Supercar Cup Race 6: CTR Evolution? (Results)

[Austin343]

Supercar Cup Race 6
RUF CTR "Yellow Bird" '87 or RUF CTR2 '96 at El Capitan Reverse

[As always, if anyone would like to volunteer to take a picture, it will go here ]
Thanks, raz_10!
​

Race Specifics

• Arcade Mode Time Trial - hotlap
  
• Power: 0% (463 HP for the CTR, 514 HP for the CTR2)
• Weight: -10% (1035 kg for the CTR, 1242 kg for the CTR2)
  
• Tire Type: N3 for CTR, S1 for CTR2
  
• Driving aids and transmission mode are open.
• Standard OLR cleanliness rules apply: Two wheels must be in contact with the track at all times; rumble strips are part of the track; no contact with walls allowed at any time.
• Try out both cars, decide which is faster for you, do the fastest lap you can, and submit it.
• Please PM me your final time and the car you used by Tuesday July 21 by 11:59 pm GMT (world clock).

Series General Rules

• All six races will be run in Arcade Mode, using a variety of the fastest road cars in the game (including some tuned and concept cars; also, most cars will have stock power and -10% weight), and each will last one week, with a submission deadline of Tuesday.
• Standard OLR cleanliness rules apply: Two wheels must be in contact with the track at all times; rumble strips are part of the track; no contact with walls allowed at any time.
• Discussion of times in the race thread during the week will be limited to split times (T1, T2). Final times are not to be discussed and must be submitted to me by PM before the week's deadline.
• Please save your best lap replay in case I request proof, which is unlikely but possible. Unlike last series, since there were no problems, I will not require photo proof of the winner. However, I reserve the right to request a photo of a time if I am suspicious of it.
• Each race will award points towards the overall championship standings to all who submit a clean lap/race time, with the winner receiving 10 points, second place 8, third place 6, and fourth on down each separated by 1 point (5, 4, 3, etc.). No points will be awarded to a non-submitting driver. You do not have to announce your participation in the championship beforehand: anyone may participate in a race and be counted into the championship points, even if you do not plan on running all the races; similarly, there is no obligation to participate in every race. The driver with the most points at the end of the six races will win the championship.

This is it: the series finale, and it will be a tough one. The theme this week is the evolution of the CTR, from the legendary but wild Yellow Bird to the modern and tamer CTR2, and which of the two is faster. Both cars have stock power, but the CTR2 has the advantage of better tires, for which I tried to simulate 9 years of progress by stepping up a grade. Because of the wheelspin and weight of the CTR2, however, both cars will still run very equal lap times if you learn how to work around and take advantage of each of their unique characteristics. Both cars do require patience and care, and you may find yourselves having to wrestle them around this undulating track; you will find some places tricky that you never even considered corners before. One or the other will definitely suit you better, but give them both a fair effort before dismissing it as a piece of junk in the first turn, because the laps you set may surprise you. This time, you may discuss which of the two cars you're using. Have fun!

Leaderboard

Austin343    37.509 - 1'16.625 (CTR)
raz_10       38.133 - 1'18.003 (CTR2)
Codename L   37.810 - 1'18.335 (CTR)
Denur        38.358 - 1'18.492 (CTR2)
oldmodelt    40.669 - 1'24.015 (CTR)

Results

Austin343      1'49.905 (CTR)
Denur          1'52.005 (CTR2)
raz_10         1'52.439 (CTR2)
AyJay          1'59.295 (CTR2)
oldmodelt      2'01.137 (CTR)

Final Championship Standings

Driver        Race 1   Race 2   Race 3   Race 4   Race 5   Race 6   Total
Austin343       10       10       10       0        10       10      50
raz_10          6        6        5        10       6        6       39
Denur           0        0        6        6        5        8       25
Smallhorses     8        8        8        0        0        0       24
oldmodelt       5        4        3        5        2        4       23
ruppi           0        5        4        0        0        0       9
InsaneRacer     0        0        0        0        8        0       8
AyJay           4        0        0        4        0        5       13
Aremburgkerve   0        0        0        0        4        0       4
EDK             0        0        0        0        3        0       3
superspeed      0        0        0        0        1        0       1

 

[oldmodelt]

First thing I thought about was a video I saw on YouTube.

Stefan Rosers lap of the Nurburgring in the late 1980's 460bhp rear wheel drive Ruf 911 vs GT4 Ruf YellowBird n1 tires, no electronic aids.

Type in "Gran Turismo 4 vs Reality".

Put in a few laps in both. Like AH Reverse, not much experience on it. And I supect that even with N3's the '87 is very quick once I get the drifting down better. Initial splits with the '96.

CTR2 45.298 - 131.376

 

[Austin343]

Your instincts are absolutely accurate with regard to the Yellow Bird. When you nail the sliding around tighter corners and keep it as straight as possible on the shallow ones, it is faster than the CTR2, if less user-friendly! For me, an ideal lap with the newer car is around a second slower than one with the classic car, but right now I'm only about half a second faster in the CTR. The lap with the splits on the leaderboard is probably about half a second slower than my capabilities, and I've been that far ahead going into the final turn a couple times, but on that lap I absolutely nailed the last corner, where there is an enormous amount (over half a second) to lose if you don't take it quite right.

