Suggested Tuning Steps?

Discussion in 'GT6 Tuning' started by azidahaka, Feb 3, 2015.

  1. azidahaka

    azidahaka

    Messages:
    5,536
    What is your favorite tuning steps when taking a car? I think it's pretty important to start touching the car in steps so to avoid over tuning some parts to fix preceding errors...

    I imagine tuning would go like this:

    1. choosing parts
    2. transmission
    3. lsd
    4. springs
    5. dampers
    6. rollbars
    7. toe
    8. camber
    9. brake balance
    10. downforce
    what is the best way to proceed? What suggestions/tricks you want to share?

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. Highlandor

    Highlandor

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    Car / power to grip level / track / type of race or event / driver:

    A car that is 400-450pp with sports soft tyres would need different setup to same car with 550pp and sports hard.

    If a car has low(er) grip tyres for a high(er) PP then type of track becomes more important to consider, so is whether driving aids/ballast/tyre wear on off would all have some kind of impact.

    Likewise, someone's driving style would need to be considered, a skilled driver with good to excellent throttle brake control would need different setup to someone who is 100% throttle brake.


    General rule of thumb, the more grip / balance you get from tyres, ballast, race / event settings etc the more general a setup can be (until you get to the needs of the driver), the more you take away grip/balance the more specific a setup is likely to become :tup:
     
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  3. azidahaka

    azidahaka

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    5,536
    Thanks for the reply but i'm pretty sure you misunderstood my question :D
     
  4. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    There is no fixed approach to tuning, generally you start with the biggest problem and go from there. If the car wobbles about like jelly then you start with the suspension, if the car has problems putting its power down then you might start with the LSD.
    None of the adjustable parts are separate entities, they are all working together and therefore need to be adjusted simultaneously to be effective. Any alterations made to the weight and/or distribution will need to be considered when adjusting the suspension, any alterations made to the engine need to be considered when adjusting the LSD and transmission.

    First make the car drivable, then make it fast :tup:
     
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  5. rams1de

    rams1de

    Messages:
    451
    1. choosing parts
    2. transmission
    3. lsd
    4. downforce
    5. ride height
    6. springs
    7. rollbars
    8. dampers
    9. toe
    10. camber
    11. brake balance
    I'd suggest the above. 1-5 have most dramatic effect imo. 6-7 will be affected by ride height/downforce settings while 8-11 are very much fine tuning.
     
  6. Highlandor

    Highlandor

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    2,385
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    No worries... :tup:

    If what I said in first post is already covered (sounds like it is), then set brakes, camber, toe, LSD to a general setting for the car/track, tyre, driver, then base the setup around springs, dampers and roll bars.

    It's like baking a cake, the springs, dampers and roll bars are the cake, everything else are the decorations/finishing touches..

    Unless you want an 'alien' setup, then ride height will probably be a big factor i.e. high front, low rear.. :tup:
     
  7. demonchilde

    demonchilde

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    872
    Location:
    United States
    you know what, I am going to add a general 1st step that I do, but keep in mind, this is ONLY when I just randomly buy a car to check it out, this is not my approach for events, seasonals, and such.
    I take the car down to route X.
    I buy first, just the full transmission.
    I bump it up 3, maybe 4 notchs above its auto-set.
    I run it, to find its 'speed it wants to hit'.
    If you don't get what I mean, I will explain quick.
    Just flooring it i a straight line, you will go through your gears watching the speedometer moving up fast. When it stops moving fast, and first starts to go up slow, THAT is your target speed.
    Now, if that speed is like, 80mph, I now know I'm tuning a 400PP maybe 450pp car. then I will buy parts and tune it to around that pp level.
    Now if its like 140mph then i know the car is going to be comfortable around 500, maybe 550pp.
    If it hits like 170 or above before even starting to slow down is increase, then I know I pretty much have free reign over parts and pp pevel.

    Is it correct every time?
    actually, more often then not.
    using this method, and say finding a 450pp target, MOST of the time if you went nuts and bought every part and tried to make it like 550pp or more, the car will be unbelievably hard to control.
    It's a pretty good way to search out a cars sweet spot without doing hours of tuning first.

