STR to Announce Bourdais Deal?

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Toro Rosso to announce Bourdais deal?

Scuderia Toro Rosso has been working to try to conclude a deal that will allow it to announce on Wednesday that multiple Champ Car champion Sebastien Bourdais has reached agreement to join the team in 2008 and will therefore team up with Sebastian Vettel. The news will not be a surprise as there was never much hope that Tonio Liuzzi was going to stay with the troubled Italian team.

It remains to be seen what happens to Liuzzi but there is no doubt that his relationship with Red Bull in F1 will be finished at the end of the season - if not before. For a team that is changing two drivers, it makes a lot of sense to get them into the cars as soon as possible. That has been done with Sebastian Vettel and it makes sense to do the same thing with Sebastien Bourdais, indeed it makes more sense in his case, as he needs more time in F1 cars than does the German. An early split also makes sense for Liuzzi as he could then be available to try out with other teams, some of which might even want to change drivers before the end of the year, for the same reasons as Toro Rosso.

Much depends on whether Bourdais is available. His Newman-Haas contract allows for F1 testing and he could do most of the remaining F1 races because the dates do not clash but, unless there are specific clauses in the contract to cover such things, Carl Haas is going to want to be paid and Scuderia Toro Rosso may not want to pay.

Despite all the adversity Liuzzi has managed to retain a decent reputation in some F1 circles. Every now and then, when it is possible, he has shown his pace but most of the time his talents have been hidden by the machinery. When he came into F1 back in 2004 he was in the running for the Sauber drive instead of Jacques Villeneuve, but since then Red Bull's handling of his career has not been very impressive. In 2005 he had to share a car with Austria's Christian Klien because the drinks company was worried about negative publicity in Austria if it dumped Klien. Liuzzi impressed, scoring his maiden point on his debut, but was then pushed into the role of test driver when it became clear that sharing the car was a daft idea. At the end of that year Red Bull acquired Minardi and changed its name to Scuderia Toro Rosso. Once again Red Bull was fixated on the Austrian media and Klien was retained (although he was ousted before the end of the year) and so Liuzzi was pushed back into Toro Rosso. He scored the team's first point in Indianapolis but the team management then began to blame the drivers for most of the failures and the current problems began.

Red Bull Racing's decision to hire Mark Webber at the end of last year meant that Liuzzi was forced to stay with Toro Rosso, despite the fact that there were clearly problems. The Italian has been careful not to say too much but his team-mate Scott Speed finally lost his cool after being attacked by team manager Franz Tost after the Grand Prix of Europe. Tost denied the attack but it was clear that something happened to make Speed happy to depart, even if he knew that he would probably not get a ride in F1 again.

Ironically, Liuzzi showed in Hungary that the highly-rated Vettel could not match him, but his Toro Rosso failed him in the race and so the performance was not really noticed.

Source: Grandprix.com
 
If Liuzzi stopped driving the damn thing like a go-kart, he'd have a chance to impress. If the Bourdais deal gets done (and STR can change their name to Sebastien Toro Rosso), then a test seat may beckon for Liuzzi.
 
Uh should this be in a new thread instead of this?Well anyways,sad to hear that Liuzzi is leaving but happy to hear he would be replaced by Bourdais.Now the team has 2 top rated drivers in their line up and if Ferrari deal is confirmed,it could be one of the teams to look out for next year.Its about time to turn STR around,if they had done earlier,who knows ho well they would perform by now.....
 
Split out from the Scott Speed thread...

I wrote an article on Liuzzi and the Red Bull driver selection programme at the back end of 2005. I really think that Red Bull are regretting getting involved with STR. Apart from having been able to manipulate the engine deals, it really hasn't helped them in a way that budgetary concentration on RBR would have. Then you could have Coulthard and Bourdais in the RBR. Bourdais would blow Coulthard away while DC was showing him the F1 ropes. Then RBR could move Coulthard into the "ambassador" role, and bring in a new talent (Hulkenberg seems to be the next big name).
 
Seems like they have to ditch Liuzzi since they ditched Speed. If Speed wasn't fast enough, then Liuzzi certainly isn't.
 
I think Liuzzi will leave on his own... he hasn't done much to start with, hasn't been given much chances either.
 
It's such a shame to see STR imploding like this, I always thought of them as more of a laid back, fun team in it for kicks more than sales..

As for Liuzzi, surely his days are numbered as an STR driver, Bourdais is probably the worst kept secret in F1 right now. To be honest though, I really cannot see where Liuzzi can go. With the regulations on Test Drivers being so tight, he is probably better off dropping down to GP2 for a season, just look at Timo Glock, it's done wonders for him.
 
Maybe Spyker will consider him? Or Perhaps higher. He isn't that bad a driver. Maybe he needs some maturing-time, like Sato did. Both have pace - but it took Sato a while to become reliable enough. In the Canada GP, Liuzzi was 5th, after his last stop, while two in front didn't stop yet. His visit to the wall of champions killed it, though.

