The Custom Races are now the best part of Single Player

[Voodoovaj]

This thread is a call for the single player fans to REALLY try custom races rather than grinding the pre-made events.

With the latest update, the change to the AI is significant. Yes, there is a dedicated Custom Race thread, but I believe it gets largely ignored by the masses. I'm bring this up because, for DECADES, racing the AI has been a largely painful experience. But, now, it's a truly enjoyable experience that largely delivers on what we have wanted from this franchise. Sophy is generally the better of the two, but this latest update makes regular AI leaps and bounds better. The regular AI supports all cars, and all tracks, and all weather types (where available).

First up - the key ingredient - Set Boost to "Weak" - If you don't, it's a little easier to race the AI. With the boost on, it's lots of fun.

YES, you have to buy all the cars to make a grid, but what else are you using the credits for? Yes, the payouts are less than grinding, but the racing is also more interesting. You can replicate any of the single player events. Custom races support lapping events, or timed events, so for those who want a 24hr experience, there's really no excuse now other than your own effort.

Here's some of what I have.

A Mid 90s LMGT grid. To get the street cars to match the race cars, maximize street downforce and minimize the race cars downforce. Here, the F40 and the GTR are equal on power, but the F1 GTR has a grip advantage and the F40 has a top speed advantage.

Spoiler: 1992-1995 LM GT

The AI makes mistakes, and that makes it more real. In this race above, I took the lead when the two Harrod's GTRs came together in the braking zone. I ended up second after I gave up the lead to the Toyotas because of a late mistake.

I've been talking up how Gran Turismo is (no word of a lie) the BEST Formula 1 game of the 90's. I've made a grid for every year from 1990-2000, as well as a 2003 grid and I used the F3500 to replicate a 2026 grid. But compare the graphics of this, to the Psygnosis F1 game from 1995. Aside from the graphics, this plays so much better.

Spoiler: 1992 F1 in Gran Turismo

Spoiler: Psygnosis F1 1995

The game gives you all the tools necessary to create pretty much whatever you want. Yes, it would be nice to have a built in custom championship, but many of us track championships manually and it's not that bad (I have a tool on my GitHub). I feel it needs a mention outside of the Custom Race thread because I am constantly seeing post asking for events or fixes you already have the power to take care of yourself, and tailor it specifically to what YOU want.

For instance, Aussie Touring Cars

Spoiler: Aussie Touring Cars

The only excuse people have is laziness at this point. And, given the impact of this particular update, I think what's happening with custom races is a foreshadowing of what is coming for GT8. Expect GT8 to rely more heavily on user generated content for the single player experience.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Also, here's a video of multi-class racing with the regular AI. I chose regular here because the Porsche GT3R is not compatible with Sophy at this track. Still, it worked well (only a 10 minute video). You can see the mistakes some of the cars make, I even forced a mistake at the beginning of lap 8.



Swap the Hypercars for Group 2 cars, and you have JGTC

 

[bigfax]

They been the best.

I started a new campaign and after completing the cafe racer, each one, I've made a Sophy version of say, Japanese FF 450, with the same settings and tracks (when possible) unfortunately Sophy still isn't on every track or layout. And now I'm collecting cars to have those races fulfilled.

It's also fantastic for testing cars. I've been in love with the 83 Golf GTI these days, and hD a duel vs Abarth 500, my car is somewhT tuned. Still the Sophy boost weak Abarth is murdering me

 

[Voodoovaj]

Still the Sophy boost weak Abarth is murdering me

Sophy boost weak Abarth race at 600pp is the best racing in the game IMHO

 

[PlanetJanet]

It's definitely the best way to race the AI, and better than the regular events, but ultimately Custom Races just make me sad. Sad for what they could have been and sad knowing that PD will never make the most of the opportunity in front of them.

