Strange PP ratings against true power/weight.

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XPOWER180

XPOWER180

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XPOWER180
Been doing a few tests of supercars, all in stock trim with racing softs and straight from 0/0 with an oil change - just in the practice room for something to do more than anything else! From the Veyron down to the Lamborghini Murcialago SV, all the results seem very consistant as the PP level gradually goes down. But then upon testing 2 cars - the Mercedes SLS AMG and the Ferrari 599 things get strange. Out of the dealership the Mercedes is rated at559PP. After oil change and 16 miles it's at 563PP. The Ferrari is rated at 545PP and after oil and 16 miles it's at 548PP so only a 75% gain of the Mercedes 4 extra PP.
After oil and 16 miles the SLS is at 581BHP and it's stock wight is 1620KG. The 599 is at 626BHP and it's stock weight is 1580KG !!! So, the Ferrari is 40KG lighter, 45BHP more powerful yet is 15PP less!! And around Monza it came in at 0.9 of a second faster than the Mercedes! This is just plain messed up. I know it's widely documented how inconsistant the PP system is but this, to me, has to be the best example yet of how wide the tollerance is. PD - sort it out for GT6 please! :ouch:
 
XPOWER180
Been doing a few tests of supercars, all in stock trim with racing softs and straight from 0/0 with an oil change - just in the practice room for something to do more than anything else! From the Veyron down to the Lamborghini Murcialago SV, all the results seem very consistant as the PP level gradually goes down. But then upon testing 2 cars - the Mercedes SLS AMG and the Ferrari 599 things get strange. Out of the dealership the Mercedes is rated at559PP. After oil change and 16 miles it's at 563PP. The Ferrari is rated at 545PP and after oil and 16 miles it's at 548PP so only a 75% gain of the Mercedes 4 extra PP.
After oil and 16 miles the SLS is at 581BHP and it's stock wight is 1620KG. The 599 is at 626BHP and it's stock weight is 1580KG !!! So, the Ferrari is 40KG lighter, 45BHP more powerful yet is 15PP less!! And around Monza it came in at 0.9 of a second faster than the Mercedes! This is just plain messed up. I know it's widely documented how inconsistant the PP system is but this, to me, has to be the best example yet of how wide the tollerance is. PD - sort it out for GT6 please! :ouch:
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Is it me or is your post hard to understand?
 
What?? It's in absolute plain English. No txt speak, no slang (unlike some posters on here) just good old English using all the correct units of measurement and so forth. If you can't read it then I don't know what else I'm surposed to do!! I've described everything thoroughly, paragraphed and sentenced correctly and made sure all units are correct!

For the ones who find it difficult to read, here's a condensed (that means shortened) version. Why does the Ferrari 599 have a lower PP rating than the Mercedes SLS when the Ferrari has more power and less weight?

There, was that easier?!
 
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I think the PP number also takes into account the handling aspects of the car, at least in the initial calculation (or decision), the SLS is easier to drive than a 599 on most tracks.
Maybe it isn't just a case of cold numbers alone but also the delivery of its performance compared with similar cars.
 
analog
I think the PP number also takes into account the handling aspects of the car, at least in the initial calculation (or decision), the SLS is easier to drive than a 599 on most tracks.
Maybe it isn't just a case of cold numbers alone but also the delivery of its performance compared with similar cars.
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Thankyou for a sensible response! 👍 I did wonder about that but then I thought what's easy for one person to handle might be tricky for another. I do agree with you that the SLS is easier than the 599 plus it brakes better but the 599 was nearly a second quicker around Monza. Very strange!!
 
The torque numbers might be involved and the SLS do have some nice active rear spoiler that help giving active downforce in high speed. Ferrari 599 seems to be more wild than SLS to drive, especially on corner exits.

Higher PP does not guarantee better lap times on all track, some track will favor different cars.
 
Hmm, yes I must admit I didn't take into account the torque figures and active aero' of the SLS. Still seems a wide margin though. I'm going to test them both at the 'Ring later and my suspicion is that the SLS will hammer the 599!
 
Hi

Might be to do with downforce, as mentioned.

Have PD ever made public how PP is calculated?
This would answer your question and everyone else's!

Regards
 
I did a search here but found nothing on exactly how PD make their calculation - I would love to know! Plucked out of a hat at a guess, haha!!
 
The premium SLR also has abnormally high PP...

Whatever the PP formula is, it's pretty close to whatever is being used in the GT4 racing series. Putting the exact specs of some of the GT4 racing cars into the regular cars, you'll see they'll come out anywhere from 498-499 PP with the exception of the Corvette, which cannot be done as the GT4 is based on the base C6.
 
