the Formula 1 Championship, seeing as how I won it with a 1350HP Toyota GT-One already.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Thanks for the suggestion, I have all those cars except the ZZ-II. In fact, after losing a few times I did go back and win the first race with the Denso Supra. And won the second race with an S2000 LM car. I just wanted a more competitive race, so I'm trying to win in a car without any downforce.

It's a pretty slippery ride without downforce at these speeds. But the AI don't have downforce, so I feel like I shouldn't use it either.

There are actually a lot of races I should go back and re-do, having "overkilled" them first time around. Unfortunately, I don't keep detailed notes on my races, so I'm just going to re-race the fun ones, or the championships where I can get a car I don't have yet.

Duke, I'm beginning to get the sense that you're not a big fan of Skylines. (I know you said the Calsonic was OK.) I'd be interested in your settings for the Tuscan, if you have a chance.

I dig Skylines (I used to not care for them at all) but I also don't think they're necessarily worth all the hype. But they are easier to drive (for a neophite) than FR cars--I know this bc my former racing buddy & I used to go at in GT2. He'd drive a 4WD Skyline whereas I'd be in a Viper GTS + race parts. He could drive a Skyline at high speed but could not master the Viper! So that tells you something I guess.

Anyways, congrats on your win! Just wait till you get to the All Japan Championship races (or whatever they're called)...those are fun! Don't attempt if you're on any sort of heart medication folks.

 

[Bulldozer]

Well, I bought a Tuscan Speed 6 because I'm going to need one anyway in the Tuscan Challenge. And I decided that I'd learn to drive this car by entering it in the Seattle Endurance Race. It's kind of overkill for Seattle, though. It's got just a little less power than the Corvette Z06, but it's almost 700 lbs lighter. If I'd been thinking, I would have saved the oil change until after the race. I just did it out of habit. Otherwise I ran stock power, but with suspension and drivetrain upgrades.

To give myself a little handicap I ran on Sport tires and pitted on the same 7 lap schedule as the Z06 and the Mustang. I also thought that stock power and sport tires might give me a hint of what the handling would be like with more power and racing slicks. But with a little more time to react.

I didn't spend a lot of time tweaking the setup. Just lowered it a little, stiffened the springs to compensate, and dropped the bound settings 1 click:

Springs     9.6  /  8.8
Ride Ht      77  /   77
Bound        6   /   6
Rebound      7   /   7
Camber      2.0 /  1.0
Toe         0   /   0
Anti-Sway   3   /   3

Brake bal   13  /   9
LSD        not installed
Aids           off

Comments? Suggestions? Point-and-laugh?

Here's the thing - I agree this car has a tendency to oversteer. Hell, that's an understatement. But I can kind of control that if I remember to be gentle with the accelerator. It might be faster overall if I didn't have to wait so long to gun it, but I'm afraid if I try to "tame" the loose rear end, then corner entry will be compromised.

So is there a way to reduce the Tuscan's oversteer without increasing understeer? Is that possible with any car?

Should I install the FC LSD? I can't remember what kinds of cars benefit from LSD. I just remember the MR cars rarely need them.

Oh yeah, the enduro. It was silly, my lap times were 2 to 4 seconds better than the Mustang and Z06. So it's overkill even on Sport tires.

 

[Orion]

(Rough Guide.) The bound settings should be set 2-4 times lower than the rebound settings. Setting them too high causes the car to bounce. And how did you get a TVR Tuscan Speed 6 to oversteer with stock HP? It doesn't understeer, or oversteer here. Maybe the stock suspension was good when the car was stock I guess. Set the Anti-Sway to 4 or 5, and I don't think you need camber angles, but I really don't know what camber does other than increase braking distances, reduce grip, and make the wheels at a angle. It may help corner more effectively according to PD, but I don't know.

 

[Bulldozer]

Well, the rear end seemed kind of loose to me. But, like I said, not too out-of-control. In fact, it might be useful for throttle steering if I get used to it.

I should have tried it with stock suspension before switching to FC. It's too bad that the default FC settings are so generic. Wouldn't it be cool if the default FC settings matched the stock suspension? That'd be a much better starting point for tweaking.

Those are just the defaut camber angles, I'll experiment with them. I have to hope that PD is right, though.

