Studded tyres in US

[Leonidae@MFT]

As some of you know, I'm planning to move into US within some months, to mountains of Cali. I've heard from my friend there that the winters can be nasty up there, even with AWD's and chains, not to mention with those dreadful M+S rated tyres. Hence why I'm more interested of using studded tyres during winter. Having driven one winter with M+S tyres I'm not too eager to repeat the experience. thus, the questions regarding studded tyres in US..

1.) Are they legal?
2.) If not, why?
3.) Is there a way around it?

 

[Bottoz]

Each state has different studded tire laws. In Colorado studs are legal from October 15th to April 15th.

In California:
"The California Vehicle Code [Section 27454 (e)], permits studded tires to be used on vehicles between November 1 and April 30 of each year. The number of studs or the percentage of metal in contact with the roadway cannot exceed three percent of the total tire area in contact with the roadway.

Since there could be some confusion on this issue, you may wish to write to the CHP. That way you will receive an official response that you can carry in your vehicle. The mailing address is:

California Highway Patrol
Office of Public Affairs
P. O. Box 942898
Sacramento, CA 94298-0001"

I do frequent winter/snow/mountain pass driving in Colorado in my MINI with non-studded winter tires. The MINI as a factory mechanical LSD... so that helps. Good Luck in your move. Welcome to The Colonies!

PS - I forgive you for calling me a troll.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

As long as it's possible to get studded tires, I'll be happy. I prefer them due the fact that they provide more mechanical traction than the M+S without the noise of chains.

 

[tfed]

I know in NY they are legal with a certain amount of feet of snow on the ground

 

[YSSMAN]

We're not allowed to use studded tires down here in the Lower Peninsula of Michigan, nor are chains allowed, as I recall. Head north to the Upper Peninsula, and I believe those laws change a bit. Generally speaking, it depends on where you are in the state that determines what kind of snowfall you'll see.

Here in Grand Rapids, it isn't unreasonable to have a month with as much as 50cm of snow thanks to the lake effect weather. Generally, dedicated snow tires will get you through the mess provided that it doesn't all come down at once. A nice set of Blizzaks seem to walk a reasonable middle ground between traction and reasonable comfort. I've considered getting a set for my Celica on multiple occasions, but most of the time, a well designed all-season tire will have most people covered.

 

[Keef]

Chains and studs are typically only allowed in states along the northern border, or only in certain regions like mountains or Michigan's UP.

Any studless winter tire, regardless of where it ranks among competitors, will provide a monumental snow and ice improvement over any all-season tire in existence. I've been stranded by all-seasons before - I have tried to get stranded with both my sets of snow tires and I never could get stuck.

The main reason studs are illegal is because they're prone to flying out of the tire at high speed - despite deep snow on side roads the highway may be clear - and breaking glass and injuring people. You'd be surprised what that little chunk of metal can do. Besides that, studs and chains are loud and annoying being audible for quite a distance, and can damage road surfaces pretty badly. They're not for use on dry asphalt so in regions where they're allowed, the snow on the road is typically just packed down instead of plowed off.

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

Well, aren't you from Finland? Then you have nothing to worry about!

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Chains and studs are typically only allowed in states along the northern border, or only in certain regions like mountains or Michigan's UP.

Any studless winter tire, regardless of where it ranks among competitors, will provide a monumental snow and ice improvement over any all-season tire in existence. I've been stranded by all-seasons before - I have tried to get stranded with both my sets of snow tires and I never could get stuck.

The main reason studs are illegal is because they're prone to flying out of the tire at high speed - despite deep snow on side roads the highway may be clear - and breaking glass and injuring people. You'd be surprised what that little chunk of metal can do. Besides that, studs and chains are loud and annoying being audible for quite a distance, and can damage road surfaces pretty badly. They're not for use on dry asphalt so in regions where they're allowed, the snow on the road is typically just packed down instead of plowed off.

Uh, they're not so prone to lose their studs nowadays. That is also related to driving style. And studs are helluva lot quieter than chains, and they also damage the road less.

Well, aren't you from Finland? Then you have nothing to worry about!

True, our drivers ed covers winter driving pretty thoroughly, but that doesn't mean that we're invincible.

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

My dad HAS gotten stuck with snow tires, with a Mustang that is... on our driveway.

 

[Azuremen]

As long as it's possible to get studded tires, I'll be happy. I prefer them due the fact that they provide more mechanical traction than the M+S without the noise of chains.

They are really only relevant in ice pack, which will be rare in those areas. This is coming from someone that experiences far more severe winters each year and who hasn't owned studded tires for 8 years. I think they should be illegal across the country as a proper set of snow tires will work just as well in 99% of situations, regardless of drivetrain. If I can get an MR-S around with an open diff and studless snow tires, anyone get a car around with some thought.

