The Future of Joe Biden

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United States
Elizabeth, New Jersey, USA
I am sure we're all aware that the state of Joe Biden's presidency is not very good right now, for factors which he can and cannot control. With every day that passes, Biden's presidency seems to be in an even worse state of peril. His approval rating is plummeting, the headlines about him are growing more negative, less and less people want to see him run again, and even many democrats, especially young democrats, no longer support or trust him. I am making this thread beacuse I feel that serious, thoughtful discussion about Biden is all but absent. We have constantly pointed out how extreme and dangerous the GOP and modern conservatism has become, and rightfully so, but I do not think there is enough discourse about how the Biden administration is acting, the overall state of his presidency, and what can best be done about it, which seems equally as important.

It is clear that Democrats are in for a rude awakening in the 2022 midterms and possibly 2024, and a good deal of this is caused by the Biden administration's legislative failings and perceived lack of leadership. A big chunk of Biden's policy agenda- and let's be honest, a moderate and practical one at that- has failed. Build Back Better, voting rights, the PRO Act, exceptions to the filibuster, a $15 minimum wage, climate change initiatives, and even mild healthcare reforms, did not succeed. Although Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema are obvious culprits, it can reasonably be argued Biden's lack of fortitude and savviness in persuading them is also to blame. The more progressive/left wing base like myself were always skeptical of Joe Biden's policy agenda and ability to effectively govern, but most of the Democratic base, in spite of these failures, had faith in Biden. Though, much of this changed once Roe v. Wade had been overturned. The Biden administration has made no efforts to secure fundamental womens' rights, other than the largely symbolic EO 14076, nor did it do so before it being overturned, which had been impending since the death of RBG. Although this has caused Democrats' prospects of winning in 2022 and 2024 to improve, it has only worsened Biden's approval rating, as even mainstream Democrats are losing faith in Biden's ability to lead and solve critical problems.

Why are democrats losing faith in Biden? Many headlines are attributing his advanced age as a key factor, and the woes that accompany it such as Alzheimer's, but I disagree with this analysis. Simply, many are realizing that there's just not much real fight in Biden, and it didn't seem like there ever was as president. He is too much of an institutionalist, and seems to merely accept existential failures as opposed to being innovative and taking bold action. As cliche as it sounds, these are unprecedented times right now; given how dangerous the GOP is becoming, especially by completely doubling down on Trumpism, it is clear that the American political climate is no longer a battle between liberalism and conservatism, but instead democracy vs fascism. And what the Democratic party needs is the candidate best suited to make the threat of fascism as irrelevant as possible. But Biden isn't that guy. Biden ran as the "unity" candidate, one who strived to bring back stability and bipartisanship to Washington, the latter which sounds great on paper but terrible in practice. Biden was not the leading Democratic candidate in any way- not on policy, his ability to command a crowd, or political savviness, and for much of the primary, popularity. But, the Democratic base compromised, and accepted him as the nominee, buying into the notion that his long governmental experience and institutional knowledge, as well as his history of being more moderate and reaching across the aisle, would be the best recipe for, as Biden puts it, building back better.

There are some seriously damning poll numbers coming out about Biden lately, and it's only worsening with time. Last week's polls show that just over 30% of Americans approve of his job as president, worse than any point under Trump. 71% of Democrats, including 90% of Democrats aged 18-28, want someone other than Biden to run in 2024. And over 90% of Americans claim they do not feel optimistic about the direction the country is heading in. Reliable democratic constituencies such as Hispanic Americans, young Americans, and Asian Americans, have lost Biden's support the most. And many Democratic candidates in midterm elections are not even seeking Biden endorsements or mentioning his agenda. All of this has led many to question whether Biden will ultimately run in 2024. The obvious argument in favor of no is that there are far better candidates, both in terms of policy and ability to beat the Republican challenger. But by not running Biden, especially when Trump, who was impeached twice and is currently under investigation pending Jan. 6 revelations, is still not seen as futile by the Republican party, having Biden primaried, or not run at all, is a tacit admission that his strain of governing has failed us. Such a thing happening is absolutely unprecedented. But is it really a bad thing?

All presidents have a legacy and are judged as "good" or "bad" both by historians and the general public for how they have governed and what they have accomplished. Biden's legacy will be, more than anything else, marked by what he did to uphold American democracy and prevent the rise of fascism. Doing so will require bold, unprecedented, possibly radical action. Relying on established institutions and whatever the legislature and courts decide simply is not enough. If Biden isn't up to task to solve this existential problem, which his actions or lack thereof in the last year and a half have suggested, then it is time for him to step aside. But it is important not to be pessimistic. Biden has been moved in the right direction on a multitude of issues throughout his political career, starting out with busing, then abortion rights, LGBT rights, and even criminal justice reform to a certain extent. If Biden is made to understand what a precarious state the nation is in right now, and that his current course of action- all in spite of his heart being the right place- is failing us, he could very well change that as well. Though only time will tell, and time is quickly running out.
 