Thanks for the suggestions - I will try them out.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I personally always raise suspensions at Seattle to allow for more ground clearance and less bouncing...not just up the "Staircase" but also as I drive over red & white grids at some of those chicanes and corners. I also loosen the springs and dampers. That's just me, though...it might prove difficult for you to drive; I prefer my cars to have soft suspensions at certain tracks like Seattle.

And yes, if you add a FC limited-slip, that should cure a lot of the looseness you're experiencing, even if you have it softly set I think. Actually I'm not 100% sure...I have yet to try any TVRs in GT3. See how it works, ok?

 

[Orion]

Yeah, you will probably need a LSD with a raised suspension, because there is more availability for weight transfer on each side when turning. Also Parnelli Bone, you need to play GT3 more!

Bulldozer, I can make almost any car beat a JGTC, I made an Alto Works PWN all JGTC's at Cote d' Azur, even when I feel into deep turbo lag on tight turns.

Also anyone noticed that the Gold Alto Works you win has no turbo lag fully modded, but the one from the dealership has turbo lag fully modded? Also Prize Cars have more HP than the same cars you buy from the dealership.

Nissan Skyline with oil change and fully modded from dealership - Around 1040HP
Nissan Skyline with oil change and fully modded from dealership as a prize car - 1072HP

Escudo - 1824HP
Prize Escudo 1881HP

 

[Bulldozer]

Bulldozer, I can make almost any car beat a JGTC, I made an Alto Works PWN all JGTC's at Cote d' Azur, even when I feel into deep turbo lag on tight turns.

Phew! I guess an Alto Works could get close to a JGTC in terms of power-to-weight, but I would think the lack of downforce would be a serious handicap. I bet that little thing is a handful at those speeds.

I didn't notice the power difference. It seems like hp is always a little different, at the dealer, in my garage, before and after oil change, etc. Interesting.

 

[Duke]

I don't think you need camber angles, but I really don't know what camber does other than increase braking distances, reduce grip, and make the wheels at a angle. It may help corner more effectively according to PD, but I don't know.

Run, don't walk, and go read ///M-Spec's Guide to GT3 suspension tuning, or Scaff's even more in-depth PDF series on GT4 suspension tuning.

In a nutshell, camber (technically, negative camber, but PD either ignored the degree or alignment values are different in Japan) allows the tire to sit more squarely on the contact patch under cornering by biasing the tops of the tires in when the car is at rest. Then, when the chassis rolls and the outside suspension compresses, instead of the outside tires rolling over onto their sidewalls, they are standing more upright and maximizing the contact patch.

Only extreme camber values really do anything to straight-line braking or acceleration. Even when that's true, under most circumstances that is more than offset by increased cornering ability.

For the Tuscan, here are some settings you can start with:

Car:        TVR Tuscan 
     Horsepower:  662  
     Weight kg:   979
     Track:      Apricot Hill Reverse 
                                    
     SETTINGS                        
     Springs        15.2/13.0        Gearing   
     Ride Height      72/72        SetAt 3.782  
     Bound             6/7         AUTO     28 
     Rebound           9/8         Final 3.050  
     Camber          3.9/1.2                  
     Toe            -0.5/1.5      The   Gears 
     Stabilizer        4/6        1st   3.719  
     Brake Balance    14/12       2nd   2.552 
     LSD Front        15/26/12    3rd   1.884 
     LSD Rear         --/--/--    4th   1.457 
     Downforce      ----/----     5th   1.180 
     ASM                0         6th   1.000
     TCS                0         7th   Blank 
     VCD                --%  
     Tires         T2/T2

Oh, the prize/dealer power difference is because prize cars come fully broken in at zero miles, whereas purchased-new cars have a small break-in period before they reach maximum HP.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Yeah, you will probably need a LSD with a raised suspension, because there is more availability for weight transfer on each side when turning. Also Parnelli Bone, you need to play GT3 more!

Well I did drive some GT3 last nite...I have a mem card called "Ricer Roni". Roni is a Japanese racing princess and she's been doing some Beginner league races in a Nissan skyline GTS-t Type M. Did the FR, '80s, and Turbo races last nite

Run, don't walk, and go read ///M-Spec's Guide to GT3 suspension tuning, or Scaff's even more in-depth PDF series on GT4 suspension tuning.

In a nutshell, camber (technically, negative camber, but PD either ignored the degree or alignment values are different in Japan) allows the tire to sit more squarely on the contact patch under cornering by biasing the tops of the tires in when the car is at rest. Then, when the chassis rolls and the outside suspension compresses, instead of the outside tires rolling over onto their sidewalls, they are standing more upright and maximizing the contact patch.

