The Controller & Rumble

[Quisp]

Can someone clarify if vibration/rumble is being eliminated from ONLY Sony's controllers, or will that effect be unattainable in other manufacturers controllers as well?
It seems as tho Sony removed it for the PS3(even tho they wont tell you this)because of the lawsuit with the company who developed this patent. Sony claims it interfered with the wifi capabilities of the new SONY PS3 controller, even tho Immersion(I think their name is) claims that vibration and wifi can be easily obtained.

I guess Im just wondering how games like GTHD/GT5 will seem without rumble?

Will the PS3 be able to recognize rumble from, say, a Logitech PS3 controller WITH vibration, if they so choose to develop that? Is this ommission specific ONLY to the SONY PS3 controllers?

 

[DuckRacer]

Can someone clarify if vibration/rumble is being eliminated from ONLY Sony's controllers, or will that effect be unattainable in other manufacturers controllers as well?

If other manufacturers want to pay the fee to Immersion for rumble, they can use rumble in their controllers (like what Microsoft and I assume Nintendo did).

It seems as tho Sony removed it for the PS3(even tho they wont tell you this)because of the lawsuit with the company who developed this patent. Sony claims it interfered with the wifi capabilities of the new SONY PS3 controller, even tho Immersion(I think their name is) claims that vibration and wifi can be easily obtained.

And it can.

I guess Im just wondering how games like GTHD/GT5 will seem without rumble?

It's not going to matter for the people who are going to use the DFP or G25 wheels, since those have force feedback, but my guess is that GT5 will be not nearly as immersive without rumble.

Will the PS3 be able to recognize rumble from, say, a Logitech PS3 controller WITH vibration, if they so choose to develop that? Is this ommission specific ONLY to the SONY PS3 controllers?

I would think so. If it can recognize force feedback from wheel, it should recognize rumble from other manufacturers.

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

If rumble is not coded into a game, then it will not work with a 3rd party controller.

 

[speed_demon]

the raeson that rumble was taken out of the controllers wasnt anything to do with wifi it was due to the motion sensing part of the controller being so sensitive that rumble would interfer with the motion sensors part of games and possibly damage them

 

[Circle T]

the raeson that rumble was taken out of the controllers wasnt anything to do with wifi it was due to the motion sensing part of the controller being so sensitive that rumble would interfer with the motion sensors part of games and possibly damage them

Wrong. Here is a quote from the Immersion CEO on this exact subject...

He continued, "If you remember, the day after they announced they were going to take vibration out of their controller I said that we'd be happy to work with them to solve the technical problem, and our engineers in less than a day had come up with three solutions; one is filtering and the other is processing and neither one is incrementally an increase in the cost. Both are using software to filter out the different commands—tilt vs. vibration—so that both can work side by side, and neither solution will add an increase to the cost of the system... We knew how to technically solve their problems and now we know how to do it without adding any incremental cost."

Read the rest of the article, then get back to us if you have any more ideas.

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=14010

CT

 

[DuckRacer]

the raeson that rumble was taken out of the controllers wasnt anything to do with wifi it was due to the motion sensing part of the controller being so sensitive that rumble would interfer with the motion sensors part of games and possibly damage them

Nope, that's Sony's lame excuse. The reason it's not in there is because Sony doesn't want to pay the large sum of fees to Immersion to use their technology - which they used "illegally" with the PS2.

 

[HiyakuShiro]

Nope, that's Sony's lame excuse. The reason it's not in there is because Sony doesn't want to pay the large sum of fees to Immersion to use their technology - which they used "illegally" with the PS2.

A million dollar company once again cutting corners to make profit, much like labour in China and Mexico, nothing wrong with this as it adds to their economy but it's ridiculous the extent companies will go just to make an outrageous profit. . .Big surprise? No.

 

[LaBounti]

Buts Immersion is the one begging for the help now. Seeing that the Sixaxis is going for $50 now. Microsoft lost tons of cash from using a Pentium and nvidia gpu and could not afford to make smaller parts for a smaller chaeper Xbox, it would have cost them even more and they still wouldn't have made a profit. Now they own their technology and paid off Immersion cuz they were in the same boat.