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I think Biden succeeded at the immediate task at hand ... which was to defeat Donald Trump in 2020. He was clearly a compromise candidate selected for that particular task and the expectation of a steady administrative hand at the wheel. However, the Biden administration has been unable to cope with a cascading series of consequences from the Covid pandemic, years of questionable financial management by both parties and the unexpected events in Ukraine. Realistically, leaders of countries across the globe are struggling to deal with similar issues and are not doing a markedly better job. Unfortunately, it seems the average American does not have any awareness of the situation outside of the US, so blaming Biden for things like high gas prices & inflation is the default position.

If Trump and Trumpism was not waiting in the wings, the worst thing this would lead to would be a more conservative Congress in 2022 and possibly a more conservative administration in 2024. However, where things stand right now, failure to secure a majority - at least in the House - could lead to an extreme lurch to the right, even if Trump does not run in 2024. The undemocratic nature of the American political system lends itself to an outcome that does not fairly reflect the views of a majority of Americans and Republicans are ruthless in their exploitation of that fact. It makes the state of politics in the US seem particularly unstable - unhinged even.

I can't see Biden running in 2024. The Democrats have to come up with a candidate who can both inspire the base & also has widespread appeal among independents. I don't know who that would be.
 
In the past, when confronted with similar comprehensive disaster such as the Carter administration, the American people have reached out to an actor. Let's do it again.
 
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In the past, when confronted with similar comprehensive disaster such as the Carter administration, the American people have reached out to an actor. Let's do it again.
Yes, he was 2-term governor of the most populous state in the country, with the 3rd largest land mass and the largest economy by far, but the important point is that he was an actor.

:rolleyes:
 
Yes, he was 2-term governor of the most populous state in the country, with the 3rd largest land mass and the largest economy by far, but the important point is that he was an actor.

:rolleyes:
Did we forget that Trump was in Home Alone 2? Oh wait no, he was removed.
 
Although Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema are obvious culprits, it can reasonably be argued Biden's lack of fortitude and savviness in persuading them is also to blame.
Attributing good faith to Senators, especially those Senators, seems clearly wrong.
 
Yes, he was 2-term governor of the most populous state in the country, with the 3rd largest land mass and the largest economy by far, but the important point is that he was an actor.

:rolleyes:
I was hinting at the potential candidacy Matthew McConaughey.
 
I was hinting at the potential candidacy Matthew McConaughey.
Born in Uvalde, Texas.

At times like this I have to admit that I have no idea how politics work or how normal people work. Blaming Biden for what's going on in the world is for the most part like blaming pilots for cancelled flights. As far as I can tell, everything is running smooth as butter - my student loans are still delayed helping me to advance my career to the point of actually being able to pay them, there is new economic development around my city at a rate I haven't seen in my entire lifetime, the amount of people fed up with the Republican party is increasingly rapidly, I am not constantly bombarded with stressful nonstop about whatever stupid thing my president said in the last hour. It is very unfortunately that in Europe a megalomaniac forced the entire world to make difficult economic decisions to counter his horrible actions but these aligned responses were only possible because our president healed America's standing across the globe by not being a complete asshole. Plus, the weird economic situation we're in means my career field is in extreme demand so I stand to profit like I never thought I would.

I have no clue what will happen to Biden but I have a feeling that most people are giving into the narrative the media is painting @GranTurNismo because they all seem to thing one dude runs the entire government but that's not how it works. And it's not even related to the global economic issues that every country is dealing with right now. But they probably will punish this one old man because they have no other course of action. My current opinion is generally good about the old guy, but then again he did take over from the lowest of low points so anything would've been an improvement.

Edit: The real thorns in the side of the Democratic party are Sinema and Manchin and they won't leave until 2025. Very confident they'll both get replaced.
 
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Name a democrat president that democrats never turned against. Carter oversaw a terrible financial period, Clinton was impeached and disgraced, Obama didn't do enough to protect us from Trump and lost a supreme court seat to bad faith actors, and now Biden can't convince a senate that openly have stated there is no way to convince them (and did so before he took office).

Meanwhile, let's look at how the republicans feel about their presidents. Trump is worshipped as Jesus reborn. Bush Jr. was super popular among the right but is at this point a pariah for siding with America against Trump, Bush Sr. is well liked for his ability to stick it to the middle east, and Regan is revered as a god (republicans would like you to stop talking about presidents at this point).

