Strange forces...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Kano Manel
  • 23 comments
  • 8,471 views
Kano Manel

Kano Manel

Messages
483
United Kingdom
London
Hi, yesterday I needed to play with maximum torque and sensitivity of FFB (10/10) and I practiced with the Gr2 au Lexus. Whenever I hit the straights at suzuka the steering started to swing from one side to the other as if a strange force were moving my wheel (G29)... in the straights... with cero inclination. What is that swinging? There is any way of fixing it? Thanks
 
Shottah072
Why did you need to play 10/10 ?

More force isnt necessarily better you know, in fact to much force makes the FFB considererly worse.
Click to expand...
I have to play with gloves due to personal circumstances, and I feel much less, so I changed the settings higher. Also, it make me faster with the new tyre model.

Now, the thing here is, why is the wheel dancing when at 0 degrees? It is because the torque? It is because the sensitivity?
 
Kano Manel
Will I lose sensation of kerbs, grip, etc? (I'm not in front of the wheel)(sounds like I'm asking about condoms...)
Click to expand...
You lose lots of sensation by having your torque at 10. Your wheel is probably clipping all over the place because it doesnt have that much torque.

I dont want to tell you how you should play, its your choice in the end, but i suggest you look into what FFB clipping is and why it is bad. This is a good video to start with.



Most fast or experienced players will run low torque and high Sensitivity as it gives you all detail across the entire torque range of your wheel. How much toque one should use depends on the wheel and how much torque it delivers. I dont have a g29 but for t300 i use 3-4, any higher and the wheel starts clipping and you lose allot of information.
 
Last edited:
Kano Manel
Will I lose sensation of kerbs, grip, etc? (I'm not in front of the wheel)(sounds like I'm asking about condoms...)
Click to expand...
I guess the answer technically would be yes, if you just go by the description in the manual.
But as @Shottah072 mentioned, more is not necessarily better.

I have to run my wheel through a Drivehub (emulating a G29), so it's difficult for me to make definitive comments about wheel implementation in the game.

But that said, I have the same issue, and I run a very low sensitivity to avoid getting annoyed at the oscillations.
Mixing high sensitivity with high torque would be a nightmare for me.
 
Ok, I'll do some tests this bank holiday and I will post results here, maybe it helps others.

Is it Nordschleife the most bumpy-crazy-realistic track to test FFB feeling?
 
Kano Manel
Ok, I'll do some tests this bank holiday and I will post results here, maybe it helps others.

Is it Nordschleife the most bumpy-crazy-realistic track to test FFB feeling?
Click to expand...
Big Willow's even bumpier :)

I also have 10/10 but sort of just lived with the oscillations, since my arms got dialled in to the strength. I definitely recommend any new wheel user to not immediately step it up to 10/10- old habits die hard :scared:
 
Kano Manel
Ok, I'll do some tests this bank holiday and I will post results here, maybe it helps others.

Is it Nordschleife the most bumpy-crazy-realistic track to test FFB feeling?
Click to expand...

I run my FFB sensitivity at 10 for detail, but torque I run at 3. This is just the force in the wheel and not detail.

I'd say the high torques is what is causing the oscillation imo.
 
Kano Manel
Now, the thing here is, why is the wheel dancing when at 0 degrees? It is because the torque? It is because the sensitivity?
Click to expand...
It's because it's Gran Turismo. GT has always done this. I've never noticed it in GTS though as I don't have the sensitivity and torque very high.

In previous GT's the wheel would want to oscillate wildly when you were driving any car with downforce in a straight line. It was particularly noticeable when using a DFGT on the PS2 with GT3/4.
 
Mr616
I run my FFB sensitivity at 10 for detail, but torque I run at 3. This is just the force in the wheel and not detail.

I'd say the high torques is what is causing the oscillation imo.
Click to expand...
Interesting.

I'm lazy and really should utilise more of the my wheels settings. :p
But turning down the sensitivity ingame was a quick and easy fix for me.

From memory I think I set Torque at 4 or 5 in-game.
I might have a play with it tonight and see if I can find a way to turn up the ingame sensitivity more without the wheel shaking my arms off. :lol:
 
Mr616
I run my FFB sensitivity at 10 for detail, but torque I run at 3. This is just the force in the wheel and not detail.

I'd say the high torques is what is causing the oscillation imo.
Click to expand...
I run the same on T300. 3 Torque, 10 Sensitivity.
 
Alpha Cipher
Big Willow's even bumpier :)

I also have 10/10 but sort of just lived with the oscillations, since my arms got dialled in to the strength. I definitely recommend any new wheel user to not immediately step it up to 10/10- old habits die hard :scared:
Click to expand...
Big Willow then.
Should I test with gr1 gr2 gr3 and gr4 to make it more complete? (Tidgney and Windfire kind of rise the bar for any test ;-) )



Tassie_tiger
I might have a play with it tonight and see if I can get more sensitivity out of it without the wheel shaking my arms off.
Click to expand...