I'm a huge fan of camber...you're right...if you don't exceed 3 or 4 degrees (sometimes a bit more) up front, it doesn't affect braking too much, and even allows you to brake into a turn a bit instead of just "flat-foot" braking in a straight line. For some 4Wd cars, I even put extra camber in the rear (between 2 and 3 degrees) in an attempt to get them to pivot more in tight corners and not understeer so much.

Finally, I remember in my GT2 days using extreme batches of camber for some cars when rallying. Case in point: the '71 Datsun 240Z with race-kit. For some reason I could NOT get this guy to break in corners...I remember going downhill at Pike's peak for instance; it is crucial here that you get cars to drift into all those hairpins--the Datsun didn't want to slide & drift at all....so I wound up using like 5 degrees on the rear tires! Actually, I also raised the rear, boosted the rear dampers & springs, and (finally) I believe I stiffened the anti roll-bars!

FINALLY I got the results I wanted: a rear-drive car with a deadly attack as I drove down the dirt hill.

 

[Bulldozer]

"Ricer Roni" How many of those "alter-ego" racers do you have, Parnelli? 5, 6, 7? I know you've mentioned them before, but have you done any write-ups of their careers?

Well, I played with setings for the Tuscan Speed Six, changing one thing at a time.

The first thing I did was add the FC limited-slip, and it made a HUGE difference. Even though I started with Duke's settings, which are weaker (more open) than stock. The back end just didn't kick out at all under acceleration.

I changed the camber next, first to 3.0/1.0, and then to 3.9/1.2. It seemed to corner a little faster, but it was a small difference. Maybe I was still getting used to the LSD. But it didn't seem to hurt anything either, so I left it. I should probably come back and experiment with this again when I'm more familiar with the car.

Springs were next. I usually adjust springs and ride height at the same time, but my springs were so soft that I'd just do springs alone. First time I went to 12.5/11. Wow! Another huge change. I was afraid this might cause more looseness, but all it did was make the Tuscan turn more easily. It enters corners quicker and rotates more quickly mid-corner. sweet.

Stiffening the springs more, to Duke's levels of 15.2/13.0, and setting anti-sway to 4/4, added just a little bit more turning speed. Maybe the technical term I'm looking for is "steering response."

I usually keep the ride height at least 10 clicks above minimum (which is 67/67 for this car), but I tried 72/72 here. I should mention I was testing at Deep Forest (reverse) and the track wasn't rough, but it is hilly. On some of the smaller hills I was getting air, so I think I'll go back to 77/77 for this track.

I went back to LSD for a minute. It had a such a huge effect that I was worried that it might have inhibited oversteer too much, even at lower-than-stock settings. I backed off a couple clicks on all settings and then I could get just a little bit of throttle steer when I wanted it.

About this time I realized that I was still running on sport tires. I wanted to stick with the same tires I was using before to be consistent, and also because I thought it might exaggerate any handling problems. But now that there weren't any serious problems I decided to switch to racing tires.

That's as far as I got. There's still more tweaking I could do. I set the dampers to bound 6/6 and rebound 8/8. And I'm still at neutral toe. Duke, you had a bit of rear toe. Is that because you were trying to increase oversteer?

Thanks for all the suggestions, everybody. They're really working out and I'm starting to like this car a lot.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Yeah, Ricer Roni is a character I invented in response to some of the Japanese girl-racers out there. there's also

Meth Hed: trailer-park dude who likes Skynard, Preist, and ass-kickin' muscle cars. Wears that mullet proud with his Red Man tobacco at his side always. He's my oldest character--been with me from my earliest GT1 days, when he brought a beat-up '88 Nissan 240SX to Autumn Ring Mini spot races. Prefers mostly American rides with lots of engine displacement, but doesn't forget his trailer-park roots. In GT4 he's been therefore getting some crappy meth pipe rides (most anything cheap from the Historic Lot basically is game) but lavishes his best attention on cars like the '70 Chevelle, '67 Mercury Cougar, Vipers of all kinds, etc.