You can extoll the virtues of the mode all you like but whenever I spend time with it, I am left with the feeling that it is half-arsed, and I have to suspend all my disbelief in order to enjoy it. You can't make championships, you can't make any grid you like without a stupid amount of credits, the boost settings make no sense, you can't do long races with strategy, Sophy can't race half the tracks, Reggie is fine until you pass him and then he disappears, rubber banding is still very much there even if you can disguise it, you can't tweak the performance of individual drivers to add some personality, the difficulty modes don't work, and the whole mode is tucked deep within the menus as if it's an after thought.

It's so close to being absolutely incredible but it just isn't, and I doubt it ever will be. Sad.

 

[Voodoovaj]

There's a lot here to unpack, some valid, and some not.

It's definitely the best way to race the AI, and better than the regular events, but ultimately Custom Races just make me sad. Sad for what they could have been and sad knowing that PD will never make the most of the opportunity in front of them.

The mode is the opportunity. The opportunity is your, not theirs. So, let's settle that first

You can extoll the virtues of the mode all you like but whenever I spend time with it, I am left with the feeling that it is half-arsed, and I have to suspend all my disbelief in order to enjoy it. You can't make championships

Kind of. I have a tool on my github (link in signature). Make a grid, and track it. It's not that hard. It would be nice if there were a tool in the game, yes, but it's far from needing to "suspend all disbelief". I'm assuming you haven't tried the updates.

you can't make any grid you like without a stupid amount of credits

What do people think the credits are for? No really, I am curious. They can't be exchanged for anything other than the cars. Money is a means of transacting. You earn credits for playing. What do YOU do with them?

I buy the cars I need to make a grid. In fact, it's the only thing that gives any of the cars value.

, the boost settings make no sense

Yes and no. The boost makes perfect sense, but you don't see it as easily with most of the cars.

The weak boost keeps everyone together and it does, in fact, make YOU a little faster as well. Strong boost makes you faster still. It's a quirk of the weak boost that it also makes the races more fun and competitive. Try the boost options with the Suzuki Carry and you'll see for yourself.

, you can't do long races with strategy

Kind of a fair point, but then again, what are you trying to achieve?

Like, I have a few setups with the fuel turned off. Why? Because I am playing to race and I see no value in trying to outsmart an AI that is not designed to outsmart me. So, for longer races (when I want them) I leave it to tire usage alone. Then, the pressure is me to not burn up the tires and I also remove the variation for fuel mileage.

Everyone get hung up on fuel usage as strategy, but tire strategy is the key.

, Sophy can't race half the tracks

Again, you haven't tried the update. Most of the cars are available on most of the tracks. There is both more available cars for the Sophy tracks, and the cars themselves have expanded their available tracks.

, Reggie is fine until you pass him and then he disappears

Again, you haven't tried it. This is somewhat true of the back markers and not true of the front of the field.

rubber banding is still very much there even if you can disguise it

I know this bugs some people. I don't care about it, because I don't view the AI as another person. The AI exists to race me. That said, the rubber band is diminished in this update.

I'll say this, when the AI is running away from you and you're doing your absolute best to try and catch it, you'll be praying for the rubber band to kick in.

, you can't tweak the performance of individual drivers to add some personality

This is another fundamental misunderstanding of what the AI is. The AI just drives the car. You don't tweak the AI, you tweak the car. This is why the people who try to have perfect balance among the cars tend to be disappointed. For instance, the stock one make racing is the most boring because the cars are all the same.

Don't try to balance the cars, and watch what happens.

, the difficulty modes don't work

Yes they do, but people misunderstand them.

The difficulty mode is only for automatic grids. The bug is that they leave it available for all modes. What the difficulty adjustment does is choose faster cars for those automatic grids. This is a reiteration of my point above. The AI is just 1 AI. It's the cars that change.

They hide this by scaling the pace of the AI from first (fastest) to last (slowest) and as cars swap places, the AI pace changes.

, and the whole mode is tucked deep within the menus as if it's an after thought.

It's literally on the first page of the track along with the events and the time trials.

It's so close to being absolutely incredible but it just isn't, and I doubt it ever will be. Sad.