One of my clients races an Evo 4 heavily modified in real life, and he explained me this morning that the more grip the stronger feedback from the steering. Basically that thing can rip your arms off, according to what he said. I need a chiropractic after racing in PC1 with 96% FFB, I can't imagine in real life.
Funny thing, he also complained about people saying that racing is not a real sport. He's super fit
 
Tassie_tiger
Interesting.

I'm lazy and really should utilise more of the my wheels settings. :p
But turning down the sensitivity ingame was a quick and easy fix for me.

From memory I think I set Torque at 4 or 5 in-game.
I might have a play with it tonight and see if I can find a way to turn up the ingame sensitivity more without the wheel shaking my arms off. :lol:
Click to expand...

I found less FFB sensitivity lost me a lot of detail. I could only feel curbs really.

It took some playing around with, but high torque and low sensitivity made it feel strong but "gooey, sludgey" like steering in glue. Once I cranked to FFBS and lowered torque to where it just about takes up the slack, or deadzone in the wheel (3) gave me the best feel.

I'd say set FFBS to 9 or 10 then play with FFBT settings to your liking.

I'm running a T150.
 
Kano Manel
One of my clients races an Evo 4 heavily modified in real life, and he explained me this morning that the more grip the stronger feedback from the steering. Basically that thing can rip your arms off, according to what he said. I need a chiropractic after racing in PC1 with 96% FFB, I can't imagine in real life.
Funny thing, he also complained about people saying that racing is not a real sport. He's super fit
Click to expand...
Indeed, the more load you put on the outside tires the heavier the FFB will get. Untill you put to much load on them and push them over the edge, at this point you lose grip and the FFB turns light. As soon as you feel the FFB go light under heavy load you need to correct or you are about to spin.

In gaming we have less cues to tell us we are on the limit then in real life. We have to do with subtle visual and audio cues and what the FFB tells us. Thats why a good FFB setup is so important. With torque put to high in your ingame settings your wheel is using its max torque (G29 only has around 2.1-2.3 Nm of torque available) before reaching the maximum load on the tires, thus not letting you feel the difference between i.e. 70% and 100% load on tires because the wheel is already at 100% torque with a tire load of 70%. This is what clipping is and loads of wheel users dont know of this but its a pretty big deal as you can imagine judging the limit gets harder if you cant feel the differences in force as you aproach that limit.

If you want the work out a real car would give you then you need to buy a wheel that can deliver such forces. Here's a list of how much force the most used wheels deliver. Note that for that real workout experience without loosing detail in FFB you are gonna need a direct drive wheel, but they are very costly and i am not sure they are supported in GTS.

  • Logitech DFGT: less than 2.5 Nm
  • Logitech G25: 2.5 Nm
  • Logitech G27: 2.3 Nm
  • Logitech G29: 2.1 Nm - not a retail release version of wheel
  • Logitech G920 2.2 Nm
  • Fanatech GT3 v2: 2.6 Nm
  • Thrustmaster Tx: 3.9 Nm
  • Thrustmaster T500: 4.4 Nm
  • Fanatec CSW v1: 4.8 Nm
  • Fanatec CSW v2: 7.1 Nm

  • David noted his OSW and AF test don't seem to be that accurate...
  • Accuforce: 8 Nm to 13 Nm depending on mode settings in the driver
  • OSW: 10 Nm to 20 Nm depending on the motor (i.e how much $$$)
  • Bodnar: rumored to be 16 Nm, they also have multiple motor options
 
Last edited:
Kano Manel
Funny thing, he also complained about people saying that racing is not a real sport. He's super fit
Click to expand...

It always struck me in the annual F1 drivers football matches that people like Schumacher could play a full 90 minutes and not break a sweat while running and hoofing the ball. But of course every race they spend at least that long in a flame retardant suit cramped infront of a hot engine with a helmet on while dealing with high G forces. Racing drivers are some of the fittest athletes at top levels.
 
G29 user here, too. Used the wheel at higher FF in the beginning, but except fitness gains ... I mean, now I'm at 2/10 and feel the road well, too, but I'm hapier with faster changes of directions now, so...
No need to wear and tear ... My 2 cents
 
This effect might be caused because there is not a 'dead zone' when the wheel is centered in the FFB settings of GT SPort?
I did tests with different group cars and didn't make any difference.
I tested with different tyres and it changed everything.
The more grip the more likely to happen this effect.
With racing hard, and settings torque 7/sensitivity 10 the problem disappears as long as you have your hands on the wheels (anything with tyres less than racing hard will feel no problem at all).
the best settings are then torque 7/10

But as ramurel said
ramurel
No need to wear and tear
Click to expand...
So I reckon the sweet spot must be with torque 6 to save wear and tear.

Now, I noticed that is possible to lose this effect by doing the opposite, torque 10/ sensitivity 6-4. But is a bit unpractical. It gives you a strong FFB but you feel nothing.

So, for all G29 players, sweet spot is torque 6 (or less), but sensitivity 10, so you can feel the road and the tyres.
Thanks for your comments
 

Latest Posts

Back