suggestions for low-ranked racers?

[dLo GSR]

can any of you GT academy gurus that i consistently see on the top leaderboards in the game lend some simple advice to those of us who are having a tough time even getting close?

for example, i read that people were using trailbraking a lot in the top replays and so I started working on trailbraking properly, and it definitely helped cut my times by a decent margin. i'm still being blown away at how fast the top ghosts are when I load them onto the track with me.

 

[Choate51]

Sure I'm willing to help. Just ask me some ?'s or find me online and invite me to a room. I want to get as many into the top 128 on the board as possible.

 

[dothackRAVE]

I wanna know the same thing.

I just started trail braking yesterday, and today I broke into the 1:06 range in Tsukuba. Previously 1:07 was that barrier I couldn't cross.

Maybe we should all get into a room and have one advisor watch us?

 

[Randum311]

Could someone direct, or explain the concept of Tailbraking? From what I can read, its simply braking into the turn instead of the usual, "Brake, off brake and turn, accelerate out of the apex" approach?

 

[The Cheef]

The way I like to think about trail braking, but more generally, driving as a whole, is to give the grip of the tires a unit value from 1-100. You only have a certain amount of grip to work with. If you want to use 100% of the tires grip for turning, then you can't use any of the tires grip for either acceleration or braking. The concept is best visualized with a diagram called the traction circle.

Trail braking then, Is your initial braking should be close to using 100% of the tires grip for purely braking, then as you start to turn the car down to the apex, you start decreasing your brake pressure. You do this as smoothly and balanced with the amount of steering input your are adding. So as you drive down to the apex, you want to have decreasing amounts of braking and increasing steering angle. The magnitude/pacing of your inputs all depends on corner and vehicle type and it's something that just takes some practice and time to really understand. hell, I'm still figuring it out!

Hope this helps,

The Cheef

 

[blindsidefive0]

Cheef, getting technical - I love it. Classic HPDE classroom material.

 

[Randum311]

Thanks for the explanation! That graph was the first thing I realized when I was playing Forza and just couldn't understand how to corner! Then it clicked like a light bulb going off in my head.

In a nutshell, that makes sense, just need to work on turning while decreasing brake, which usually results in me spinning out if I brake hard and turn... I think the wheel makes this easier!

 

[LeftyWright69]

I know that this doesn’t have anything to do w/ trail braking but a trick that I use is taking a car and it doesn’t really matter what car it is as long as it is faster then the car you are competing in, and go in the practice area and find the track that your are competing on. Start running laps that are slower then what you are doing w/ your qualy car. Using the ghost that you just created and bring up your speed until the times are faster then what your are doing in the qualy. I like to make a ghost that is faster by at least 1 or 2 seconds.

Then I go back in the Academy qualy and use the ghost that I just created in the practice session to be the rabbit. I have found that even the 10th place ghost is even to fast to chase so I create a ghost that I can stay in touch with so my fangs have something to sink into. I hope that I have explained it good enough to make sense.

 

[HeroPride]

Sure I'm willing to help. Just ask me some ?'s or find me online and invite me to a room. I want to get as many into the top 128 on the board as possible.

Well for instance, I downloaded Chaote's ghost for cape ring. I keep chasing him and follow his exact moves.

I been practicing for a while now by using Chaote's ghost and I knocked my 3:10 time to 2:57.186 so far. If i keep practicing I can get closer and closer.

You should look at the 3 threads that have been posted up, that talk about tips in each map.

I am low ranked too, im getting closer and closer every hour. Currently i am ranked 422 in north east.

Hope ill see you in top 128 XD

 

[wordhomiegdog]

Go into corners hotter than you would think.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I think a good example of trail breaking is in IA2 game license test.

Lexus IS F at De La Sarthe.

To get gold you have to brake all the way up into the corner.
You cannot roll the center of the corner, as you would probably be able to do with most cars.
In this case, if you do that the car will push out when you hit the throttle, and you cannot make the time.
Of course the breaking point is critical too.

 

[Timppaq]

Always remember to pay attention to the weight transfer and think about it carefully. Keep it in your mind during every corner and try to benefit from it rather than let it work against you. This is also related to the trailbraking, which in some turns can make a lot time for you. 👍

 

[Piket]

Use the throttle not as a switch,like on/off,but analogically. Even if you use a pad,use the right analog stick for the gas.

 

[fizzer]

Along with some of the good points above, there is some strategy to using ghost replays.