And this is why I made this original post. Many people have created an opinion about the mode, and they haven't legitimately tried it. Then, those same people will go complain about something the game "doesn't have", even those is absolutely does if you bothered to try it.

Again, this 1.71 update changes custom racing an enormous extent.

 

[PlanetJanet]

I'm afraid you're making an absurd number of assumptions about how much I have played and experimented with the mode. I have played it a lot, I know everything that you are trying to "teach" me, my opinion is fully formed and based on my actual experience, it is not something that you can claim is "invalid" or explain away with your own opinion, sorry.

I won't respond to each point because you're welcome to your own opinion, I simply wanted to provide a counter opinion; you will not convince me that Custom Races are anything other than a massive missed opportunity.

I will respond to a couple of points: credits. I have every car in the game and multiple of many Legends, I generally don't complain about the economy in the game, because I think it is fine. However, I still don't have nearly enough credits to build a grid of 50s F1 cars. Missed opportunity.

Rubberbanding: "I don't care about it". Good for you. For me, it makes the whole thing feel fake. And no, when the AI is leaving me for dead, I am not wishing for rubberbanding, that's utter nonsense.

In the end, I find my fun in GT7 elsewhere and love the game. I race with my friends in lobbies and spend my single player time building and painting cars for these lobbies. I'm happy that you get so much joy from Custom Races, but as much as I have tried, I simply can't agree that it's an amazing singleplayer experience. It's good, and it's so close to being amazing, and yet all the small problems prevent it from becoming what it should be. This has nothing to do with me, and everything to do with PD.

 

[suomi1]

I'm afraid you're making an absurd number of assumptions about how much I have played and experimented with the mode. I have played it a lot, I know everything that you are trying to "teach" me, my opinion is fully formed and based on my actual experience, it is not something that you can claim is "invalid" or explain away with your own opinion, sorry.

I won't respond to each point because you're welcome to your own opinion, I simply wanted to provide a counter opinion; you will not convince me that Custom Races are anything other than a massive missed opportunity.

I will respond to a couple of points: credits. I have every car in the game and multiple of many Legends, I generally don't complain about the economy in the game, because I think it is fine. However, I still don't have nearly enough credits to build a grid of 50s F1 cars. Missed opportunity.

Rubberbanding: "I don't care about it". Good for you. For me, it makes the whole thing feel fake. And no, when the AI is leaving me for dead, I am not wishing for rubberbanding, that's utter nonsense.

In the end, I find my fun in GT7 elsewhere and love the game. I race with my friends in lobbies and spend my single player time building and painting cars for these lobbies. I'm happy that you get so much joy from Custom Races, but as much as I have tried, I simply can't agree that it's an amazing singleplayer experience. It's good, and it's so close to being amazing, and yet all the small problems prevent it from becoming what it should be. This has nothing to do with me, and everything to do with PD.

It's hard to admit, but you're right. I’ve spent countless hours creating races in this game mode, and it’s hard to drive while turning a blind eye to everything that’s wrong with it. You can use a few tricks here and there to give them a semblance of credibility, but the illusion is easily shattered once you know what the flaws are.

Half-arsed indeed, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was done on purpose.

Raising the necessary funds and then fine-tuning the cars to perfection to pull off the ideal race takes an enormous amount of time. For results that are sometimes very interesting, but which require turning a blind eye to things that pull you out of the experience. So, I’ve essentially made that effort worthwhile by sharing it with other players to save them from that awful time sink; though, a wild update can drop at any moment and consign all that painstaking work to the trash. Guess what happened recently, lol.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Half-arsed indeed, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was done on purpose.

Custom races, obviously, are built from the system for single player. Single player is built to be a limited experience. Personally, I don't know how people endure playing a single race for longer than an hour, and even an hour is stretch for me (and most).

But, I called the thread...

The Custom Races are now the best part of Single Player​

So, the comparison I am drawing is against the events that are built in. For instance, the people that grind the Tokyo 600 race. Why? To earn credits to then do....what?

