The Final Blow: The End of Saab

[Tornado]

Cadillac BLS a flop in Europe?


General Motors had high hopes for its Cadillac BLS sedan, which went on sale this April in Europe only. But according to Sweden’s Göteborgs-Posten sales of the car have fallen far short of the projected 7,000 to 10,000 units per year. The car — which is built in Sweden alongside the Saab 9-3 — has sold just 400 units since sales began. What’s more, production has fallen to units daily. At that rate, GM would build less than 1,500 units annually. The Leftlane Perspective: Are Europeans simply taking their time to warm up to Cadillac? Will they ever? The BLS has received largely positive reviews in the region, but its seems brand snobbery may still be a major factor.

And with that, there will officially be no more true Saabs. The BLS was the brand's last chance to continue use of the Trollhotten plant, and was only to be kept open if the BLS met sales expectations. Therefore, with the unfortunate and unfair failure of the BLS, all Saabs will now revert to being simpy restyled Opels, being built in the [FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]Rüsselsheim plant starting in 2008.
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[Jay]

Very sad news.

Also looks a lot less likely Australia will get any Cadillac's now

 

[YSSMAN]

I wouldn't jump ahead that far that quickly, but it looks as though Saab may be in trouble.

But I have read before that GM was looking into producing several new Opels and Saabs in the Trollhotten plant, one of which being the 9-7X replacement that would be sold worldwide.

Its not that Saabs sales are bad folks, it's just that GM isn't using their facilities to full capacity. But with models like the 9-6X and Kappa-based Saab reportedly in the works, it isn't soon enough to call the game yet.

 

[JCE]

If GM lets Saab die I will hate them (GM) permanently. Saab is a well respected auto company in Europe--it would be in GM's interest to try again. The BLS was going to flop because it didn't get very good press overall.

I guess the Mavs loss just has me in a hateful mood.

 

[YSSMAN]

...Was the Shaq-Fu that the Heat employed too much for them, lol?

(I can't help that I'm a Pistons fan)

 

[JCE]

...Was the Shaq-Fu that the Heat employed too much for them, lol?

(I can't help that I'm a Pistons fan)

Screw Shaq...Stack OWNED the so-called "big daddy" by laying him out on the floor. That was the lone bright spot of my day.

Anyway on topic, since you seem to be a GM nut answer me this. What do YOU think GM will do with Saab?

 

[JohnBM01]

Nah, never really liked Saabs to begin with except for their handling. Not to say "I hope Saab gets buried 6 feet deep," but I've just never really been a Saab fan. I'm actually rather surprised that the BLS (maybe the nicest-looking Cadillac of the modern era) didn't do as well. I normally talk or think about how most of us Americans don't really like some machines like the Holden Monaro ported to America as the Pontiac GTO. I never really thought some Europeans would be this way with some American cars. Sad for the publicity (or lack thereof) for the BLS.

As for Saab, what does this loss do for GM and European autos? What's the impact?

 

[YSSMAN]

@JCE300GT:

Keep in mind that GM is in a transitional phase at the moment and no specific company is going to be dropped at any point. The only losses are going to be specific models here and there (more specifically at GMC, Buick, and Pontiac), but as for Saab, again, it is a transitional process.

I forsee GM making Saab more similar to how they used to be. A hint of spunky rebelion in each model topped off with great build quality and decent relyablity.

As noted before, the 9-7X will make way for a Lambada-based (read Saturn Outlook) crossover SUV as the GMT360 platform is pretty much dead in the eyes of SUV fans. The new "9-6X" would be a world-market vehicle meant to dominate the large crossover segment, and should be doing battle with the upcomming Audi Q5. Chances are, it would be one of the first North American GM products to recieve diesel power in decades, as I belive Saab and Saturn will both be used to re-introduce Saab to the masses in the US.

Secondly, the Aero-X concept pushed the boundaries forward so that a Kappa-based luxury sport coupe can be produced by the brand. Again, Saab would be looking to chase after the Audi TT and BMW Z4, and quite possibly could do so with a hardtop version and a turbocharged 2.8L V6 engine.

Saab isn't dead, as a matter of fact, I belive they are far from it. They are in transition once again, and GM is attempting to do their best with the company to not only hold onto die-hard Saab-o-philes, but to attempt to grab more of the entry-level luxury market from Audi and BMW.

...Keep in mind that Saab has been on the verge of collapse many times, so this is nothing new.