Studs are responsible for about 70% of road damage and wear in these areas, and if you think you should just put chains on and leave them on outside of extreme situations, I honestly must question your driving skill.

And I can hear studs always. The sound they make is quite loud and distinct.

Honestly, if you feel you need studs to drive in the snow, you need to learn how to drive better.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

^I'd agree with that.

I've lived through our winters on all-seasons. Have had to shovel my way out all of once on rather worn all-seasons.

 

[Prosthetic]

Mountains in Cali? Like Tahoe? If now where you headed? Tahoe averages 125 inches of snow a year at the lake and 300 inches up in the peaks. So yes nasty snow is covered

 

[Philly]

I also question whether snow tires provide anything other than psychological security. I had snow tires on my GTI for a Michigan winter and they took the weather like a champ. I had enough grip for 'normal' driving performance.

But yeah, snow tires will be just as good for pretty much anything you're going to encounter and you won't destroy the roads for everyone else. Also, snow tires give you better grip when there isn't snow on the ground versus studs.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Studs are responsible for about 70% of road damage and wear in these areas, and if you think you should just put chains on and leave them on outside of extreme situations, I honestly must question your driving skill.

And I can hear studs always. The sound they make is quite loud and distinct.

Honestly, if you feel you need studs to drive in the snow, you need to learn how to drive better.

You drive a sports car, the tire roar is bound to be easier to hear in the cabin in one of those. And I would prefer studs, because I've driven with studded tires all the time and know how they behave.

Mountains in Cali? Like Tahoe? If now where you headed? Tahoe averages 125 inches of snow a year at the lake and 300 inches up in the peaks. So yes nasty snow is covered

Try Crestline, with quite regular visits to Big Bear ( not sure if that is the name of the mountain)

I also question whether snow tires provide anything other than psychological security. I had snow tires on my GTI for a Michigan winter and they took the weather like a champ. I had enough grip for 'normal' driving performance.

But yeah, snow tires will be just as good for pretty much anything you're going to encounter and you won't destroy the roads for everyone else. Also, snow tires give you better grip when there isn't snow on the ground versus studs.

As if SoCal roads have much left to destroy.

 

[marluxiaXI11]

As if SoCal roads have much left to destroy.

There is a road by my house that after you drive on it you wonder how nothing fell off your car

And it doesn't snow enough in those mountains to warrant studded tires.

 

[Azuremen]

You drive a sports car, the tire roar is bound to be easier to hear in the cabin in one of those. And I would prefer studs, because I've driven with studded tires all the time and know how they behave.

Try Crestline, with quite regular visits to Big Bear ( not sure if that is the name of the mountain)

I have driven on studded snow tires in various cars, and heard them in various cars. Please don't assume I only drive an MR-S around (which doesn't exist anymore) and that it is my only experience.

The first two years of my driving experience where in a Tercel with studded snow tires. I drove the same car on various other tires in snow as well. The difference isn't that big.

Studs make very little difference over good, non-studded snow tires. And I've used them on FF, FR, MR, and AWD cars. Along with Azenis and everything in between for the tires.

Also, the weather around Big Bear isn't that bad and roads are often cleared regularly, so while people may cite inches, etc, they don't have that much bearing. Plus, no one in California honestly knows how to drive in snow.

And SoCal roads are generally in dramatically better shape than roads up here in Washington. And that is mostly because of the use of studded tires up here.

 

[Sniffs]

Az: you were also driving a butt-heavy vehicle, so that helped

I had bad luck with the only batch of snows I ran. they were no grippier than anything else, AND they chipped out the second it got above freezing.

we have the "usable for so many months" with studs. however, it appears, unlike a lot of you, I'm actually rural. that means you have to deal with roads drifted shut right after they're plowed, Ice packed side roads that would give ice road truckers deja vu, completely unplowed driveways (because everybody runs a 4wd pickup with mud tires about 4 feet off the ground), and, if schools close no plowing whatsoever.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

I have driven on studded snow tires in various cars, and heard them in various cars. Please don't assume I only drive an MR-S around (which doesn't exist anymore) and that it is my only experience.

The first two years of my driving experience where in a Tercel with studded snow tires. I drove the same car on various other tires in snow as well. The difference isn't that big.

Studs make very little difference over good, non-studded snow tires. And I've used them on FF, FR, MR, and AWD cars. Along with Azenis and everything in between for the tires.

Also, the weather around Big Bear isn't that bad and roads are often cleared regularly, so while people may cite inches, etc, they don't have that much bearing. Plus, no one in California honestly knows how to drive in snow.