Immersion got their money 90mill. Sony closes it doors. PS1 did not have rumble atr first its still an option in the future. Yes Sony is full of excuses but who would come out and say. "hey we owe Immersion $90,000,000 so we really dont want to pay them". I dont remembetr if it was Phil or Kaz who said that but Kaz cleared it up

 

[Solid Lifters]

Dissecting the Sixaxis

http://www.destructoid.com/dissecting-the-ps3-sixaxis-controller

 

[Jedi2016]

In the end, there is no excuse. Even if what they said was true, that it interfered with the motion-sensing in some way, that can be remedied by a simple menu option. The user can pick rumble or motion. One or the other, but not both.

That would have been the way to go. Now, after all this time, Sony is the one with no rumble, after two entire game generations of rumble being a mainstay, a standard for gaming, now they've removed it because it "wasn't important". Hmph.

 

[Tornado]

That would have been the way to go. Now, after all this time, Sony is the one with no rumble, after two entire game generations of rumble being a mainstay, a standard for gaming, now they've removed it because it "wasn't important". Hmph.

[Jeremy Ricci]But it isn't important, of course, because Sony is the leader of innovation, and rumble is an overrated feature that no-one will miss. Motion sensing is the future, except in Nintendo's case.[/Jeremy Ricci]

 

[Solid Lifters]

I don't mind the disappearance of the rumble feature. I liked it for the first year, then shut it off. I never use it, anymore. The only games it was good for were Metal Gear Solid and Gran Turismo (the series). That's it, really.

I don't think I'll activate Sixaxis, for that matter. However, I don't think I'll mind using it for say, a particular sequence in a video game. But, I would hate to be forced to use it though out the game, though.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

[Jeremy Ricci][/Jeremy Ricci]

I don't mind the disappearance of the rumble feature. I liked it for the first year, then shut it off. I never use it, anymore. The only games it was good for were Metal Gear Solid and Gran Turismo (the series). That's it, really.

Exactly how I feel as well. Frankly, I got bored of the rumble novelty a long time ago so I won't be shedding any tears for its demise from Sony controllers. It will be interesting though to see if developers continue to program for rumble contollers for those buying 3rd party controllers that might include it.

 

[Jedi2016]

I've gotten so used to rumble that it will probably be odd to play games that don't have it. I've used it heavily ever since the N64.

 

[Poverty]

I always turned it off on most games as it could get annoying, so I wont really miss it. Like people have said, novelty wore off a long time ago.

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

Solid, DIgital Nitrate, I agree, while it was neat to have, it really didn't add much to my experience, certainly not as much as the shift from Stereo to Digital 5.1 did. Sure, it gave me a little feedback, but it only let me know "oh you've been shot" etc. PC games don't have any kind of rumble at all, since most are played via Keyboard, but you don't see PC gamers up in arms....funny how that works.

Tornado - It's good to see GTP reaches out to such a young audience.

 

[slackbladder]

I never use the vibration on my 360 controllers, mainly to keep battery life but also because I've not played a game that needs it. Too often it's just there as a reminder you've been shot, as stated above.
I did use it a lot with GT4 and a few games like MGS and Silent Hill used the rumble more intelligently. But I won't miss is.
But I don't see rumble as a feature of third party controllers as I'm unsure if game developers will even have the feature in their games. I think rumble is gone from the PS3 for good (well, probably).
But at least you can buy third party controllers for the PS3. As far as I know Microsoft have not given third party's their wireless protocol software so no one else can make wireless 360 controllers. That's why the Guitar controller for GH2 will be wired on the 360.

 

[Tornado]

PC games don't have any kind of rumble at all, since most are played via Keyboard, but you don't see PC gamers up in arms....funny how that works.

Pretty much every PC game on the market has force feedback support. And they aren't up in arms because it was never a standard feature unless you had a controller that supported it. Which is actually rather common.

Tornado - It's good to see GTP reaches out to such a young audience.

Even better to know that the younger audience can so successfully typecast certain members of the older audience.

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

Pretty much every PC game on the market has force feedback support. And they aren't up in arms because it was never a standard feature unless you had a controller that supported it. Which is actually rather common.

You show me a person with a controller that can map all the commands from any MMO, RTS, or modern FPS, and I'll greatfully take back my statements.