What is in common here is that the left is always willing to abandon their leadership for "failures" while the republicans seemingly never do. Only when Bush Jr. had the audacity to call out republican nonsense did he become a "RINO". Is there any reason to suspect that this is anything other than the playing out of authoritarianism? Democrats have forgotten the most important step when it comes to Biden (and Obama, Clinton, and Carter) the worshipping part.

The left appears innately critical of their leaders, while the right is innately protective of theirs. If the left cannot learn to accept some things they don't like, they'll be doomed to this cycle forever. Don't turn into the right, don't worship at the alter of your leaders, but knock it off with the self-inflicted wounds. Biden cannot and should not do some of the things he's being asked to do.
 
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Name a democrat president that democrats never turned against. Carter oversaw a terrible financial period, Clinton was impeached and disgraced, Obama didn't do enough to protect us from Trump and lost a supreme court seat to bad faith actors, and now Biden can't convince a senate that openly have stated there is no way to convince them (and did so before he took office).

Meanwhile, let's look at how the republicans feel about their presidents. Trump is worshipped as Jesus reborn. Bush Jr. was super popular among the right but is at this point a pariah for siding with America against Trump, Bush Sr. is well liked for his ability to stick it to the middle east, and Regan is revered as a god (republicans would like you to stop talking about presidents at this point).

What is in common here is that the left is always willing to abandon their leadership for "failures" while the republicans seemingly never do. Only when Bush Jr. had the audacity to call out republican nonsense did he become a "RINO". Is there any reason to suspect that this is anything other than the playing out of authoritarianism? Democrats have forgotten the most important step when it comes to Biden (and Obama, Clinton, and Carter) the worshipping part.

The left appears innately critical of their leaders, while the right is innately protective of theirs. If the left cannot learn to accept some things they don't like, they'll be doomed to this cycle forever. Don't turn into the right, don't worship at the alter of your leaders, but knock it off with the self-inflicted wounds. Biden cannot and should not do some of the things he's being asked to do.
Sounds sorta like a religion.
 
I can't see Biden running in 2024. The Democrats have to come up with a candidate who can both inspire the base & also has widespread appeal among independents. I don't know who that would be.
And that's precisely the issue. If not Biden, who else. We know that there are more competent candidates out there, but not quite who. With the way things are going I doubt it's going to be Kamala Harris.

Attributing good faith to Senators, especially those Senators, seems clearly wrong.
Bernie Sanders' recent comments about Manchin and Sinema (to a lesser extent, in his own words) on NBC about how Manchin, who has taken more money from the fossil fuel industry this year than any other senator, should have never been seen as a serious actor during negotiations, and prioritizes what his 24 billionaire donors and the coal company he has a stake in wants, not what's best for West Virginia or America in general.

I was reading that if Biden really wanted to get brazen with Manchin, he should order the DOJ to investigate his daughter Heather Manchin, former CEO of Mylan Pharmaceuticals, who resigned her position upon being investigated for illegal price gouging. Advocating for primary-ing Manchin will all but guarantee a Republican senate seat, not a better Democrat.

Name a democrat president that democrats never turned against. Carter oversaw a terrible financial period, Clinton was impeached and disgraced, Obama didn't do enough to protect us from Trump and lost a supreme court seat to bad faith actors, and now Biden can't convince a senate that openly have stated there is no way to convince them (and did so before he took office).

Meanwhile, let's look at how the republicans feel about their presidents. Trump is worshipped as Jesus reborn. Bush Jr. was super popular among the right but is at this point a pariah for siding with America against Trump, Bush Sr. is well liked for his ability to stick it to the middle east, and Regan is revered as a god (republicans would like you to stop talking about presidents at this point).

What is in common here is that the left is always willing to abandon their leadership for "failures" while the republicans seemingly never do. Only when Bush Jr. had the audacity to call out republican nonsense did he become a "RINO". Is there any reason to suspect that this is anything other than the playing out of authoritarianism? Democrats have forgotten the most important step when it comes to Biden (and Obama, Clinton, and Carter) the worshipping part.

The left appears innately critical of their leaders, while the right is innately protective of theirs. If the left cannot learn to accept some things they don't like, they'll be doomed to this cycle forever. Don't turn into the right, don't worship at the alter of your leaders, but knock it off with the self-inflicted wounds. Biden cannot and should not do some of the things he's being asked to do
I really don't think the cult of personality based around Trump is at all comparable to Republicans' reception of the Bushes. Today's republicans are far more protective of Trump than any other leader.

