The Latest EVO

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david_perel
Hey,

I have been a subscriber of EVO magazine for a year now and my sub term has just run out.

Turns out that the magazine I am about to miss is the one Ive been waiting for, for quite a while: RS4 vs. M3

Has anyone got the mag? Any idea what the general verdict was (Im sure the M3 will win because of rear wheel drive, but how close was the beauty of an A4?)?

I have to wait at least a month because in S.A ou magazines are always a month behind (Unless you subscribe) and I cant wait that long :-P
 
Poverty
The RS4 wins hands down. They say its in a completly different league thanks to the engine.

I'd also throw in basically the entire drivetrain+powertrain. Oh and the interior is much better in my opinion.
 
So it beats the same-old-same-old M3... no biggie... since the M3 is a holdover from the last 3-series. But kudos to Audi anyway... that is, at least, till the next M3 comes out.

Still, it's amazing that Audi can do with their V8 what BMW has done with their I6. Sounds like a really sweet engine.
 
Top Gear rekons that the next M3 will have to be better that better to holds it own with the RS4... Which I doubt even though I am an Audi fan I am under no illusion.
 
Hmm, who here thinks BMW won't blow everyone away with it's next M3?

Hold up your hands.

*motions to armed thugs on the side of the room to shoot anyone with their hands up, to prevent them from spreading their genes any further*

Of course, I'm waiting for the M2, hopefully in CSL form.
 
*talks into my lapel, a hail of gunfire cuts down no 38*

Think about it, 4.0 Liter V-8, 8250 Redline, 400+ Hp guaranteed, 50/50 weight distribution, all the stuff that makes an M5 so freaking awesome, in a smaller, more manageable package.

Do you deny that the M5/M6 are awesome?
 
I used to think that the direct competition to the M3 was the S4, not the RS4... :rolleyes: A more proper comparison would be to compare the RS4 to an M3 CSL/GTR. I don't think the next M3 will be able to compete with the new RS4 because of this reason. Wait for a new generation M3 CSL maybe.

But to be honest I'm quite fed up of all these horsepower increases as to me they only seem to lead to heavier cars all the time.
 
You do have a vlid point with the weight but every new incarnation of teh car its getting bigger more luxurious and slighly faster.The current A3 is bigger that the first gen A4 so lets hope bmw and audi brig out RS and M versions of their hatchbacks.

However I think the new M3 will compete with the RS4 and most likely beat it. BMW just have to under all circumstances. They are under fierce attack by the VAG group. Probably not faster in a straight line but probably a bit fatser round corners. It will be a close one.
 
T13R
I used to think that the direct competition to the M3 was the S4, not the RS4... :rolleyes: A more proper comparison would be to compare the RS4 to an M3 CSL/GTR. I don't think the next M3 will be able to compete with the new RS4 because of this reason. Wait for a new generation M3 CSL maybe.

But to be honest I'm quite fed up of all these horsepower increases as to me they only seem to lead to heavier cars all the time.

:odd: I'd say that's about right. The 3 Series is the competitor to the S4 and the M3 is the competitor to the RS4...
 
You know the main thing that I think will seperate the two?

Even with all the gadgetry and doo-dads, an M5 has soul.

I've read that the RS4 is starting to get some soul, but starting too won't help against a drivers car like the M3.

The fact that BMW will be releasing a car that should trump the RS4 in everything except flat out 0-60 runs, and will probably be close there, PLUS has that BMW 'feel' should seal the deal.
 
The only negatives about the bmw is the interior and image. I imagine audi will up the rs4 a bit in the future anyway.
 
True, Audi has beautiful Interiors.

I myself loved the more spartan interiors of old BMW's though, and see the new interiors as an extension of that.

When the biggest selling point between two performance cars is the quality of the leather inside one of them, you aren't interested in the right aspects of these cars.
 