As for your other comments, I'm not going to be lured by your immaturity, and you've been reported. If you want a flame war or a fight, pick it somewhere else, you won't find it here with your snyde comments and mockery.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

I did use it a lot with GT4 and a few games like MGS and Silent Hill used the rumble more intelligently. But I won't miss is.

I forgot about those games... and also the 007 games... I remember that the vibration feedback on those games was very effective and added a lot to the gameplay!

Silent Hill in particular used the vibration feedback beautifully, as sneak attacks from behind in the dark take on a whole new meaning when you are startled by the vibration.... that game was quite spooky the first time around... and the vibrations played an important role.

I may have to rethink how important a rumble controller is after all.

It certainly isn't even close to being a deal breaker... but I may seek 3rd party controllers if the games I want have it, and the controllers have a rumbler. More things to think about while I wait... lol

 

[Tornado]

You show me a person with a controller that can map all the commands from any MMO, RTS, or modern FPS, and I'll greatfully take back my statements.

That's your only criteria? Okay. This person owns this controller:

1. Can it play modern FPS'? Well, yes. Quite well in fact. As good as a mouse and keyboard? No but what controller is?
2. Can it play MMO's? Yes, quite easily as well.
3. Can it play modern RTS's? This one made me think. Yes, it can play a modern RTS. But why would you want to? Also, how is that relavent anyways? I've never played an RTS with rumble support, on any system.

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

That's your only criteria? Okay. This person owns this controller:

1. Can it play modern FPS'? Well, yes. Quite well in fact. As good as a mouse and keyboard? No but what controller is?
2. Can it play MMO's? Yes, quite easily as well.
3. Can it play modern RTS's? This one made me think. Yes, it can play a modern RTS. But why would you want to? Also, how is that relavent anyways? I've never played an RTS with rumble support, on any system.

I hate to call BS on you, but B mofo'n S.

There is no way on the face of the planet you can map all of your MMO or RTS commands to that controller, at all, unless you're doing insane amounts of combination configs, which is stupid.

Even for an FPS, you've got things like jump, crouch, flashlight, strafe, move, look, shoot, alternate fire, weapon switch up/down, action button...that's like 12 commands, and that's just for basic FPS titles, then you've got titles like PREY where there are even more commands. I'm sorry, but I just don't see it being "successfully" possible.

Given that, again, no one uses controllers for these games, no one complains that they can't use rumble for these games, and you all *only* complain because you think it's cool right now to be on the anti-sony bandwagon.

Fact is, if Nintendo and MS both dropped rumble, no one would care. But, if they never had it, no one would care either.

 

[Tornado]

There is no way on the face of the planet you can map all of your MMO or RTS commands to that controller, at all, unless you're doing insane amounts of combination configs, which is stupid.

You see the button under the controller's logo? Makes button mapping (which I don't use on my keyboard either) unnecessary.

Even for an FPS, you've got things like jump, crouch, flashlight, strafe, move, look, shoot, alternate fire, weapon switch up/down, action button...that's like 12 commands, and that's just for basic FPS titles, then you've got titles like PREY where there are even more commands. I'm sorry, but I just don't see it being "successfully" possible.

12 commands, eh? Very convenient, because if you turn analog on you have 16 buttons. Strafe and move? Left analog stick. Look? Right analog stick. Jump? 5. Crouch? 7. Fire? 6. Alt fire? 8. Flashlight? R3. Weapon switch? D-pad up/down. I played through many FPS's with this controller, including Doom III and Half-Life II. And Red Faction is also pretty complex, and I just played through that by mapping the buttons exactly like they were in the PS2 version.

Given that, again, no one uses controllers for these games, no one complains that they can't use rumble for these games,

Which kind of invalidates your original point that the PS3 Six Axis can be parallel to the situation about PC games not using it, because not using a controller on PC's directly parallels someone not using a Dual Shock on the original Playstation. They didn't use rumble because the controller they had doesn't allow it. But they could get a controller to do so, and the games supported it.
It's completely different from not being able to get a controller that supported it because it isn't supported regardless, which is the PS3's case.
​

and you all *only* complain because you think it's cool right now to be on the anti-sony bandwagon.

Which is obviously why I intend to have one by the end of the year. And why I've been praising it over the 360. And why I have been saying it was a good value. The only thing I'm truly against is the controller, and even then its only the lack of rumble; as I've admitted the shape problems were blown out of proportion by IGN.