 

[Dave A]

The BLS was going to flop because it didn't get very good press overall.

I read one small article regarding the BLS titled "The Cadillac BullSh*t", honestly.

 

[Poverty]

Man what was GM thinking of course the BLS was gonna flop. Everyone was saying so as soon as we head it would just be a redressed SAAB, which is a redressed vauxhall. Serioulsy GM must be the dumbest company in the world, not only is the BLS on a platform thats good for what it is (wrong wheel drive) but they priced it so that it competes with the audi A4 etc and the audi beats the saab in everything, cabin space etc you name it, but the audi will hold its value while SAABs donts.

And those new 9-5's with those chrome spectacles are so damn ugly, I seriously dont know what GM is thinking, no one will want to drive those 9-5's its like when GM owned subaru and they came out with the bug eye, except its worse.

I mean seriously the BLS was basically just badge engineering.

 

[Ghost C]

Cadillac should've expected the BLS to flop. Look at the Catera - A rebadged sister car. Look at the Cimarron - Same. What happened to those? Floptastic.

Although to be fair, the BLS isn't a terrible car, it's just that Europeans snub their noses at Cadillac due to totally incorrect assumptions, and an auto press full of jackasses.

 

[vladimir]

if they want saab to have succes they should build saabs, not sell them as cadillacs. people don't buy american cars here...

 

[Scaff]

Although to be fair, the BLS isn't a terrible car, it's just that Europeans snub their noses at Cadillac due to totally incorrect assumptions, and an auto press full of jackasses.

Or you could actually look at it from the perspective of a European.

The last time Cadillac was in the European market they tried with the Seville STS, retailing at around £40k. Now it was the wrong car for the market, too big for our roads, too thirsty for our fuel prices. On top of that its price bracket put it against some of the best Germany had to offer at the time. It was too much money for people to take a risk with and it bombed (very much like big expensive French cars almost always do).

Now Cadillac relaunch themselves into Europe they face two types of consumers, those who can remember the Seville STS and want nothing to do with the brand as a result and those that know nothing about the brand at all (the relaunch has hardly been high profile and I work in the industry - the average punter would struggle to name a Caddy model).

The European motoring press has been mixed in regard to the entire range, some like them other don't. To say that all the reviews have been negative is quite simply wrong, and to brand all of the European motoring press as jackasses a touch insulting. In fact a quick look at the review section in the back of Autocar, Top Gear and Car magazines gave scores in the middle of range (with the exception of the XLS), hardly a biased dismissal. In fact the BLS scores on par with the volume cars of its size.

To have half a chance of getting established in the already full and competative European market (remember we lost MG Rover and the market still has more product than customers) will take time and determination.

I honestly think that Caddy can find the right customer base in Europe, just as Chrysler are doing.

Scaff

 

[YSSMAN]

So did they take the CTS out of the market when they introduced the BLS?

...I'd say the CTS was far better off than the BLS would have ever been. RWD performance, price that undercuts the compeition by a few grand, a wide selection of engines and transmissions, etc. The only thing the CTS was lacking was a diesel option, but I'm sure GM could have figured something out.

Quite frankly, I don't understand specifically why GM hopes to actually sell Cadillacs in Europe. They are built by Americans for Americans just a few miles from where I live, and they may as well stay here.

Europeans aren't going to like anything American, its just the way it is...

 

[donbenni]

They sell a car that's practically identical to the Saab 9-3 and then complain why it's not being bought? The BLS's biggest problem is the Saab 9-3. Choosing a "new" brand of car is a bit of a gamble and i'm sure most people would rather go with the brand they know rather than one they don't. I wouldn't call it brand snobbery, just brand security.

Europeans aren't going to like anything American, its just the way it is...

That's just ever so slightly generalistic isn't it?

 

[YSSMAN]

...Well, what American things sell well in Europe?

Coca Cola and All American Rejects CDs?

 

[Scaff]

So did they take the CTS out of the market when they introduced the BLS?

...I'd say the CTS was far better off than the BLS would have ever been. RWD performance, price that undercuts the compeition by a few grand, a wide selection of engines and transmissions, etc. The only thing the CTS was lacking was a diesel option, but I'm sure GM could have figured something out.

Quite frankly, I don't understand specifically why GM hopes to actually sell Cadillacs in Europe. They are built by Americans for Americans just a few miles from where I live, and they may as well stay here.

Europeans aren't going to like anything American, its just the way it is...