RO_JA
:odd: I'd say that's about right. The 3 Series is the competitor to the S4 and the M3 is the competitor to the RS4...
All using canadian specs:

Family car class
Audi A4: 200 to 255 hp
BMW 3 series: 174 to 255 hp

Sports car class
Audi S4: 340 hp
BMW M3: 333 hp

Crazy sports car class
Audi RS4: 420 hp
 
Funny... a lot of reviewers complain that the M5's soul is big daddy.

"Oops, did you overcook it there, kid? Let me help you out." :lol:

But at least the nannies aren't as intrusive as Merc's idiotic uber-controllers.
 
T13R
All using canadian specs:

Family car class
Audi A4: 200 to 255 hp
BMW 3 series: 174 to 255 hp

Sports Sedan class
Audi S4: 340 hp
BMW M3: 333 hp

Crazy sports Sedan class
Audi RS4: 414 hp
BMW M3 CSL: 370 hp
Hmm.

You are comparing new models to the last run of the M3?

Two things, how much does an S4 weigh?
Why aren't you tossing the M3 CSL in the Crazy Sports Sedan Class?

Heck, lets do it this way.

Where do these fit?

335ti 300+ Hp
335d stupid lb ft Torque
M3 400+ Hp
M3 CSL 450 Hp? Plus slimmed down close to or below stock 330i weights.

Now, the 335ti isn't for sure, but they have spotted intercoolers on 3 series mules with twin pipes, different pipes from the usual M 4 pipe exhaust, and the 335d is a serious car with its 479 or some god awful number of lb ft and good mileage.
 
...Assuming BMW doesnt go overboard with the techno-goodies on the new M3 (as they did with the M5), they should have a great successor to one of the biggest performance icons of the last 20 years.

I know that in the past (pre-GTPlanet forums) I was never a supporter of BMW, particularly the 3-series, but things change. The previous-generation E46 M3 was damn near perfect, both in looks and performance... And it was a pretty good buy for money (assuming you werent considering a Corvette or GTO)...

Hopefully BMW learns it's lesson... No SMG, no iDrive, no computer controlled steering or suspension, and for god sakes leave out the adaptive seats!
 
Onikaze
Do you deny that the M5/M6 are awesome?

Well I wouldn't say I'm in love with either. The M6 is a bit of a whale if you ask me, but the M5 is pretty cool.

Regarding lap times and comparing the CSL with an RS4 well I have read and heard stories of the RS4 holding its own with F360's and Gallardos. The CSL doesn't do stuff like that. Also with 8000rpm in a V8 how can the RS4 not have any soul?:sly:

I do agree however that they missed the boat by comparing the M3 CS to the RS4. The M3 CS should be compared with an S4 in a sportier kit while the CSL and the RS4 should be together. Well that how it makes sense in my mind.
 
Onikaze
Hmm.

You are comparing new models to the last run of the M3?

Two things, how much does an S4 weigh?
Why aren't you tossing the M3 CSL in the Crazy Sports Sedan Class?

Heck, lets do it this way.

Where do these fit?

335ti 300+ Hp
335d stupid lb ft Torque
M3 400+ Hp
M3 CSL 450 Hp? Plus slimmed down close to or below stock 330i weights.

Now, the 335ti isn't for sure, but they have spotted intercoolers on 3 series mules with twin pipes, different pipes from the usual M 4 pipe exhaust, and the 335d is a serious car with its 479 or some god awful number of lb ft and good mileage.
I didn't consider any future models to make it very clear that it would be ridiculous to compare a current BMW 3 series to an Audi S4, just as it's somewhat ridiculous to compare a current M3 to the new RS4.