Yuppy Scum was a lawyer before he got into racing. He got a lot of practice weaving in and out of traffic on the freeways as he went from case to case! Prefers corporate, yuppy cars made by Infiniti, Jaguar, Lexus, BMW, and others. He wants everyone to know he's rich. His wife is

Soccer Mom: She was a real-estate agent. Prefers to drive & race anything practical with which she can haul her kids to soccer games, piano lessons, and Costco --in GT3 there aren't many cars for her but in other games there were such vehicles as the Honda Accord Wagon, Subaru Forester, and VW Golf (not the GTi). She will be first to drive a Honda Odyssey once I get my GT4 game going.

Princess and Frat Boy: son and daughter of Y.Scum and S. Mom. They are both spoiled brats who get everything they ask for; including cars and more cars. She likes chick cars like the Mitsubishi Eclipse and Eagle Talon, he likes anything he can bum off his dad. Neither has seen much action since GT2, tho, so I plan on making them the b-spec drivers in GT4.

Vanilla Rice: Typical boy-racer. You've no doubt seen him in real-life. Baseball cap on backwards, baggy/saggy pants, and dopey language...you know. Prefers typical "rice" cars like the Acura Integra, Honda Civics, Evos, STis, etc.

Beerslut: Kind of a female version of Meth Hed; she still gets her nails done at JC Penny, even tho she's rich. The Camaro is a big one for her of course!

Holly Weerd: Beerslut's older, more sophisticated sister who moved out the trailer park and got a real job. She is in a way like Yuppy Scum; wants everyone to know she's loaded with GT credits! Prefers cars like the Mercedes Benz SL Kompressor, Jaguars, and other convertibles and "chick cars".

Pizza Boy: drives small, crappy cars he can beat up; got lots of practice obviously getting that pizza box to your door on time (or it's free!). He's my only character who started cold in GT4 so far since I just made him up a few months ago, therefore he's currently struggling with a cheapie Civic to earn early credits in the Beginner League.

Hippy Witch: This dreadlocked hippy got her racing start after repeated dashes from the law at various protests! She started her racing career in GT2 driving a Demio and was later fined at Laguna Seca after some of the multiple bumper stickers on the back of her Legacy started littering the track (...My other car is a Bicycle...All who wander are not Lost...Vote for Nader 2004!) Unfortunately, hippys only drive Volkswagons, Subarus and Volvos and she hasn't seen much action since GT2; but she'll be back in GT4!


European Consortium: this is a group of drivers all European who banded together in GT2 for a combined percentage total (Jacques Strapp, Herr E. Koch, Jorgen Agehtytt etc). Of course they drive all the Euro cars other drivers don't get to buy in America and Japan like Opels, Lotuses, TVRs and such. Like a true European union, they suffer from a lot of infighting and therefore don't get much done. They are just beginning GT3 so Iplan on using them for some GT3 races and reports here.

2 Short and My Baby Mama: A couple drivers from the ghetto. They drive anything affordable that runs at first (Celicas, 3000GT's etc), but aspire to race anything super-fly once they got some money therefore such cars as the Dodge Copperhead, Mercedes Benz, Lexus sedans, NSX, and other super sports cars and symbols of status. The gaudier the better. I don't have a PS2 memory card for this team yet.

You must think I lost my mind! Yeah I can't get into just racing any car at random, there has to be a "driver" associated with it. And no I don't plan on writing journals for them too often....it's too time-consuming. I will in GT4 eventually make a new character called "Baby Boomer" who will be sort of a liberal version of Yuppy Scum. Baby Boomers remember being at Woodstock (even if they weren't actually there) and tend to be concerned about the Planet, yet can't resist being a bit weird. The Honda Element, Toyota Prius, and anything that gets good mileage and doesn't hurt the environment is game for BB. I'm sick!!!!

 

[Orion]

Umm yeah, now back on topic.

Bulldozer, I must say, you are even teaching me new things, you experiment with setups and post it here in fine detail. +Rep.

 

[Duke]

And I'm still at neutral toe. Duke, you had a bit of rear toe. Is that because you were trying to increase oversteer?

I'm going to have to look at my notes. Looking at the values, it seems I was trying to actually reduce oversteer and give a little high-speed stability in back. But I haven't fired up GT3 in 2+ years, so I'll need to look at it again.

 

[Bulldozer]

Umm yeah, now back on topic.

Bulldozer, I must say, you are even teaching me new things, you experiment with setups and post it here in fine detail. +Rep.

Wow, thanks for the +Rep CNG. I was worried that post might be a little long, but I thought that people who made suggestions or dug up their old notes might want to hear how they were working for me.