After all, the average democratic voter isn't a lefty. Most still hold a high opinion of Barack Obama and his influence amongst the party still persists. The same could even be said for Bill Clinton to a certain extent. The New Democratic coalition, modeled after Bill Clinton's moderate, neoliberal ideology, is still the dominant strain of Democrat in both the house and senate. Some of the challenges that face Biden, such as inflation, foreign wars, and partisan gridlock, are not at all new, but such a grapple between democracy and fascism certainly is. As someone on "the left" I have accepted Biden and that future democratic presidents are not going to enact ambitious policies like the green new deal or universal healthcare. However, I will not concede on a lack of leadership and just "settling" during a completely unparalleled political sphere.

Though it can certainly be argued that democratic and republican voters seek completely different objectives from the leaders they elect. Democrats seem to prioritize decorum, integrity, and policies that are at least perceived a fulfilling fairness and equity. Republicans seem to want a strongman that either is Trump or unabashedly loyal to Trump/Trumpism, and can purge the "woke" and "degeneracy" from society- regardless of how democratic this process is- and anyone with an R in front of their name who does not commit to this is immediately exiled as a RINO. It's possible that in today's climate, these traits are more likely to make Democrats seem dejected while Republicans as devoted.
 
I was reading that if Biden really wanted to get brazen with Manchin, he should order the DOJ to investigate his daughter Heather Manchin, former CEO of Mylan Pharmaceuticals, who resigned her position upon being investigated for illegal price gouging.
Does this seem ok to you? That if you're a political enemy of the president then the president should command the DOJ to investigate your children?
 
Does this seem ok to you? That if you're a political enemy of the president then the president should command the DOJ to investigate your children?
Yes, if they actually committed a serious crime, which Heather Manchin Bresch seemed to have. There have been documents proving her intent to artificially keep EpiPen prices high, by forcing customers to purchase two EpiPens when they did not need to, because Mylan had an effective monopoly over the epinephrine injection market, and in a life-or-death situation, customers would likely buy two EpiPens for double the price rather than nothing. She also tried to strike a deal in which Pfizer would completely divest from EpiPen's main competitor. How is such obvious anticompetitive behavior via corporate executives legal?
 
If she has, she should be investigated without the president directing it to be done
The point is, it wouldn't have happened that way. Her and her father's wealth and political influence would be the main factors to impede this. She has retired from the company for over six years and has faced no retribution.
 
The point is, it wouldn't have happened that way. Her and her father's wealth and political influence would be the main factors to impede this. She has retired from the company for over six years and has faced no retribution.
Your complaint is not with the president, and has nothing to do with how to handle Joe Manchin. If that's how Biden is supposed to get "brazen", he should be subsequently impeached and removed from office for his brazen-ness, and it is exactly my point. The president cannot and should not do many of the things being asked of him.
 
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Your complaint is not with the president, and has nothing to do with how to handle Joe Manchin. If that's how Biden is supposed to get "brazen", he should be subsequently impeached and removed from office for his brazen-ness, and it is exactly my point. The president cannot and should not do many of the things being asked of him.
Whether you agree or disagree with the move is one thing, but I struggle to see how it would be an impeachable offense, though. If anything, it seems more like LBJ's style of getting Dixiecrats who weren't on board with his agenda to change their mind.
 
Whether you agree or disagree with the move is one thing, but I struggle to see how it would be an impeachable offense, though. If anything, it seems more like LBJ's style of getting Dixiecrats who weren't on board with his agenda to change their mind.
It's at least bribery and/or extortion - bribery being called out as specifically impeachable in the law and extortion fitting under the "high crimes and misdemeanors" section.
 
Because LBJ was such a shining example of presidential decorum and integrity.
 
Because LBJ was such a shining example of presidential decorum and integrity.
Of course not. But the democratic voting bloc of today has vastly changed, and so would the type of person they would elect.
It's at least bribery and/or extortion - bribery being called out as specifically impeachable in the law and extortion fitting under the "high crimes and misdemeanors" section.
I'm far from a legal or constitutional scholar and I'm willing to take your word for it... I find it hard to rationalize that president can be impeached for ordering someone to be investigated for a serious crime it is already known they committed. I get that it is a "mob boss" style of governing and is being done to influence legislative outcomes. I just didn't know that would be grounds for impeachment.
 
The reality is that any Democratic agenda relies on convincing their razor thin majority to vote unanimously - which means you're at the mercy of cynical jellyfish like Manchin to do anything. And that's just to pass the stuff that can pass with a simple majority in the Senate. Most of the things hurting Biden most right now are simply outside of his direct control (as much as everyone always insists otherwise with Presidents) - gas prices, post-COVID inflation and economic turmoil, etc. These are issues the entire western world is currently struggling to get under control. Not to mention the still-ongoing pandemic, and a public who have become tired of it.

