The 2005 Ford Mustang: Continuation or Disappointment of a Legend?

[JohnBM01]

While I'm watching Green Bay get their asses whipped by the Tennessee Titans (41-13, 4th Quarter; about 10:30 as of the time of this typing), you may remember me making a topic called, "The Corvette C6: Continuation of a Legend or Disappointment of a Legend?" With that Corvette C6 topic, I'm going to go to another American legend, the good old Ford Mustang. The newest Mustang is a no-fancy, no-flashy, bare-bones muscle car. If you know your Mustangs, this bad boy harks back to the Shelby GT350. If you ask me, the same gripes I had about the Corvette C6 are almost fully opposite to how I feel about the newest Mustang. While it may look a little on the dull side, the car's appearance is very manly and aggressive (someone joked that it was a girl's car). I don't see the little side duct, but the detail is there. The car has the two side lights similar on the GT350 and GT500 (that's the Shelby GT500, not to confuse you JGTC fans). And to me, the car's style is strikingly more similar to the GT350 than the more powerful and heavier GT500. Speaking of the GT500, I read it had a 428 cid V8 based on the Interceptor which delivered 355hp.

GTPlanet, do you think the newest Mustang is a continuation of this low-priced muscle car legend, or do you think it's a disappointment? If I had to call, I'd say it's a continuation and here's why. I'm not really a Mustang man, but I think that this machine is very nostalgic and while being more of a throwback, it's highly modern and doesn't really compromise. The lines are clean, the power is pretty good... basically, you're getting a new-age Shelby GT350 (arguable point). I applaud Ford for going old school while keeping up with the new school. I'd love to see it in GT racing or perhaps more importantly: the Trans-Am Series. And I don't mean that GT-R concept with two small headlights, I'm talking about keeping the stock-style lights, a GT wing (short or long), lighter weight, and basically a throwback in the modern world.

Your turn, GTPlanet!

 

[skip0110]

The new Mustang looks good. It has plenty of power. But, I think that it will be several years before you see the '05 Mustang (what are they calling this chassis?) running with the Fox, SN95, and New Edge 'Stangs.

Here's why: although a major gripe about these cars was that they are based on 25-year old underpinnings (the New Edge is directly realted to the first Fox-body, a '78) these cars are very well sorted. People know the flaws, and there is a thriving aftermarket to take care of them and make these babies haul (whether it be in the straight-line or the curves).

Now, it's going to be a few years before the aftermarket can develop new parts for this platform. A great number of drag races using the New Edge body just drop in a 5.0, because this engine makes big HP very easily and cheaply, and it fits perfectly. Is a 5.0 going to fit in the '05 Mustang's bay this easily? If not, this is going to discourage a lot of people form moving to this new platform.

 

[Klostrophobic]

It's an improvement on the 'legend.'

There isn't a new car today I would rather own than an '05 Cobra.

 

[98cobra]

At first I didn't like it, but ever since I saw the "boy racer" version (seen on the discovery channel) It started to grow on me. I think all it needs is some lowering and some larger wheels and it'll be set. Maybe something like this:

(John, you know I had to do it )

 

[TheCracker]

As a Brit who doesn't see Mustangs on a day-to-day basis, only in pictures or the 64's (notchbacks) that i race against, i have to say that i like the styling of the new Mustang - it's retro without being too retro. It manages follow the attractive, unfussy and well proportioned shape of the original 65/66 'fastback' Mustang without resorting to the retro detailings that make the 'new' Beetle, the 'new' Mini and even the 350Z and Ford GT's look a little contrived.

 

[Gil]

My only issue with it is purely cosmetic.
Back in the 60's the more popular version was the notchback. Yet Ford chose to emulate the fastback.
I don't know how many of you are "fanatics", but the rear window in the old fastback is harder to see out of, and it's a pain to clean.
Plus in hatch, and fast back configurations the rear window is bigger and heavier.

I still really like the new car. However, with Ford's relationship with Jaguar, you'd think they could get some good ideas for updated suspension. Of course then, they might not be able to meet thier desired price point.