Parnelli, I don't know what to say! Are you into photoshop by any chance? You could take pictures of your character's rides in photomode and use photoshop to paste them into different environments - like a soccer field or a trailer park. Maybe Pizza Boy (Pete Zaboy? ) will have some success in his racing career, and we'll see a Mugen Motul Civic Race Car with a Pizza Hut delivery sign on top! (As if you have days or weeks to waste on that.)


Duke, that's very generous. Please do it when and if it's convenient. You've already given me a lot of help, and I don't want to be a nuisance.

 

[Orion]

Yeah, Bulldozer, you can ask questions, because if you don't, some people will never know the answer to it, and other people can read this thread and learn alot.

I will now test toe angles since my TV is right by the computer, keep your eyes peeled.

 

[Orion]

BMW 328ci
Front - Setting the toe to a + number = Slightly more oversteer and seems to steer to full lock quicker
Setting the toe to a - number = Slightly more understeer

Rear - Setting the toe to a + number = Slightly more understeer
Setting the toe to a - number = Slightly more oversteer

Test #2 will be done in a 4WD car rather than a BMW 328ci.

Subaru 22B Impreza
Front - Setting the toe to a + number = Slightly more oversteer and seems to steer to full lock quicker
Setting the toe to a - number = Slightly more understeer

Rear - Setting the toe to a + number = Slightly more understeer
Setting the toe to a - number = Slightly more oversteer

Same exact results.
EDIT: Whoops DP

 

[Bulldozer]

Well, +Rep back atcha, CNG. Thanks for trying those out. I'll use it as a guide next time I play and continue to tweak the Tuscan.

I'm going to use the Tuscan when I re-run the first two Pro FR races. I expect I'll need to increase the hp to win, but I'll try to add the minimum I need.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Parnelli, I don't know what to say! Are you into photoshop by any chance? You could take pictures of your character's rides in photomode and use photoshop to paste them into different environments - like a soccer field or a trailer park. Maybe Pizza Boy (Pete Zaboy? ) will have some success in his racing career, and we'll see a Mugen Motul Civic Race Car with a Pizza Hut delivery sign on top! (As if you have days or weeks to waste on that.)

I wanna get Photomode pics up for sure. I got a camera-phone and I'm experimenting with it, but I keep getting static when I send it to my email...

It'll happen tho, I promise.

 

[Bulldozer]

Follow-up: Well, I finally won the first two FR races with the Tuscan Speed 6. I made sure the AI line-up always included a Tuscan also.

The 10 laps at Apricot Hill were tough. I made several attempts with NA stage 1 - 480 hp more or less - but I always lost by about 6 seconds. And if I pushed harder I'd lose it and get into the sand. So I gave up and went to NA stage 2 - 555 hp.

This time there was a Griffith 500 in the pole position with the Tuscan Speed Six starting from second. I got to the front of the pack during the first lap and stayed in the lead. But this is odd - the Griffith 500 stayed ahead of the Speed Six for 7 laps. And I won by a decent margin of 5 or 6 seonds.

Does the AI run the same car with different levels of hp in the same race? That doesn't seem likely. More likely the Tuscan just wasn't smart enough to alter his line and pass the Griffith. For 7 laps!

Mid-Field was a piece of cake after Apricot Hill. The AI was running off the track in three or four different spots. I beat the other Tuscan by more than 15 seconds, despite the fact that I pitted and he didn't.

Edit to add: I re-read Parnelli's first post and it looks like the other Tuscan pits on lap 14. I guess I didn't notice. It was still an easy race.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Wow, a Griffith beat a Tuscan? That's a first for me dude! Maybe the computer switches a few things around to keep you guessing.

Now to warn you Bulldozer: the next step is REALLY tough. In the Mid-engine races you'll be up against a real playa: the Ford GT40 road car! It has lightweight and a good bit of downforce. Winning against this guy in an "ordinary" passenger car (or even a sports car with no extra downforce) takes lots of maneuverability know-how.

I remember doing the races in a Ruf 3400S. I had to use as much power as I could (600 ish) + a weight reduction at Laguna Seca and I barely won. This guy is tough! By the end of each 10 lap race I was literally pooped; my wrists were raw and my nervous system needed serious decompression! Ironically, I tried these again in a Ford GT40 of my own and didn't need to add any power at all...If you drive a car with downforce & lower power, the races still feel competitive but the fun factor is higher. Good luck!