The European range is (or will be)

BLS
CTS
STS
XLR
SRX
Escalade


In regard to Europeans not liking anything American its not strictly true, as I mentioned before Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge continue to sell well. However Europe is a hard market to break into, its the worlds oldest and one of the most diverse.

To draw a parallel, how much work would be involved in bringing Renault (or any of the French manufacturers) back to the American market? How difficult would it be to convince customers that the cars are different to the last lot of rubbish that Renault sold in the States? I'm sure you would agree it would be a huge task, well thats what its like for an American brand to get a foothold back in Europe.

Regards

Scaff

Edited to cover

...Well, what American things sell well in Europe?

Coca Cola and All American Rejects CDs?

Almost every film at the box-office, a good half of the programmes on TV, fast food, Levi's, all the products in Ford and GMs European range (they are still American, thats the place the money ends up), Coke and Pepsi, and this list goes on.

We buy plenty from you and a large number of our kids buy the American culture on a daily basis.

 

[Poverty]

Although to be fair, the BLS isn't a terrible car, it's just that Europeans snub their noses at Cadillac due to totally incorrect assumptions, and an auto press full of jackasses.

I disagree, give me one reason why someone would buy the BLS other than the fact that its something different?

Its not really a caddilac is it and its not as if the 9-3 is selling alot of cars.

And the average youngster will think this:

Cadillac = Celebs = America = Most powerful country = Best Everything = Good car

Just look at British celebs (the cool young ones) they have american cars as theyre daily drivers.

Hell we even get EMO's over here these days.

 

[Tornado]

Although to be fair, the BLS isn't a terrible car, it's just that Europeans snub their noses at Cadillac due to totally incorrect assumptions, and an auto press full of jackasses.

But the BLS has been getting good praise from European magazines. I think it is just because it is no better than the 9-3 really, just different, and no one really cares about the 9-3. It is a more luxurious and comfortable car than the 9-3 (and Audi A4 and BMW 3-series) with much better build quality than American Cadillacs, but it also suffers from excessive torque steer and large amounts of body roll (which is something the 9-3 suffers far less of).

 

[Onikaze]

Hmmm, a Wrong Wheel Drive Caddy flopped...is anyone surprised by this?

In the land of affordable RWD luxury cars, the land of really nice interior/exterior WWD semi-luxury cars, a WWD Caddy probably wasn't the best idea.

I hate to cheer a GM failure, but anything to put more sting against pushing WWD cars is good to me.

 

[JCE]

The CTS and SRX are the best Cadillac have to offer at the moment...perhaps GM could take a kick in the wallet and offer these CHEAPER than the rediculous price currently offered over in Europe. If they get their foot in the door now and turn some opinions around they can slowly get a little market share and introduce some new models and make a profit. You need to spend money to make money in my opinion.

 

[harrytuttle]

I think what a lot of people are missing is what it's like to actually drive the car. The BLS is not in the same market segment as the CTS/CTS-V, XLR, or Escalade. It's much more mainstream, like an Audi 2.0T, which most reviewers have referenced it against: mid-range luxury, mid-size 4-door.

The competition in Europe in that segement is staggering: Mercedes, BMW, and Audi (and that's just Germany) have great cars in that class that are much more fun to drive. Especially BMW. The drive seems to be the key difference in the reviews I've read. Not the interior, not the looks, and not even the fuel economy. Having driven new BMWs and Cadillacs within the last few years, I would agree with them, despite being no less than 5,000 miles from the nearest BLS.

Cadillac is still recovering from 20+ years of, well, cruddy cars. They've come a long way, but if they want to get back to the "good old days" of the 1950's (or, hopefully, the 1930's), then they still have a long way to go.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Every time I go past the Corvette and Cadillac dealer I always see the number of BLSs growing. And everytime I think how they're blocking my chance to oggle at the corvette.

Just to re-inforce what a few people have already said: -

Cadillac's have had decent reviews. They haven't been geat but they haven't been nearly as damaging as the JC comment on the back of the Chrysler Crossfire.

Publicity has not been as hyped as made out. Yes there's a few billboard campaigns, but few people pay attention to them. It's TV ads that you need. Audi has it's new Q7 ad that definetly sticks in your head. What does the BLS have?

Although to be fair, the BLS isn't a terrible car, it's just that Europeans snub their noses at Cadillac due to totally incorrect assumptions, and an auto press full of jackasses.