 

[TheCracker]

Ford always say that it keeps using stone-age suspension techniques on the Mustang because thats what the customer wants. But i'm sure these people would still buy Mustangs if they had a more modern set up - you can still dial-in a decent amount of over-steer - even without feeling like your 'ride' should be pulled by horses (i suppose thats where the Pony tag comes from)

Ford could probably sell the Mustang in huge amounts in Europe if only it would get the suspention sorted. There are very few cars in its (probable) price range, unless you want a AWD Turbo Mitsi or Subaru - Only the 350Z or RX8 would compete, but they are much better suited to Euro roads then the Mustang is, unfortunatly.

I agree that the 'notch' was a prettier shape, but in today's market, could they get away with selling a 2 door saloon?

 

[///M-Spec]

Ford always say that it keeps using stone-age suspension techniques on the Mustang because thats what the customer wants.

I don't believe that for a second. Its a simple cost issue.

A small percentage of GT buyers who are the core enthusiasts perfer the solid axle over an IRS for drag applications.

But the vast majority of GT buyers couldn't tell you the difference.

A tiny percentage who understand and want the benefits of an IRS in a Mustang aren't enough for Ford to bother with designing, testing and producing IRS for the base/GT cars. They figure those people just need to pony up 35k for a Cobra.

But given that a $10,000 Kia comes with IRS, its a shame Ford doesn't just bite the bullet and give the car more solid credentials. Of course, a $10,000 Kia doesn't come with 300 hp, either.

I still like it, though. The Mustang, that is. Not so much the Kia.


M

 

[98cobra]

Ford always say that it keeps using stone-age suspension techniques on the Mustang because thats what the customer wants. But i'm sure these people would still buy Mustangs if they had a more modern set up - you can still dial-in a decent amount of over-steer - even without feeling like your 'ride' should be pulled by horses (i suppose thats where the Pony tag comes from)

Ford could probably sell the Mustang in huge amounts in Europe if only it would get the suspention sorted. There are very few cars in its (probable) price range, unless you want a AWD Turbo Mitsi or Subaru - Only the 350Z or RX8 would compete, but they are much better suited to Euro roads then the Mustang is, unfortunatly.

I agree that the 'notch' was a prettier shape, but in today's market, could they get away with selling a 2 door saloon?

The '05 does have a new suspension. In MT, they said it handled way better than the previous stangs. It also has a longer wheelbase.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

I think the new 05 Mustang is one of the nicest in a long time. 👍 👍

 

[Ev0]

I love the new Mustang. It's affordable, attractive, well built, and above all, fast and fun to drive. The GT is probably one of the best bang for your buck cars on the market right now.

 

[LoudMusic]

It's about as nice as any other Mustang for their respective time period. I don't really see how anyone can argue - it's not like they made it front wheel drive or something rediculous like that.

 

[skip0110]

Is a 5.0 going to fit in the '05 Mustang's bay?

So nobody knows? Any I'm not talking about any Cammer 5.0, I'm talking about 302 pushrod action.

 

[nissandrifter]

cool Mustang, looks like the model from The 1970'S.

 

[ND4SPD]

Its nice but It could use a bit more tweaking, like it doesn't feel finished to me I don't know why but it does.

 

[Firebird]

So nobody knows? Any I'm not talking about any Cammer 5.0, I'm talking about 302 pushrod action.

Don't see why not.

5.0s are tiny compared to 4.6s.

 

[JohnBM01]

Mr. 98Cobra, you mentioned a "boy racer" Mustang from the Discovery Channel. You're not talking about the GT-R Concept, are you?

I will admit. Times have changed. We take a classic car as a cue, then build up this new Mustang and make it very much like the GT350 Shelby. While I'm not really a hot rod or muscle car enthusiast, the Mustang is a pretty cool machine no matter what others think. Actually, I think this is the only other cool reborn American car other than the Pontiac GTO (at least I think), Ford Cobra, and/or the Ford GT. This Mustang isn't really fancy. You know, nothing to exude European styling like hood scoops and such. Should be a blast to drive. Sure like to see one on the road here in Houston. I tell you, they would be pretty nice to have on the drag strip, the Autocross track, or even some club racing. East of Houston, we have Baytown. Baytown is kind of better known for the drag strip there, but also includes a "short track."