And SoCal roads are generally in dramatically better shape than roads up here in Washington. And that is mostly because of the use of studded tires up here.

And you should not assume that I can't drive in snow. We have snow for most of the year so I do know how to and how not to drive on snow and ice. It's just a matter of preference. Studless winter tires just aren't my cup of tea.

And clearing the road regularly can occasionally make things worse. Instead of coat of snow and ice, there will be just ice, and that's where the studded tires shine. And where do the ice usually appear? Hills. And SoCal mountains have plenty of those.

 

[Kylehnat]

I've gotten stuck in my Mazda with Blizzaks on. Yes it was uphill, and on a sheet of snow-covered ice (and I only got stuck because the guy in front of me did and I had to stop), but studs probably would have done the trick there. My experience has been that studless snow-tires are excellent in snow, but on ice, they aren't much better than all-seasons. I don't know what kind of snow that part of Cali gets, but if it's dry snow, it should be no problem. Wet snow tends to beget ice, which is a different kettle of fish.

 

[Azuremen]

And you should not assume that I can't drive in snow. We have snow for most of the year so I do know how to and how not to drive on snow and ice. It's just a matter of preference. Studless winter tires just aren't my cup of tea.

And clearing the road regularly can occasionally make things worse. Instead of coat of snow and ice, there will be just ice, and that's where the studded tires shine. And where do the ice usually appear? Hills. And SoCal mountains have plenty of those.

It is called de-icer and it is magical. If my friends that never drive in ice or snow because they live in the LA area can get around up there on all seasons going up to Big Bear, you can get around with snow tires.

Kyle, I highly doubt they would have made enough of a difference - getting bite after being stopped on a hill is just a hassle, period. And you are on the West side... and that is just, well, that.

Sniffs, like I said, I've driven a lot of cars in the snow, on various tires. Not just the MR-S. I also grew up in a rural area and commuted 60+ miles a day for high school, which never had a snow day because it was private. The last time I couldn't get up a hill with a car was because it had Kumho XS on it in 3 inches of wet snow.

I'm mostly just against them because they cause such extensive damage to road surfaces. And on the day or two a year you could use them, and can't manage with studless snow tires, chains can be put on for the drive. The people I know who live here as well, which gets worse winters than the SoCal mountains (oh my) agree that studs are very rarely useful.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Salt etc doesn't help much when you're under 0F.

 

[Azuremen]

Salt etc doesn't help much when you're under 0F.

de-icing agents still work. The main thing is they work during the day, and it will get above 0F down there in the day, where then the water can evaporate off.

But what do I know, I only drive 15,000 to 20,000 miles a year in a place that gets snow for 5 months of the year.

 

[Sniffs]

*watches the sarcasam ball get lobbed back and forth*

ANY of us that get significant amounts of snow know something about it. i don't know how marylanders get around, though, when it ices up (studs are illegal, there)

being one of the states with the most notoriously horrendous road systems, we get a waiver. they're so busy arguing around here as to how to spend what money where, lately. All the super heavy truck traffic on roads never meant to hold more than 10 tons is making it a lot worse (it seems that Pennsylvania is sitting on the bulk of the Marcellus Shale gas reserves).

of course, our roads still follow animal and native american paths, edges of farmer's feilds (complete with 90 degree rights and lefts), and overgrown cuts made by coal-miners and Loggers. they also tend to go straight UP hills, rather than switchbacking. and Europeans think the states are filled with bone-straight 8 lane superhighways that are on perfectly flat ground (at least, the guys that haven't been here)? uh-uh. some of us actually need the studs just so we don't loose a grip

 

[Joel]

Canadian here, I live just off Lake Erie so we get a lot of snow from the lake effects. I haven't driven in much snow, but from being a passenger a good set of snow tires works wonders. I'm fairly sure studs are illegal here, but i've never seen someone stuck with snow tires on.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

And whole another matter is, that I have no intention of buying a new car in the nearby future, thus, I won't have the benefit of three letter acronyms unlike some. Why? Because even the most basic cars with any of those are still rather unaffordable.

 

[YSSMAN]

Salt etc doesn't help much when you're under 0F.

It does a little, but not a lot. It depends on what mix your local road commission is using on the roads at any given time. The budget constrains around here have made our guys use more sand than salt these days, and it creates one big mess on the roads... Especially during the coldest months of the year, January and February.

Honestly, it all depends on where you are. I've lived in Michigan and dealt with lake effect all of my life, and I've never had a serious moment where I've thought, "Oh man, I wish I had studded tires." A good set of all-seasons will get you buy with relative ease, particularly if you're a good driver.

Otherwise, I just suggest staying off the road.