My issues with Biden specifically, aside from policy disagreements, mostly stem from his utterly weak responses to dealing with the GOP. I scream inside when he utters some nonsense about still thinking he can work with them like it's the 90s and Senators were still meeting for drinks after work, as opposed to the utterly degenerate clown show that is the modern GOP.

The dementia nonsense is exactly that, and it honestly blows my mind when it comes from people who worship a guy that has an entire media library of clips, rambling incoherent word salad about every topic under the sun. But apparently that doesn't matter as long as you do it loudly and vigorously.

Assuming America is still a thing in 50 years it's going to be fascinating to see what kids are taught about this time in American history.
 
Of course not. But the democratic voting bloc of today has vastly changed, and so would the type of person they would elect.

I'm far from a legal or constitutional scholar and I'm willing to take your word for it... I find it hard to rationalize that president can be impeached for ordering someone to be investigated for a serious crime it is already known they committed. I get that it is a "mob boss" style of governing and is being done to influence legislative outcomes. I just didn't know that would be grounds for impeachment.
While it may pale in comparison to what Trump did, Biden cannot risk to alienate any majority now as it would leave him open to a possible impeachment by the Republicans if they regain majority during midterms (and might happily do that anyways).
 
I'm far from a legal or constitutional scholar and I'm willing to take your word for it... I find it hard to rationalize that president can be impeached for ordering someone to be investigated for a serious crime it is already known they committed. I get that it is a "mob boss" style of governing and is being done to influence legislative outcomes. I just didn't know that would be grounds for impeachment.
Threatening prosecution or not in exchange for a vote would be.

It would be also corrupt, although more legally defensible, for Biden to offer a pardon in exchange for a vote.
 
Threatening prosecution or not in exchange for a vote would be.

It would be also corrupt, although more legally defensible, for Biden to offer a pardon in exchange for a vote.
Ok, I'll concede that Biden ordering the DOJ to investigate Manchin's daughter in order to alter how he votes was far-fetched. Assuming you're correct that such a thing is unconstitutional, I ask this. What can Biden do, or if anything, to move over Manchin? It is clear that Manchin (and Sinema to some extent) has stonewalled the bulk of Biden's legislative agenda, not because his policies are so radical and out of touch with what is best for Americans, but because his financial obligations are at odds with these policies being implemented (most notably drug price reform and anything climate related). It is also clear that Biden's legislative failures, many of which attributable to Manchin, have seriously hurt his popularity. Is Biden to throw his hands in the air, simply accept what the legislature ("President Manchin") decides and move on- trying to excite the base in less meaningful ways or making false promises- or is there radical, though legal, action he can take that actually might have a chance? The old "well lets primary them" trick won't work given how red West Virginia is; Manchin is still a better alternative than even the most moderate Republican, and if he loses his primary a Republican is guaranteed to win.

Unfortunately, I believe that Manchin could only be moved to change his positions if his and his family's financial interests weren't so entrenched in these very issues. But that still tells us nothing about what can feasibly be done about it.
 
Ok, I'll concede that Biden ordering the DOJ to investigate Manchin's daughter in order to alter how he votes was far-fetched. Assuming you're correct that such a thing is unconstitutional, I ask this. What can Biden do, or if anything, to move over Manchin? It is clear that Manchin (and Sinema to some extent) has stonewalled the bulk of Biden's legislative agenda, not because his policies are so radical and out of touch with what is best for Americans, but because his financial obligations are at odds with these policies being implemented (most notably drug price reform and anything climate related). It is also clear that Biden's legislative failures, many of which attributable to Manchin, have seriously hurt his popularity. Is Biden to throw his hands in the air, simply accept what the legislature ("President Manchin") decides and move on- trying to excite the base in less meaningful ways or making false promises- or is there radical, though legal, action he can take that actually might have a chance? The old "well lets primary them" trick won't work given how red West Virginia is; Manchin is still a better alternative than even the most moderate Republican, and if he loses his primary a Republican is guaranteed to win.

Unfortunately, I believe that Manchin could only be moved to change his positions if his and his family's financial interests weren't so entrenched in these very issues. But that still tells us nothing about what can feasibly be done about it.
People who know the options far better than you and me have racked their brains over this issue, I can promise you that. What you are seeing is their best shot. I don't have any answers, but I think if they existed (short of breaking the law), it would have been done by now.

The democrats simply do not have a majority in the Senate. I know it appears as though they do, but they do not.
 
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