So 98Cobra, if you have the money, would you want this new Mustang? When it comes to "emulating the fastback," I'd like to try to have you people post some pictures or links of past Mustangs and try to compare them to the new Mustang's looks. I have my big book on sportscars, but can't really have two good models for comparison.

 

[McLaren'sAngel]

Hiya! Meow! (='.'=)

I really think that the new Mustang is going to be a MAJOR Continuation of a legend. Just watch when ALOT of middle aged people put their 1st Gen mustang in the garage and go to FORD to purchase a new Mustang! And then you will see like a bunch of younger owners turn in their mustang(s) and buy the new Mustang. I in fact think the new Mustang is in HIGH DEMAND already!

It's very hard to tell yourself to not like it because you can like other cars more or simply not a mustang fan. It got some of the old look that many like. It got good amount of HP! And it especially got that "Mustang" retail price! Cheap for how much you get out of it!

I am simply just going to wait when it releases and will notice in 1 month...the new Mustang will be common on the streets and will be visible EVERYDAY!

 

[98cobra]

Mr. 98Cobra, you mentioned a "boy racer" Mustang from the Discovery Channel. You're not talking about the GT-R Concept, are you?

I will admit. Times have changed. We take a classic car as a cue, then build up this new Mustang and make it very much like the GT350 Shelby. While I'm not really a hot rod or muscle car enthusiast, the Mustang is a pretty cool machine no matter what others think. Actually, I think this is the only other cool reborn American car other than the Pontiac GTO (at least I think), Ford Cobra, and/or the Ford GT. This Mustang isn't really fancy. You know, nothing to exude European styling like hood scoops and such. Should be a blast to drive. Sure like to see one on the road here in Houston. I tell you, they would be pretty nice to have on the drag strip, the Autocross track, or even some club racing. East of Houston, we have Baytown. Baytown is kind of better known for the drag strip there, but also includes a "short track."

So 98Cobra, if you have the money, would you want this new Mustang? When it comes to "emulating the fastback," I'd like to try to have you people post some pictures or links of past Mustangs and try to compare them to the new Mustang's looks. I have my big book on sportscars, but can't really have two good models for comparison.

To answer your questions John, no the "boy racer" is the white Mustang pictured above. I believe it has a 5.0L stroker taken from a cobra engine that produces 420hp and 375lb-ft of torque all-motor. And if I had the money yes I would pick up the new Mustang, but I'd wait for the Cobra model.

 

[98cobra]

John, here's your timeline to compare.
aren't I great
http://bradbarnett.net/mustangs/timeline

 

[TheCracker]

Good link

They were damn ugly between 74 and 93 weren't they! - especially 74-78

 

[98cobra]

Good link

They were damn ugly between 74 and 93 weren't they! - especially 74-78

Thanks, the 74-78s were the worst.

 

[skip0110]

Thanks, the 74-78s were the worst.

Some of those years they didnt even have a V8 engine option

 

[Lethalchem]

The new Mustang looks good. It has plenty of power. But, I think that it will be several years before you see the '05 Mustang (what are they calling this chassis?) running with the Fox, SN95, and New Edge 'Stangs.

Here's why: although a major gripe about these cars was that they are based on 25-year old underpinnings (the New Edge is directly realted to the first Fox-body, a '78) these cars are very well sorted. People know the flaws, and there is a thriving aftermarket to take care of them and make these babies haul (whether it be in the straight-line or the curves).

Now, it's going to be a few years before the aftermarket can develop new parts for this platform. A great number of drag races using the New Edge body just drop in a 5.0, because this engine makes big HP very easily and cheaply, and it fits perfectly. Is a 5.0 going to fit in the '05 Mustang's bay this easily? If not, this is going to discourage a lot of people form moving to this new platform.

I have to disagree with you. The 05 Mustang GT has already been on a dyno, and laid down 254rwhp on a MUSTANG Dyno.

It is said that a Mustang Dyno can be as much as 12% lower than a regular dyno. If this is true, then stock numbers would be 284.6rwhp....or basically 334.8hp at the crank. I have no proof of actual variance data, but if it's true, then Ford seems to have underrated the output of the car (again) just like on the Mach1 and on my Cobra. The old 5.0 will need quite a bit of modifying to reach those numbers (I've owned many), and stock for stock, the only past/current mustang that will be faster will be the 03/04 Cobra's and perhaps a Mach1.