That's my point. We can make a 12 lap Tokyo race with rain, at night, that is a much more exciting event than what they gave us.

 

[suomi1]

Custom races, obviously, are built from the system for single player. Single player is built to be a limited experience. Personally, I don't know how people endure playing a single race for longer than an hour, and even an hour is stretch for me (and most).

It's not like if the majority of players was enduring it for hours out of pure pleasure.

But, I called the thread...

The Custom Races are now the best part of Single Player​

Yes, indeed. My bad. But why now exactly ? Admittedly, Sophy can now drive almost all the recently added cars, but apart from that nothing revolutionary has been added compared to previous updates imo.

So, the comparison I am drawing is against the events that are built in. For instance, the people that grind the Tokyo 600 race. Why? To earn credits to then do....what?

To do decent custom races.....
For instance, for my 1950s car lineup, I still have to buy: two Mercedes 300 SLs (W194), three 1955 Porsche 550 Spyder, and one 1956 Porsche 356 A Speedster. I need more than 50 million credits to that end.

 

[Aedum]

Can get all the cars you want for custom races with Daytona AFK. Takes time, but easy and free run while you do other RL tasks.

 

[Voodoovaj]

It's not like if the majority of players was enduring it for hours out of pure pleasure.

Well that's the point. The single player system breaks down over longer races. I know some want to do real length races, but IMHO, it stretches the systems.

Yes, indeed. My bad. But why now exactly ? Admittedly, Sophy can now drive almost all the recently added cars, but apart from that nothing revolutionary has been added compared to previous updates imo.

The normal single player is set up for the masses and it doesn't have the difficulty options that the custom races have (the boost). All they have is the chili, and as I've mentioned, that just picks higher PP cars for competition. It doesn't make the AI more difficult.

You are correct on the Sophy front. The biggest change there is the addition of cars. However, Reggie has been improved significantly, especially in the braking zones.

Those two changes alone make the custom race the better option for a single player experience. Add to that, the obvious advantage that you can tailor it to your specific preferences and skill level.

To do decent custom races.....
For instance, for my 1950s car lineup, I still have to buy: two Mercedes 300 SLs (W194), three 1955 Porsche 550 Spyder, and one 1956 Porsche 356 A Speedster. I need more than 50 million credits to that end.

True, but this is my question to those who have 100 million credits and wonder what else there is to do in the game. Chasing credits to make a car line up is now the goal of the game. You build the credits, you hunt for the cars, and you craft an experience. It gives the game purpose. Why not go after a 1950's sports car set up? Who cares how much effort it takes? Before, it wasn't worth it because it would have been super boring. Now, it's actually enjoyable.

Edit - Sorry that my typing was horrible

 

[nickf1gr]

Generally there are better rewards in custοm races compairing with PD created events.
If they will add qualification in custom races and 24hrs cycle in some tracks like Spa or Dragons Trail it will become the top feature of the game!!!!

 

[Alfa Romeo GT]

I think I fall somewhere between the two of you on this topic.

I love custom races and it’s definitely my favorite single-player game mode.


You can do exactly what you want, things you won’t find anywhere else and with the latest updates (especially Reggie, who brakes better, and Sophy, who has more cars), it’s really fun.


Voodoo is right about this: once you’ve spent time setting up your grids, you realize that a lot of the default events are so bad.
It’s unbelievable that PD doesn’t take better advantage of the weather options and the day-night cycle… or turn on damage.


However, I also completely understand Suomi’s frustration.
Rubber banding… damn, it completely pulls me out of the immersion. Even with boost on, even when fiddling with the settings, as soon as you take the lead or get left behind, you can feel it kicking in.


Top speeds that suddenly become impossible (a STOCK ’15 Clio R.S. 220 Trophy that can hit 260 km/h on Trial Mountain… STOCK, normally that would trigger something weird) or, conversely, that plummet—it’s just not believable. And no, I’m not praying for it to kick in when I’m falling behind—I’d much rather be beaten fair and square.