 

[Lucas]

I know I'm not exactly a person to be trusted with in terms of competitions, since I always say "I will enter" and things like that. This may be one of those times. Had the track been the forward layout, I would enter definitely. I put 2000km on the RUF CTR on the Nürburgring, on N2 tires. I know little about this track, just because of the races the game makes you to do. But since it's the Yellowbird, I will try to give it a go 👍 If I do, I will start posting times tomorrow.

 

[raz_10]

Three laps on the CTR2
all I have time for right now

39.069
1'21.431

 

[Lucas]

Put one lap on the CTR, just to see how it handles.

39.912 - 1'22.048

I need to get used to the car, and fast. It's been a while since I have driven the stock CTR on the 'Ring. Anyways, I will practice later today. 👍

 

[raz_10]

New splits CTR2
38.583
1'19.933

 

[Denur]

Now I understand all that hubbub about Porsches being in GT5. This car is a lot of fun to drive indeed! I realize that it is the first time that I've driven the car and it is hard, but very challanging and fun (I start to repeat myself). There is a lot more in it, but these are my first splits, with the ol' yellow bird (CTR), without TC, nor ASM.

T1: 40.254
T2: 1'23.792

 

[Lucas]

Practiced more, and here are my new splits.

37.810 - 1'18.335

I almost killed myself when I did a lap slightly slower than this one, and realized it was dirty. Luckily, I didn't restarted, and the lap following that one, bested the previous time in a totally clean manner

I will see if I can beat the time once again. I almost run off the course at turn 9E (AMG's map), so if I can keep up with the ghost until that turn, and complete it cleanly, I should be able to beat it without problem

By the way, I agree with you on that, Denur. If every Porsche is as fun as this car, then we definitely need them in GT5! 👍

 

[Austin343]

I tried again and reached my goal, but now I see about .7 more seconds still out there despite taking off that same amount on this lap. A lot of that has to do with figuring out how to better drive the car, which apparently means not "drifting" it most of the time. 💡 Knowing that I still left a lot on the table, I kept trying for a while longer and once reached the infamous hill on an almost perfect lap, but forgot how to take it correctly and crashed. About half of the time I'm missing is before T2, and about half after.

37.484 - 1'17.291

Lucas, I thought the reverse track fit the cars better, and I was trying not to use an overused track, which the forward layout is (although very understandably so).

That's a great video, oldmodelt. 👍 To save everyone the trouble, it's here:


This car is very fun indeed, although I think GT4 physics are still too nice to it. Still, I can only imagine what it would be like to drive with a wheel.

 

[raz_10]

Update...

38.129
1'18.441


**UPDATE II**

38.133
1'18.003

 

[Denur]

Today I tried the CTR 2. This one is way way easier to drive than the old CTR, but not necessarily more fun (almost boring). Without a problem I gained over 5 seconds compared with my CTR best lap time. And there is more to come, especially in sectors 1 and 3.

CTR 2
T1: 39.111
T2: 1'19.463

 

[Austin343]

That was the idea: to have one car theoretically faster but hard to drive, and another car slower but easier to drive. Considering its understeer and wheelspin, I still find the newer car surprisingly fun around this track, even though it's slower.

raz, those are really fast splits for the CTR2 (which I assume you're still using). I just want to make absolutely sure you're using 0% power and S1s. I doubt you got anything wrong, but since my best in that car is about half a second slower, it's good to check. 👍

 

[Denur]

Uhm, I meant boring compared to the old CTR. The CTR2 is still great to drive. 👍

 

[Austin343]

raz, never mind what I said about making sure your specs were correct. I thought I was close to my limit with my old CTR2 lap, but considering that I just improved it by about 0.9 (to within 0.4 of my CTR lap) in about 45 minutes, that was apparently not the case. For reference, my splits for that lap were 37.511 - 1'17.399.

 

[raz_10]

Uhm, I meant boring compared to the old CTR. The CTR2 is still great to drive. 👍

It does feel a little tamer!
I suck with N tires and being that the "Yellow Bird" is a monster
I am inclined to use the CRT2.
But I am improving on my laps by doing a lap with the YB then improving them with the CTR2 as my YB laps are not clean.

raz, never mind what I said about making sure your specs were correct. I thought I was close to my limit with my old CTR2 lap, but considering that I just improved it by about 0.9 (to within 0.4 of my CTR lap) in about 45 minutes, that was apparently not the case. For reference, my splits for that lap were 37.511 - 1'17.399.

No worries...I actually left lots of time out there... I have gone way faster in some corners 👍 but getting the balance right to put more than one fast turn together is getting in the way!

 

[Austin343]

I tried once again, and beat my time by about 0.35, mostly by gaining most of what I had left in the last corner.