As for the aftermarket. Several major aftermarket companies have been given early production models of the car by Ford for the specific reason of providing aftermarket support for this car. They have been testing/researching mods for it for quite awhile already. 👍

It's an improvement on the 'legend.'

I agree..

There isn't a new car today I would rather own than an '05 Cobra.

I disagree. There is no such car. 2004 will be the last Mustang Cobra until 06.

As a Brit who doesn't see Mustangs on a day-to-day basis, only in pictures or the 64's (notchbacks) that i race against, i have to say that i like the styling of the new Mustang - it's retro without being too retro. It manages follow the attractive, unfussy and well proportioned shape of the original 65/66 'fastback' Mustang without resorting to the retro detailings that make the 'new' Beetle, the 'new' Mini and even the 350Z and Ford GT's look a little contrived.

I'm not too pumped about the current incarnation of the new car, but it's just a starting point for Ford. There is going to be some bad as-looking cars coming off th elines in the near future. I'm looking forward to the different versions that are still on their way: SVT Cobra, Saleen, Roush, and Steeda. Not to mention the possibilities of a continued Mach1, rumors of a BOSS, and then the Carrol Shelby versions you KNOW are going to be coming down the line now that he's involved.

Even lowering springs and wheels can make a big difference:

 

[ND4SPD]

Hot damn!, that lowered black mustang, with the bigger rims looks absolutely georgeous, the stock rims are so disgusting.

On another note, I totally forgot that my grandpa has a blue 1968 Ford mustang GT in beautiful condition that he'll be willing to give me if I ever move to california.

 

[skip0110]

I have to disagree with you. The 05 Mustang GT has already been on a dyno, and laid down 254rwhp on a MUSTANG Dyno.

It is said that a Mustang Dyno can be as much as 12% lower than a regular dyno. If this is true, then stock numbers would be 284.6rwhp....or basically 334.8hp at the crank. I have no proof of actual variance data, but if it's true, then Ford seems to have underrated the output of the car (again) just like on the Mach1 and on my Cobra. The old 5.0 will need quite a bit of modifying to reach those numbers (I've owned many), and stock for stock, the only past/current mustang that will be faster will be the 03/04 Cobra's and perhaps a Mach1.

As for the aftermarket. Several major aftermarket companies have been given early production models of the car by Ford for the specific reason of providing aftermarket support for this car. They have been testing/researching mods for it for quite awhile already. 👍

Point well taken. That torque curve looks like my coffee table. 👍

And it looks like Ford is keeping the enthusiast in mind.

EDIT: Although, the more I think of it, the 4.6 reaches it's horespower limit around 375 hp without forced induction/nitrous. 5.0s have a little more potential than that (think cam/heads/intake), I thought. Although I can't find a dyno test to back me up.

 

[Lethalchem]

Good link

They were damn ugly between 74 and 93 weren't they! - especially 74-78

Ohhh..I don't think the 87-93's were THAT bad.

What do you think?

EDIT: Although, the more I think of it, the 4.6 reaches it's horespower limit around 375 hp without forced induction/nitrous. 5.0s have a little more potential than that (think cam/heads/intake), I thought. Although I can't find a dyno test to back me up.

You can do heads,cams, and intake on the 4.6 as well. I can even swap cams on my Cobra, if I wanted to buy four of the expensive things! 👎

No doubt about it though, mods are MUCH cheaper on the good old 5.0's. 👍

 

[skip0110]

Ohhh..I don't think the 87-93's were THAT bad.

What do you think?

They are all very sexy. But wait...I always thought they were sexy
And thank god you did not show the clear tails on that blue car. They make me sick. The "cheese grater" covers look just fine, thank you.

 

[98cobra]

Ohhh..I don't think the 87-93's were THAT bad.

What do you think?

You can do heads,cams, and intake on the 4.6 as well. I can even swap cams on my Cobra, if I wanted to buy four of the expensive things! 👎

No doubt about it though, mods are MUCH cheaper on the good old 5.0's. 👍

Seen some of those before. 👍

 

[super cirrus]

sweet. The stock wheels and tires definitly make the car look less sporty. Also they coulda modernized the suspension a bit more. But other than that, looks good.