    Good luck ^^
     
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  8. Stotty

    Stotty Premium

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    This is the process I use...
    1. Before driving the car: Install any parts (including ballast @ pos 0 if needed to reach PPT limit)
    2. Before driving the car: Set suspension to 'base' starting set up (remove toe/camber, flip bound/rebound, set springs to c.10% max value, set ride to c.80% max value, max ARB's)
    3. Before driving car: Set LSD to 5, 15, 5
    4. Before driving car: max downforce (if present)
    5. Drive car
    6. Gears
    7. Springs, dampers, ARB's (if car feels excessively stiff/soft)
    8. Ride height, brake balance, LSD (LSD adjustments normally only to accel)
    9. Ballast (only adjust if can't get right balance with ride/brakes/LSD)
    10. Toe (only add if can't get right balance with ride/brakes/LSD)
    For the majority of cars, it only takes a short time to sort springs/dampers, then the rest of the time can be spent at step 8, fine tuning ride/brakes/LSD to get the right rotation entry/mid corner and traction on exits.

    However, once the balance is 'perfect', I would go back and try incrementally adjusting springs/dampers away from the base.
     
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  9. F1Racer68

    F1Racer68

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    1,175
    Location:
    Canada
    Here is my approach:

    1. Change Oil
      1. This isn't always necessary, but I usually tune cars for the long haul, not just one and done racing
      2. I like the extra HP and Torque up front. Also, I will need to change oil at some point in the car's life and I don't want the increases to mess up the power numbers
    2. Add all appropriate tuning options
      1. For power parts, I like to get the car as close as possible to the desired power level so that I can minimize the use of the power limiter. This is also why I do the oil change up front.
      2. I prefer to use the Chassis Reinforcement on virtually every car, as I find that it makes the suspension behave more crisply, especially with turn in. Many will argue that it "tightens" the car up, but I find you can tune around that. Without the reinforcement I find steering response feels "sloppy"
    3. Tune the transmission.
      1. Believe it or not, the transmission tuning can have a huge effect on the handling of the car, Especially corner exits.
      2. Focus on getting the individual gears set properly for the power band of the car, then use the final drive to adjust the shift points for each track
    4. With all other settings still being stock, take the car for a minimum 5 laps around the track.
      1. This allows me to feel out the car to determine what it is inclined to do. Ask yourself the following questions:
        1. How does the car feel under braking?
        2. How does the car turn into the corner?
        3. How does the car feel at mid corner?
        4. How close to the apex can I get back on the throttle?
        5. How does the car feel on corner exit?
      2. Once I have an idea of what the car's characteristics are with the default setup, I now know what to address
    5. Set up the LSD
      1. The LSD is still what I would consider the "Super Tune" part of GT Tuning. Getting this right is more critical than the suspension in my opinion
    6. Set Ride Height
      1. Ride height will be determined based on the track, as well as the basic characteristics of the car
      2. Smoother tracks with few elevations changes allow for a much lower ride height than a bumpy track with a lot of ups and downs
      3. Remember that the Ride Height settings (RAKE) ARE BACKWARDS. What you should use is Higher Front/Lower Rear to loosen the car and Lower Front/Higher Rear to tighten it up. This is (still) backwards to both in game description as well as real world.
      4. Avoid extreme rake angles as they tend to cause a whole other world of issues
      5. Avoid "slamming" the car to it's minimum ride height.
    7. Set Aero levels
      1. While most people will tell you that Aero is a "fine tuning" adjustment, it is critical to know roughly what levels you will run in order to properly set the spring rates.
      2. You can make fine adjustments at the end without having a major affect on springs.
    8. Set Spring Rates
      1. Spring Rate values will be determined by several main factors:
        1. Ride Height - Lower ride height means stiffer springs
        2. Aero amount - More aero needs stiffer springs
        3. Weight - heavier car needs stiffer springs
        4. Weight Distribution - heavier end needs stiffer springs
        5. Tire type - grip levels will dictate spring rates. Tires with less grip will need softer springs.
        6. Track Surface/conditions - bumpier surface or wet/slippery surface will need a softer setup.
    9. Fine tune
      1. Use the Dampers, ARB, Toe, Brake balance and Camber (in that order) to fine tune the setup
      2. Once the spring rate is set, the rest of the tuning is all about managing and controlling the weight transfer. That's where the Dampers, ARB and even Brake balance come in.
      3. Toe angles will help adjust for the 3 phases of the corner (Entry, Apex and Exit). I tend to end up with some negative toe on both ends on most of my cars. One thing is for sure, don't be afraid of Toe. It can make a significant impact for just a small amount.
      4. Camber is a bit of a mystery still. It works (in that it produces an effect), but not quite as you would expect, and definitely not as it did in GT5, or as it does in real life.