37.323 - 1'17.147

Very soon after (on the next lap?), I had a basically perfect lap going (T2 of 1'16.7 ) and then threw it away with a stupid but simple error, the repercussions of which in a car like this can still be felt multiple corners later. I short-shifted to fourth in the shallow right-hander before the last corner in an attempt to swing the rear out a bit and make the turn, but once past the moment of no throttle, there's more understeer in higher gears. I didn't quite hit the invisible wall, but I was off-line for the critical last corner, and because the car sliding reduces the grip available for braking, I backed into the wall on the outside. I now know my goal, which I was on track to reach on the botched lap, but the chances of me attaining it are vanishingly small.

 

[Denur]

I gave both cars another short try tonight. The last sector of the CTR is not clean, but since its lap is slower than the CTR2, I'll post it anyway.

CTR:
T1: 40.508
T2: 1'21.707

CTR2:
T1: 38.604
T2: 1'19.187

 

[oldmodelt]

The thing that makes this race so interesting is the obvious. The drifting of the car and how to control it. But what was/is more difficult, at least for me is how quiet the Yellow Bird is. Deceptively so. Before you know it you're doing 110-120. And it sounds like you're cruising along at 50mph. Starting to get the hang of it. But still at the rear.

CTR 42.905 - 1'27.186

 

[Denur]

I gave both cars a good try today. For CTR2 I'm about at my limit, maybe there's a few tenths to be gained, but not much more. The old CTR is proving to be a darn nice car, I've even seen a mid .38 for T1, which is about as good as I get with the CTR2.

CTR2:
T1: 38.358
T2: 1'18.492

 

[AyJay]

I put 2000km on the RUF CTR on the Nürburgring, on N2 tires.

You sir, just blew my mind The CTR is quite a handful with the wheel, especially for me! I'll hopefully get to test the CTR2 out before the deadline, too.

 

[Austin343]

Not again! Once again, I demolished my old lap time, but it seems like every new best lap I set, I expose several places where I lost a bunch of time. In this case, a very sloppy lap up through the hairpin saw me lose as much as 0.7 seconds to my theoretical best, but a banzai run over the hill and a stronger than expected last sector saw me improve my old time by 0.55 seconds.

37.509 - 1'16.625

I've done a 37.085 in T1 and immediately threw it away, so there's 0.4 there. You'll also see when I post my lap that I braked too early for the following double right and messed up my line, and that I didn't hold a tight enough line in the hairpin, so there's 0.3 more in T2 as well. Unfortunately, I'll never repeat the second half of my current best lap, much less when I have a great run going before the hill.

I don't know how the rest of you feel, but the only corner I think I'm taking the same way twice is the last corner - but only before the timed lap starts!

 

[oldmodelt]

Final T's. Having a ball with the YB. There are so few RR in GT4. Hitting the peak on the hills can only be described as floating? CTR2 is not as much fun as compared to the YB.

40.669 - 1'24.015

Time submitted.

 

[AyJay]

I really had trouble handling the Yellowbird with my lack of wheel experience and practice with both it and this track, but it was still quite a good surprise to see that I had knocked ten seconds off the Yellowbird's time with the more stable CTR2. It took some getting used to, but I've got the general feel of the car and track now - another upside to these series! 👍 Looks like I can't do any more laps, submitting time.

 

[Denur]

Today only the CTR2, going for a fast time. Lowandbehold, I improved my T1 and T2 big time, only to brake a bit too late for the righthander right after T2 and losing a zillion seconds. That lap's T1 was 37.991 and T2 was 1'17.838.

My submitted lap has a worse T1 than posted last Sunday and a slighter better T2 (about 0.08 second) and the final sector did not feel very fast, albeit my fasted lap overall.


edit> Just a suggestion for a next series: These kind of cars will do quite nicely indeed! As long as the tracks are not in GT5p

 

[Austin343]

I've put up the results I have right now, but I will have to wait to update the standings until raz_10 gets home to submit his time in about three hours. He PMed me early today to tell me he had left his time at home, so I can accept a late submission as long as nobody objects. And I don't think we're so competitive that we would do so.

Congratulations on some very good times from everyone in tricky cars on a tough track, and thank you all for your participation in this series. 👍 I'm glad that GT4 isn't quite dead yet. I'm not sure whether I'll do another series. If I do, I'll have to think of a different theme (I do have a couple in mind) and it wouldn't start until mid-August or later because I'm going to be on vacation a couple thousand miles away from the PS2.

Edit: Here's my lap. I also included my CTR2 lap, just in case those of you who used that car were curious to see it. By the way, if you hear a rumbling sound, it isn't the car; there's a thunderstorm outside right now.

 

[oldmodelt]

Just when I was going to get 5 points, it's taken away. LOL. Waiting for Raz_10 to submit is the least I can do for another AT buddy(at least for one race).

Austin343, have fun on vac..... and don't forget to submit those GTPLMS times.

Nice videos. The CTR one would make those in the drifting threads proud. And you did it without all the tuning.

 

[Denur]

Yeah, let's have Raz_10's time. 👍

Nice driving Austin.

 

[raz_10]

Ok thank you all...finally home from work

Time sent
Thank you Austin for waiting and for running another great series!
Have fun on vacation 👍

Also a big Thank you to all that participated keep GT4 Alive...

Congrats Denur!!!!Dont say congrats to Austin he is automatic WIN ...haha

Congrats all

 

[Denur]

So what is your time Raz?