For many years whenever an American company has tried to sell an American car over here they've made no changes to it at all. No suspension changes, no engine changes. That's the origin of the stigma.

However, the BLS is adapted for the Euromarket, except now it's just 'some new American car'. It has absolutely no chance of drawing the loyal Audi and BMW customers unless their just looking 'for something different'.

 

[Ghost C]

...Snip...

Cadillac is still recovering from 20+ years of, well, cruddy cars. They've come a long way, but if they want to get back to the "good old days" of the 1950's (or, hopefully, the 1930's), then they still have a long way to go.

^Typical European attitude. (Note: I don't care if this guy is, in fact, European, but this is the attitude of Europeans in general, and for that matter, people who like BMW's and MB's and live in the US.)

What, exactly, was cruddy about every Cadillac made in the past 20 years? Aside from the Cimarron. And the V8-6-4 is out, it's more than 20 years old. If you say "WELL UHH THEY WERE FWD!!!!111ONEONE111", your opinion is null and void.

 

[Poverty]

Im sorry but the likes of the escalade and xlr-v all dont make a convincing argument to buy a caddilac mainly on the handling department. And the engines are gas guzzlers also, hence why europeans dont want them.

 

[Ghost C]

I have no problem with Europeans not wanting huge V8's that Cadillac likes to put in their vehicles. In fact, I think that may be the best reason I've ever heard for anyone not liking a Cadillac on an internet forum.

I take great personal offense to anyone calling every Cadillac made in the past 20 years a pile of dog crap, however, because most of them are twelve year olds who don't know anything about cars and just go by whatever trend is popular this week. It just so happens that bashing Cadillacs is a trend that never goes away, because when you're the best*, everyone wants to talk smack.

*Standard Of The World. There's no disclaimer here, if you have a problem with my opinion, bite me

 

[Poverty]

Mercedes > Cadillac

Caddy still needs to work on theyre handling and interior.

 

[ExigeEvan]

It just so happens that bashing Cadillacs is a trend that never goes away, because when you're the best*, everyone wants to talk smack.

*Standard Of The World. There's no disclaimer here, if you have a problem with my opinion, bite me

*puts in his Grille*

 

[YSSMAN]

Im sorry but the likes of the escalade and xlr-v all dont make a convincing argument to buy a caddilac mainly on the handling department. And the engines are gas guzzlers also, hence why europeans dont want them.

Since when were Cadillac gas guzzlers in comparison to BMWs and Mercedes-Benzes? I belive in almost every American automotive test in which a comparison was done between a German marque and a Cadillac, nearly every time the Cadillac recieved better gas mileage figures than their counterparts.

...So are you complaining about an Escalade then? You do realise that it is a full-size SUV, correct? Added to that, how can you seriosuly complain about handeling in a full-size SUV as well?

As for the XLR and XLR-V, Americans really don't care if you don't like them, as for the most part, they are selling well in the US. Quite frankly, thats all that matters.

I could argue with anti-GM folks all day about why their products are still relevant, and still something to consider in their persuit for a new car. Of course, the American perspective on American cars is that of a "stupid barbarian" that wouldn't understand the utter sophistication of an English Bloke, but thats just the way things are!

And to think the British couldn't figure out why Americans wanted to break away 230 years ago!

 

[Tornado]

As for the XLR and XLR-V, Americans really don't care if you don't like them, as for the most part, they are selling well in the US. Quite frankly, thats all that matters.

Poverty is right though. While the XLR by itself is a nice car, the V version is a useless preposition; being slower, less powerful and less refined than it's arch rival the SL55, and it isn't enough of a cost difference to make up for it. It is well balanced, but it isn't set to handle well enough to matter.

^Typical European attitude. (Note: I don't care if this guy is, in fact, European, but this is the attitude of Europeans in general, and for that matter, people who like BMW's and MB's and live in the US.)

You complain about his completely relevant point about Cadillac as being European bias, yet you counter it with shallow patriotism? There were some notable Cadillacs in the 90's, such as the Seville and Eldorado. But many of the Cadillacs of the 80's on to 2001 were unrefined, overengineered land yatchs filled with too-advanced for the era electronics. There were serious quality control and refinement problems during the time period in all of the cars. For example, there as the 4100 aluminum V8, which proved to be as reliable as an Ex-con until about '87. That engine alone probably destroyed brand image for every year they offered it. Yes, his saying that all Cadillacs at the time were cruddy was a little extreme, but it was not simply BMW loving. He had legitimate reasons for saying so.