    As others have mentioned, Tuning is very much a personal preference task. There is no right or wrong way, it's whatever works best for you. Having said that, it's always cool to see how others do it and perhaps incorporate some new ideas into your own approach.

    The one thing that is absolutely cut and dried or right/wrong is that it must be a methodical approach. Never change more than one thing at a time. Also, make sure that you have a defined approach/process so that you can easily undo any changes that made things worse instead of better.

    Anyway, it's a bit long winded and detailed, but I wanted to not only provide my approach, but also some insight into why I use the approach I use. Hope it helps.
     
  10. wedjim

    wedjim

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    638
    Location:
    United States
    F1racer68 covered it in excellent fashion.
    I do it about the same, preliminary test of 3-5 laps before tuning any suspension or the transmission, LSD, etc. Once I feel what the car wants, I start adjusting based on what worked in previous tunes. I have found almost every car likes stiffer springs, less rear toe in and more front toe out.
    Also cars that steer well respond to even camber settings, cars that either push or are loose respond to uneven camber as well as more aggressive spring, sway bar, ballast position and LSD settings.
    Transmission gearing is a big factor based on the engines power band and rev capabilities. I high revving engine will like a close ratio gear box(taller first with less gearing spread thru out), while a high torque low revver will prefer a wide ratio setting and higher final drive ratio.

    A lot of this is trial and error and there is no perfect way. Same in the real tuning world, ie: even weather has en effect.

    Lastly, Keep in mind that everything is a series of compromises. A few examples: A tighter differential adds steering out, hurts entry steering. Front Toe out does the same. Softer sway bars may add traction, but at the expense of consistency. Stiffer sway bar is more consistent but can cause a net loss in traction(Unless you're preventing the tires from being overloaded). Sometimes changing one thing may cause something else to need retesting. Moving ballast will effect sway bars and springs, etc.

    This is why so many think its black magic. Trial and error, time and effort always pay off. Save settings and try using the B and C options for testing without worrying about making the car worse. You can always go back.

    Good luck.
     
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  11. demonchilde

    demonchilde

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    872
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    I will add to this point.
    Most of the population does not like to use this, but the main reason is that initial testing on it was done early in gt6's life. So many things have changed since then/major patches/updates.
    I agree with this being useful now.
    Here is what I will add though;
    1st of all, never ever ever do a reinforce in the middle of tuning.
    2nd, and this is only possible if the car is cheap enough, I find the best thing to do is tune the car fully without reinforcement. If you are completely happy at this point, then no point looking farther. But if not, and its not expensive, buy another car. do the reinforcement, then tune it like a brand new car. don't even look at your other settings, just tune it like new.
    Then compare, lap times, feeling of drive, tire wear speed, ect.
    Many times I have found I liked the reinforcement version a ton better.
    But because of the cost issue, I shy away from reinforcement of high priced cars.
     
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  12. Voodoovaj

    Voodoovaj

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    2,931
    Location:
    Canada
    I start with an oil change, then I (usually) remove the weight to get a car near the PP limit I am shooting for. I start tuning the suspension first, then I move to the power. I can't say that there is a perfect process on the power because some cars do better with max horsepower an some by maxing out the torque. Then I do the transmission last.
     
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  13. wedjim

    wedjim

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    638
    Location:
    United States
    Wanted to also add that using a rear wing for downforce when a front wing(downforce) is not available, might not be a good idea in some cases. Since a rear wing will add rear traction thru aerodynamics, that means less rear traction at slow speeds and more rear traction as speeds increases. Causing a high speed push and low speed loose car.
     
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  14. OdeFinn

    OdeFinn

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    Test car on stock, get feel how it behaves.
    Reduce weight & get power parts, test on default values. Try to stay away from power limiter.
    Start tuning.
     
  15. bcrispin

    bcrispin

    Messages:
    27
    I tune the LSD according to the suspension, the. It comes after I set that.
     
  16. xande1959

    xande1959

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    1,399
    Location:
    Brazil
    buy the cars that I will use. put the necessary parts from engine until reduction of weight that allows working with the points of preformance.

    1 LSD
    2 Height
    3 springs
    4 bumpers (ext :)
    5 dampers (comp :)
    6 Bars
    7 Camber Angle (-)
    8 Toe angle
    9 Transmission
    10 Brakes
    11 Ballast Position
    12 Downforce (if any)