I don’t necessarily need the AI to behave exactly like another human player, but I want the race to feel like the result of consistent performance.

If an AI-controlled car is faster, it should pull ahead. If I make a mistake, I should lose time. If I’m actually faster, I should be able to widen the gap. That’s what makes a race believable to me.

 

[Pie O My]

It's definitely the best way to race the AI, and better than the regular events, but ultimately Custom Races just make me sad. Sad for what they could have been and sad knowing that PD will never make the most of the opportunity in front of them.

You can extoll the virtues of the mode all you like but whenever I spend time with it, I am left with the feeling that it is half-arsed, and I have to suspend all my disbelief in order to enjoy it. You can't make championships, you can't make any grid you like without a stupid amount of credits, the boost settings make no sense, you can't do long races with strategy, Sophy can't race half the tracks, Reggie is fine until you pass him and then he disappears, rubber banding is still very much there even if you can disguise it, you can't tweak the performance of individual drivers to add some personality, the difficulty modes don't work, and the whole mode is tucked deep within the menus as if it's an after thought.

It's so close to being absolutely incredible but it just isn't, and I doubt it ever will be. Sad.

They are like the opposite of a great chef: they've done the hard work of sourcing great ingredients but messed up the execution.

Imagine if they focussed on what would make a great single player experience....

• An actual Race Engineer that you heard and felt a connection with (I still remember Project Cars for this, and the end of race messages from the Scot in TOCA 3)
• Races and championships that took the best parts of custom races and went further with themes and strategies
• The ability to share custom races
• Development on making the racing realistic. The AI improvements show they have the potential for this - they don't have to lean back on rubber banding in 2026....

I understand it's hard to create a game that hits all the spots - inevitably you're going to have weaknesses somewhere. I loved TOCA 3 for the online lobbies but the physics were rudimentary. Forza 2 was actually a very good all-rounder. Project Cars 1 and 2 had brilliant moments but was built on shaky foundations. Actual sim racing is probably "absolute cinema"....but the barrier to entry is so high.

If PD could take a step back and look at what they have in GT7 and work on the things that have potential they could have an even bigger hit with GT8.

I don’t necessarily need the AI to behave exactly like another human player, but I want the race to feel like the result of consistent performance.

If an AI-controlled car is faster, it should pull ahead. If I make a mistake, I should lose time. If I’m actually faster, I should be able to widen the gap. That’s what makes a race believable to me.

Lots of this chimes with the pushback against the "racing" in F1 this season.

 

[05XR8]

I've always agreed it's PDs bad execution. The Power Pack are PD staking a step back and actually giving the players what they want. They've given us the DTM events, Group C events, qualifying, GT SOPHY that races in all types of weather conditions and GT SOPHY utilising just about the whole car list.

Looking like the next game may be far off. GT7 could be that bigger hit right now.

 

[PlanetJanet]

I don’t necessarily need the AI to behave exactly like another human player, but I want the race to feel like the result of consistent performance.

If an AI-controlled car is faster, it should pull ahead. If I make a mistake, I should lose time. If I’m actually faster, I should be able to widen the gap. That’s what makes a race believable to me.

Very nicely articulated, I couldn't agree more.

 

[GeminiRacing]

I also believe the Custom Race feature could be expanded way beyond where it currently is.

I quickly sought refuge in this feature when I realised how utterly frustrating some of the Daily Race Lobbies ended up being. From nowhere I was climbing up the C DR, only to end up on the unfortunate side of 'rammers' and had to start again from fairly low down on the D DR. I have recovered to halfway up the C DR but I am very selective in what online racing I now take part in.

Over the last year or so, I have created several different class grids in GT classes and Touring Car class. I am particularly proud of creating 2025 & 2026 BTCC grids, if only we had more British circuits. I have a mix of 'tuned' road cars and Gr.4 cars and tune each car to the assigned BTCC driver, ie, Sutton has a greater PP than Osborne even though they are (or should I say, the AI) are in the same car.