But without Liuzzi and Speed, but the pair of Sebastians around, STR will be completely boring. They'll lose my vote.
 
Redbull (STR and RBR) have one of the most unreliable cars on the grid I think so many problems and glitches , doesn't give the drivers much chance does it , and STR being worse its worse for STR drivers no wonder Speed got angry the car is so unreliable
 
Redbull (STR and RBR) have one of the most unreliable cars on the grid I think so many problems and glitches , doesn't give the drivers much chance does it , and STR being worse its worse for STR drivers no wonder Speed got angry the car is so unreliable

Sadly your right! Both Red Bull teams do have a whole lot of mechanical failure this year compared to last year.Maybe it was Adrian Newey's car design that causes the cars flaw.Good yes but its like on a knife's edge you know (or however you say it) It could be good for one race and terribly bad on the next race.The design was too radical for RBR/STR and their gamble haven't paid off really (even worse for STR)

But i was wondering about this,was the car design had less cooling ports or what.I think the car had too much aerodynamics that they had to make less cooling ports for the engine.( i know McLaren had the same problem with their Adrian Newey design cars as well. Remember how Kimi's car bodywork got on fire at Monaco?) so does this contribute to the teams performance?
 
I don't think they are only having cooling problems , they are having various problems even little things like webber's fuel hatch stuck open in one of the races which made him loose loads of downforce in the straight line. Gearbox problems list goes on
 
They main problem is electronics and, to some extent, plain built-quality problems. The Ferrari and Renault packages proved very reliable - the gearbox, hydraulics and everything else didn't.
 
But i was wondering about this,was the car design had less cooling ports or what.I think the car had too much aerodynamics that they had to make less cooling ports for the engine.( i know McLaren had the same problem with their Adrian Newey design cars as well. Remember how Kimi's car bodywork got on fire at Monaco?) so does this contribute to the teams performance?

That Monaco incident took place in 2006, the last car Newey designed for McLaren was 2005.
 
Wonder what will happen to Champ Car, though. I mean, they still have Tracy, but Bordais was a pretty big player.

On the other hand, if people start looking at Champ Car as a bridge to F1, we might see some bright young drivers coming up the ranks.
 
You can keep Doornbos and Wilson for a start, but that Will Power bloke looks interesting..
 
Wonder what will happen to Champ Car, though. I mean, they still have Tracy, but Bordais was a pretty big player.

On the other hand, if people start looking at Champ Car as a bridge to F1, we might see some bright young drivers coming up the ranks.

Tracy is useless these days. Wilson v.s. Power is where it’s at.
 
Well,good to hear that Bourdais has finally get to live his dreams (or so it was....) and now he can finally prove how good is he on the track.But with a car which has more problems than a shopping cart,its a hard task for Bourdais to get a good finish what more to actually finish a race.Its exciting to see how he drives in F1 now,whether is the Montoya "kamikaze" style of racing from his Champ Car day or have a driving style more common with most rookies from the F3/GP2 series,it remains to be seen.....
 
Not to sound rude but, what's for Bourdais to do in F1? He's already 28, not the age you want to start in F1 with to build a long, succesfull career. Secondly, he's driving an STR, if STR doesn't come up with a serious update, Bourdais will only be able to play with a Spyker or Honda...Third, he better fixes his attitude. After his comments on Robert Doornbos' win at Mont-Tremblant, I lost nearly all my repect for him. If you don't like people legally blocking you, then don't start in F1 because people with a big mouth like Villeneuve never get far...Except for Villeneuve and Montoya then...
 
Not to sound rude but, what's for Bourdais to do in F1? He's already 28, not the age you want to start in F1 with to build a long, succesfull career. Secondly, he's driving an STR, if STR doesn't come up with a serious update, Bourdais will only be able to play with a Spyker or Honda.

Damon Hill started his career in a Brabham - a car that failed to pre-qualify more often then not - at the age of 32. Mind you, he was also a test driver for Williams at that stage. Nevertheless, it can be done. Although young, Alosno's first season was spent at Minardi, where he caught Flavio Briatorie's eye. If Bourdais has a relatively good season - has a few points-scoring finishes and regularly out-performs the more experienced Vettel - then it could lead to better things.
 
I agree with Roo, Damon Hill was older than Bourdais and in a hopeless car. Yeah he was Williams test driver but Bourdais is 3 times champ car world series champion.
 
If you don't like people legally blocking you

Blocking is totally illegal in the CCWS, and Doornbos has blocked (and been punished for it) several times in his Champ Car career, and he was blocking at one point at Mont-Tremblant. However, he ended up winning by such a margin that I agree that Bourdais had no real right to argue—no matter what had happened when Doornbos blocked him he probably wouldn’t have won anyway.
 
I agree with Roo, Damon Hill was older than Bourdais and in a hopeless car. Yeah he was Williams test driver but Bourdais is 3 times champ car world series champion.