If you're greater than 1-2 secs behind a replay, its going to very frustrating to keep chasing it as it is so far away.

A better suggestion is to watch the faster lap in regular replay mode to find the fast driver's reference points (you are using reference points right? - see below) and see their throttle and brake technique.

Then, go out without a ghost and keep trying to beat YOUR ghost until your time gets closer to the fast ghost. Try to work on one corner at a time and only aim to improve your lap 1-2 tenths at a time. You have to be patient, trying to make big jumps in time will put too much pressure on yourself and hurt the learning process. If you can't seem to beat yourself on a particular corner, go back to the fast replay and watch to pick up tips.

When you get to within striking distance of a fast time, then load up the fast ghost and go for it.

On reference points - there are three basic reference points to every corner - turn in, apex, and track out. Work on nailing those and being consistent first. Then you want to add in additional reference points - brake application, brake release, throttle application, full throttle. Depending on the type of turn those can vary widely and some may not be applicable. Work on smooth transitions between the reference points. When attacking a corner, line and consistency first, then speed. The first three points define your line, additional ones guarantee speed.

 

[slothrop]

Good advice, I'm still a couple seconds off so I have some work to do. I've heard people here talk about diamond a corner what does that mean?

 

[Randum311]

Heres another question for veterans, how do you go about memorizing the turns? do you count them off in your head? use the map etc?

 

[Tmortn]

Heres another question for veterans, how do you go about memorizing the turns? do you count them off in your head? use the map etc?

- Run lots of laps... always try to be thinking a turn or two past the one coming up even if the track is new. If you are only thinking of the corner you are in you are behind. You should always be asking, where does this go and how can I get there faster? I like to go into practice mode with a slower very controllable car so I can focus on learning the turns. Do 10-20 or more of these laps and save the ghost if you are still having trouble.

- Keep trying to run through the track in your head until you have it cold. You should be able to completely visualize a lap without even firing the game up. I'll grant an exception on the Nurburgring... but even it you can memorize.

- If you are having trouble putting it all together (driving and remembering the corners) load up your ghost and watch the replay where you only have to focus on remembering what is coming up next. The cinematic replay is almost useless. You need to use a car point of view. High chase cam helps in some cases though I generally prefer the cockpit view (or whatever your race view of choice is).

- I find the map view is only helpful with really new tracks where I don't know the turns. If I am relying on it I am behind. Only time I win races that way is when I take a seriously over powered car to the race.

 

[Choate51]

Heres another question for veterans, how do you go about memorizing the turns? do you count them off in your head? use the map etc?

Remember the movie "cool runnings" or something like that with the jamaican bobsled team. Remember how they sat in the bathtub and rehearsed the entire track? That's exactly what happens to me. Since this has started I have remember each track and am running them in my head the entire time so when I jump back on I'm ready to go.

 

[wnx_echo0010]

On reference points - there are three basic reference points to every corner - turn in, apex, and track out. Work on nailing those and being consistent first. Then you want to add in additional reference points - brake application, brake release, throttle application, full throttle. Depending on the type of turn those can vary widely and some may not be applicable. Work on smooth transitions between the reference points. When attacking a corner, line and consistency first, then speed. The first three points define your line, additional ones guarantee speed.

Good stuff. I am going to try to implement this in stages.

 

[wnx_echo0010]

Remember the movie "cool runnings" or something like that with the jamaican bobsled team. Remember how they sat in the bathtub and rehearsed the entire track? That's exactly what happens to me. Since this has started I have remember each track and am running them in my head the entire time so when I jump back on I'm ready to go.

Ha! I was thinking about that movie as well. I will have to see if it is on Netflix.

I was trying to drive the Cap lap real slow and visualize each element in front of me before I got there. This way I would get in the habit of anticipating what is in front of me. This would be a way of learning the track on your way to memorizing the whole thing.

I was thinking it might be good to run four laps then just replay your best lap and watch for what works and what didn't. Also look for new visual ques. It would also give you a chance to take a mini break to reset and regroup.

While there is no substitute to spending a lot of time on the track --

“Practice does not make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect.”
Vince Lombardi

Thanks coach.

 

[fizzer]

Good advice, I'm still a couple seconds off so I have some work to do. I've heard people here talk about diamond a corner what does that mean?

That's slang for a double apex (used commonly by oval drivers).

If means that you hit an early apex, then rotate the car quickly in the center of the turn, and throttle out to a late second apex.