I've been on this topic lately. Online is even more ridiculous, especially in the well renowed 550 pp room, where only a bunch of car can be really competitive against other quick drivers...

If you want a proper test then go online and try to beat the "550 monsters" by using a different vehicle than the usual ones.
 
I think the real lesson to be learned here is that, regardless of how it's calculated, PP is not a good way to determine how fast two cars are compared to each other, unless the gap in performance is very large. I mean obviously a 600pp car will be MUCH faster than a 400pp car, but once you get into the tens of pp instead of hundreds, things get very inconsistent.

This is likely because there is no objective standard for what "good" handling is. Speed and acceleration can be measuered with objective numbers, but handling characteristics are often based largerly on drivers preference.
 
J91patriz
I've been on this topic lately. Online is even more ridiculous, especially in the well renowed 550 pp room, where only a bunch of car can be really competitive against other quick drivers...

If you want a proper test then go online and try to beat the "550 monsters" by using a different vehicle than the usual ones.
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So true. Unless you are using the infernal LFA, the oh-so-original choices of M3 CSL/GTR or a VW Nardo concept, hardly anything else has a chance. I enjoy using stock cars or something a bit more quirky but you will never stand a chance of winning with them. Try running a room now at 550PP+ with no tuning allowed and everyone who enters leaves within a minute - they're too strung up on tuned vehicles to try a stock car and oddly enough they are sometimes faster than a tuned version!
 
I've driven both the SLS and the 599, and tried tuning both, and it works like this, at least for me:

SLS is great, handles nicely for such a huge car and is immensely fast in the right hands.

599 is more understeery, needs a touch of subtlety to drive it well, as well as more dangerous when it bites back against you if it doesn't like one of your inputs.
 
Have you tested the stock R35 GTR Black edition?
You'll be amazed with the result related to its pp.
 
The Evo VI TM edition from the premium dealership is crazy fast at a 550pp tune around Monza.

With the last patch changing a lot about how areo is done , the PP formula may be more out than every before?
 
XPOWER180
And around Monza it came in at 0.9 of a second faster than the Mercedes!
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try this with different tires - 599 might be fast with RS tires, but SLS might beat it when using say sport hard tires. RS / racing tires make the characteristics of street cars to be alot closer to each other.

And yes - bhp is only one thing. torgue is also a BIG factor.
 
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PP is out of place sometimes...best example:

The actuall 600PP seasonal Timetrail with "race cars"....just look what car is used for the best times (the box on 4 wheels), then try to get these times with another car...you have no chance achivieng them.
 
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XPOWER180
Hmm, yes I must admit I didn't take into account the torque figures and active aero' of the SLS. Still seems a wide margin though. I'm going to test them both at the 'Ring later and my suspicion is that the SLS will hammer the 599!
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I'd suggest a slower track than Nurburgring. Tsukuba, Deep Forest, Cote D'Azur, Autumn Ring [Mini].
 
I can guess with out checking - the notorious "J" is back. that car should be banned from TT or removed from the game..:crazy:
 
Another thing to look at is weight distribution. I believe they have calculated that into the mix somehow as well. Cars with more front weight seem to have lower PP than cars with more even distribution or more to the rear. Maybe it's just me, but arrange your garage according to PP in ascending order and you will see strange things. Lower weight, higher HP with less PP several times thru the list. I believe weight has a bigger influence WHERE it is!
 
Bowtie-muscle
Another thing to look at is weight distribution. I believe they have calculated that into the mix somehow as well. Cars with more front weight seem to have lower PP than cars with more even distribution or more to the rear. Maybe it's just me, but arrange your garage according to PP in ascending order and you will see strange things. Lower weight, higher HP with less PP several times thru the list. I believe weight has a bigger influence WHERE it is!
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This can be easily tested - just put full ballas in a light weight car and move it from front to rear. One will notice 50/50 weight distribution gives you extra pp, but only marginal amount. (maybe difference of 1pp if I remember correctly)
 
Cheers guys, some really good points have been made here. Just when I think the game has run out of steam (for me anyway) I now find all this which ok, isn't exactly racing, but by experimenting with all these cars especialy as a stock machine can radicaly alter the main game play. I ran a room at 570pp and I used a Stock Murcialago SV and it made a monkey out of everything else, it was brilliant! Tuned up M3's, NSX Type R's, Elise 111R's were all being left for dead by this 100% standard car. I then ran my so-called tuned version and it was slower!!
 

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