Up until the last update, the BTCC Custom Races were a lot of fun, racing was close, all cars finished on the same lap, ie, 15 laps of Brands Hatch GP layout, AI made very few mistakes but you could pressure the car in front into outbraking itself on occasion. Rubberbanding seemed very minimal and the replays looked excellent. With game play set to hard and opponents set to Professional, I set my car to around 15PP lower than the 'worst' car on the grid, to make it a challenge to overtake.

However, the latest update and change in physics has rendered my current set-ups as useless. I have re-tuned a few cars but AI seems to make way more mistakes and the grid is now really spread out. I am sure I can get back to where I was with a bit more tweaking but that is a big frustration currently.

I would welcome to be able to create Custom Championships and also the option to have a full race weekend with practice and qualifying. Here's hoping PD are listening, as I am sure these features could easily be written into the game. Those hardcore online racers would still be all over Sport Mode, so PD shouldn't be concerned with a drop in online players.

That's my twopeneth...

 

[Voodoovaj]

Top speeds that suddenly become impossible (a STOCK ’15 Clio R.S. 220 Trophy that can hit 260 km/h on Trial Mountain… STOCK, normally that would trigger something weird) or, conversely, that plummet—it’s just not believable. And no, I’m not praying for it to kick in when I’m falling behind—I’d much rather be beaten fair and square.

Yes, granted, this is a horrible side effect of the boost and, maybe, if we complain enough, this will be corrected. We all want closer racing, but not to this extent.

I don’t necessarily need the AI to behave exactly like another human player, but I want the race to feel like the result of consistent performance.

If an AI-controlled car is faster, it should pull ahead. If I make a mistake, I should lose time. If I’m actually faster, I should be able to widen the gap. That’s what makes a race believable to me.

Coincidentally, I was coming here to discuss this very thing. So, last night, I went back to Sport Mode for the first time since January of this year. I wanted to see how being away has affected me. I won out of the box .

But what's important are the time differences.

Here's the qualifying difference between the top drivers for Race A and my time.

Spoiler: Top Drivers

Spoiler: My Qualifying Time

2.5 to 3 seconds in a CIVIC!!! Over a single lap!

In the race, I won by nearly 2 seconds over the 3 laps, and I started 4th. (I only did the one race)

Spoiler: Race Results

This would say that we don't necessarily need to have boost on. Instead, players can tweak car performance to emulate better, or worse drivers. Rather than letting the game boost the AI cars, we can take control and give them as much boost as we'd like. Yes, it's some added work, and not always necessary, but if we want the "AI to behave exactly like another human player" we can define for ourselves what that means.

For me, another human player (according to my Sport Mode experience) is up to 3 seconds a lap faster than I am! This is why I've stopped trying to heavily balance cars in custom races. I set them up and then tweak as necessary. It is possible to emulate Sport Mode level of competition.

 

[PlanetJanet]

This would say that we don't necessarily need to have boost on. Instead, players can tweak car performance to emulate better, or worse drivers. Rather than letting the game boost the AI cars, we can take control and give them as much boost as we'd like. Yes, it's some added work, and not always necessary, but if we want the "AI to behave exactly like another human player" we can define for ourselves what that means.

Precisely!! It doesn't work properly at the moment because the rubberbanding is even worse with boost off than it is with boost weak, but all PD needs to do is provide a genuine option to completely turn off rubberbanding and Custom Races are suddenly a totally different proposition - still with problems, but far more compelling, at least in my humble opinion.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Precisely!! It doesn't work properly at the moment because the rubberbanding is even worse with boost off than it is with boost weak, but all PD needs to do is provide a genuine option to completely turn off rubberbanding and Custom Races are suddenly a totally different proposition - still with problems, but far more compelling, at least in my humble opinion.

Well, I did another Sport Mode race A and I was reminded why I stopped participating in Sport Mode. I will take the AI and the rubber banding ALL DAY LONG over the kids that play online with "420" somewhere in their tag.

No really, I have set higher degrees of penalties in custom races than PD sets from Sport Mode 😒