Its most often used on decreasing radius corners when you can game time on a fast entry instead of slowly trail braking and arcing it in for a late apex. It is useful on cars that don't rotate well under braking.

 

[Randum311]

- Run lots of laps... always try to be thinking a turn or two past the one coming up even if the track is new. If you are only thinking of the corner you are in you are behind. You should always be asking, where does this go and how can I get there faster? I like to go into practice mode with a slower very controllable car so I can focus on learning the turns. Do 10-20 or more of these laps and save the ghost if you are still having trouble.

- Keep trying to run through the track in your head until you have it cold. You should be able to completely visualize a lap without even firing the game up. I'll grant an exception on the Nurburgring... but even it you can memorize.

- If you are having trouble putting it all together (driving and remembering the corners) load up your ghost and watch the replay where you only have to focus on remembering what is coming up next. The cinematic replay is almost useless. You need to use a car point of view. High chase cam helps in some cases though I generally prefer the cockpit view (or whatever your race view of choice is).

- I find the map view is only helpful with really new tracks where I don't know the turns. If I am relying on it I am behind. Only time I win races that way is when I take a seriously over powered car to the race.

Thats a great approach, my Tsukuba runs are like this, I have each turn in my head...probably why its my best rank! (which isnt saying much!) I'll try with the others...

Remember the movie "cool runnings" or something like that with the jamaican bobsled team. Remember how they sat in the bathtub and rehearsed the entire track? That's exactly what happens to me. Since this has started I have remember each track and am running them in my head the entire time so when I jump back on I'm ready to go.

YES, I remember that exactly.

Success in GT reminds me of Halo; its a map controllable FPS, meaning in order to do well, you MUST know the map layout, as opposed to COD, which lends itself more to just being a good shot, watching corners (and learning the map helps a lot more too!) Basically learn the course/map, and the challenge then comes in controlling the beast you pick for a car.

 

[Choate51]

Here is my crappy MS paint picture for diamonding a corner lol.

 

[wnx_echo0010]

Here is my crappy MS paint picture for diamonding a corner lol.

That is a good line. Your MS Paint skilz are nearly as legendary as your racing skilz.


This is just a thought for all of the new racers (like myself). As some of the top racers have pointed out it is easier to find time on the two longer tracks. Keep in mind though that these guys have basically 'mastered' the Tsukuba track. They are trying to shave .001 of a second. Tsukuba is paired up with the basic slower car for a reason. This combo emphasizes racing fundamentals. With this combo you must focus on holding the driving line, entry speed, corner speed, throttle control on exit, etc. All of these things are on this track at a slower painful speed. You can learn this track quickly and become intimate with it in a way that would take more time on the two longer tracks. This means you can quickly focus on the technique of each sequence instead of trying to remember them and prepare for them.

At the same time you are learning the fundamentals and learning this particular track you are also learning how to be a good student of racing. You are learning in a summary way all of the skills you will need to master as the speeds increase and the line between blinding fast brilliance and utter disaster becomes the bleeding razor edge of doom.

My advice is to practice Tsukuba. Race Tsukuba until your eyes bleed and your controller dissolves into mangled mess of melted plastic and copper. Then get out of your virtual car and crawl on your hands and knees around the track until every rock and pebble has been cataloged, numbered and named affectionate nick names like azzcramp42. Then close your eyes and dream you are a river flowing over every inch of the tarmac. At last every molecule of your subconscious mind has been absorbed. You are Mighty Tsukuba. Cape Ring with melt before your might. Rome reverse will howl in panic and crumble in fear.

Where was I... Oh yea. At this point you will know how to learn a track and how to continue learning how to race.

 

[S240sx24]

Well hey guys, well im sort new on here but what the heck on with GT academy. So im at the rome track and im 137th on the chart, im chasing down TunerUSA's time and im all over him in the first part of the track but once i get to the other half of the track after the S turn uphill, I close in braking but once i try to throttle it i have slight wheel spin or i roll on the throttle gently and yet he still pulls away. Is there any of you guys who can help me out, just give me a general idea what im doing wrong. And sorry if im asking in the wrong thread too.

 

[Sohvakettu]

- Keep trying to run through the track in your head until you have it cold. You should be able to completely visualize a lap without even firing the game up. I'll grant an exception on the Nurburgring... but even it you can memorize.

No exeptions! In GT4 i could run Nordschleife in my head from begining to the end and i'm getting back there in GT5 too. Patience and thinking ahead are the keys. Don't start 100% but learn the track and the line with 80% pace first.