This is 2007, teams are looking for young drivers like Rosberg and Hamilton, when was the last time you saw a 32 year old enter the F1 world and made a succesfull career? Hill would probably be the last one...
 
That’s because talented drivers tend to be noticed and signed early.

Bourdais was noticed early. In 2002 he won the F3000 title and tested for Arrows. I believe he had signed a race contract for 2003, however the team went bankrupt towards the end of the 2002 season.

In December of 2002 he tested for Renault, but he did not sign the contract as test-driver as he did not want to sign a management deal with Flavio Briatore. That essentially destroyed his chances of getting into F1, so he went to the US to race Champ Cars, where he has dominated so completely.

In the last 8 years he has won 5 championships, from Formula 3, to F3000, to three consecutive CCWS titles. There is no denying his talent, and I completely believe he has what it takes to win in Formula 1 with the right car. IMO his late start in F1 is not a negative statement about his talent, just a statement that he was unlucky and probably made a mistake by not signing with Renault.
 
IMO his late start in F1 is not a negative statement about his talent, just a statement that he was unlucky and probably made a mistake by not signing with Renault.

Wasn't he up against Frank "Who??" Montagny for the Renault test seat?

Seb is undoubtedly very talented. How he's going to make that apparent in the political mire that is STR, I don't know. Something tells me he's only 30% done in terms of expressing his talent in F1.
 
Wasn't he up against Frank "Who??" Montagny for the Renault test seat?
Yeah, he was. However I’m pretty sure Flavio laid the contract on the table for Bourdais first, but it had the typical management strings attached.

Seb is undoubtedly very talented. How he's going to make that apparent in the political mire that is STR, I don't know.
I agree—the team is incredibly unstable at the moment, the Red Bull Young Driver Programme is proving quite worthless, the entire environment just seems to be wrong for a driver who really has a make-or-break season ahead of him.

Hopefully if he stays out of trouble and beats Vettel someone higher up the food-chain will take a risk on him. I’m not sure who, though. Ferrari and McLaren aren’t really options for 2009 assuming Alonso keeps his head and doesn’t break his contract. Renault may be possible if he can sort out his differences with Flavio—however I don’t really see it happening. BMW? Maybe. They should have a solid car sorted out by that time, and they’re already getting a lot of attention from some fairly high-profile drivers so he’ll have a lot of competition for that seat.
 
Four of the Red Bull drives have now been assigned elsewhere in 2008, only one of them going to a member of the Red Bull Young Driver scheme.

Of the current options there is Toyota, although this will probably re-sign Ralf Schumacher, for reasons known only to them.
 
Yeah, he was. However I’m pretty sure Flavio laid the contract on the table for Bourdais first, but it had the typical management strings attached.

Yes, I've read same in interviews with both Bourdais and Montagny.

I agree—the team is incredibly unstable at the moment, the Red Bull Young Driver Programme is proving quite worthless, the entire environment just seems to be wrong for a driver who really has a make-or-break season ahead of him.

Well I don't see who they've nurtured through the programme who really has the massive talent level needed. I thought Liuzzi to be the real deal after his dominance in F3000, but he's been screwed in F1. I also thought that Michel Ammermuller would go all the way but after his GP2 shunt he's started going backwards, and I think that his balance-of-the-season WSR deal is a slippery slope to tin-tops. Neel Jani got everyone talking for reasons I couldn't determine, and is now failing to cover himself in glory. Perhaps the grassroots scouting is off-beam.

Hopefully if he stays out of trouble and beats Vettel someone higher up the food-chain will take a risk on him. I’m not sure who, though. Ferrari and McLaren aren’t really options for 2009 assuming Alonso keeps his head and doesn’t break his contract. Renault may be possible if he can sort out his differences with Flavio—however I don’t really see it happening. BMW? Maybe. They should have a solid car sorted out by that time, and they’re already getting a lot of attention from some fairly high-profile drivers so he’ll have a lot of competition for that seat.

Something tells me that Massa's seat could be up for grabs for '09. Also, if Alonso doesn't win a title and dominate Hamilton in '07 and '08, I think that his drive might be available. Big Flav is a realist, and will hire Seb if he's the best option, history or not. Plus, Renault too is lacking a superstar. I think Kovalainen could be a slow-burner, but Fisichella's got to be out the door soon, and there's no-one on Flav's books or in the RDD Programme who can do an Alonso, save Alonso himself. I don't think that BMW will change their line-up for at least two years, and if they do, I think that they'll recall Vettel. Although of course there is precedent for a team placing a driver, and then taking the team's other driver...
 
Something tells me that Massa's seat could be up for grabs for '09.

That’s an interesting thought, a Nicolas Todt driver being replaced by another Nicolas Todt driver. What makes you think that, anyway? Not convinced Massa has a long-term future in F1, or…?
 

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