If you also look at the evolution (in North America at least):

Older generation:
M3: 240 hp
S4: 250 hp

Current generation:
M3: 333 hp (343 in europe)
S4: supposed to be 344 hp (they had made it one more than the M3 on purpose)

That's why I think the M3 shouldn't be compared to an RS4 but an S4. That always seemed like the right comparison. Yes, the RS4 is in the same class as the M3, but the M3 is old and its direct competition is the S4. It's up to BMW to decide if they want to step up the M3 to be comparable to the RS4 or not, and my guess is they will.

kart.no.38
Regarding lap times and comparing the CSL with an RS4 well I have read and heard stories of the RS4 holding its own with F360's and Gallardos. The CSL doesn't do stuff like that.
I've seen a video of Best Motoring on Twin Ring Motegi where the CSL actually keeps up with and passes an F360 during a race. However the Gallardo was much quicker than either. If the RS4 can keep up with a Gallardo then that's insane!
 
Ok heres the article from evo or a snippet of it anyway.

RS4 quotes

"It feels light on its feet and even at the modest speeds the chassis has a balance and responsivness that immediately sets it apart from any other Audi I've driven. It's big brother, the mighty RS6, feels like a ballistic steamroller by comparison; all muscle and no subletly. Clearly The RS4 signals a new philosophy for sporting Audis."
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"Let's break down the constituent parts that set the RS4 apart from other Audis. First and the foremost there's the linear steering response. Its still a Servotronic set-up and perhaps just a shade on the light side, but unlike, say, the S4, the changes in assistance as your speed varies are imperceptible. The manual box is slick and positive, and the brakes are exceptional (the eight-piston front callipers grip 365 mm discs), displaying none of the hyper-sensitivity that often makes Audis tricky to meld with. It all feels just right. The engine is one of the greats. At low revs there's ample response, and it feels genuinely muscular even when lugging at 2000-3000 rpm. At 5000 rpm you're flying, and then , just when most V8s are starting to huff and puff under the strain, the RS4 kicks again and hammers on to 8250 rpm. Never once does it feel overstressed or unenthusiastic. It gives the RS4 a soul."
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M3 CS quotes

"Even in these conditions and with its power deficit, it can happily match the RS4. And the balance is just so good. Where are all the power gone? Ah, there it is - much higher up the rev-range. And what a noise! All high-tech, high-displacement fizz and crackle. Incredible throttle-response, too. The CS feels light, razor-sharp, almost devoid of intertia compared to the lazy Mercedes, and against expectations the M3 has more faithful front-end grip than even the RS4. Thats the advantage of having a straight-six tucked well back in the engine bay rather than a V8 slung out ahead of the front wheels."
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"Stay committed and the CS scythes cleanly through the corner, totally balanced, completely hooked-up. When you're dialled-in to the chassis and really nail a road in the M3 it's so unhurried, so serene. You could almost set it to music. I love this car."
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"So the RS4 kills the M3 CS, then? Well, not quite. At eight-tenths the RS4 feels exceptional, and even when pushed to its very limits it ratinas much of its composure. However, it's still true to the Audi philosophy, which means it will always look after you first and foremost, even when you just want a bit of entertainment."
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C55 quotes

"When you think of Mercedes integrity just a handful of years ago, the C55's interior feels cheap after the supreme quality and cool design of the RS4. The plastics are hopeless and the dash is a mess of tiny buttons with indecipherable legends. The C-class may be in the winter of its life, but the RS4 makes it feel obsolete already."
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"Still, with the RS4 long gone I can concentrate on just what the C55 has to offer as a driving experience. The ride isn't as settled as the Audi's the damping feels slightly less controlled and there's certainly more body-roll and pitch. The steering has a dead patch either side of neutral but then weights-up nicely, and although it's by no means the most feelsome of systems it does start to feel more accurate the quicker you go."
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"Like all AMG products, it's the engine that really defines the C55's character. I doesn't rev to heavens like the RS4's V8, but in the midrange you can feel the advantage of that extra displacement."
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The winner

"It comes down to RS4 and M3 CS. After ten minutes behind the wheel the RS4 was my winner. It's got the looks, the interior, the edge on performance. Forty-eight hours later, the deft balance, awesome adjustibility and sheer exuberance of the M3 CS seemed insurmountable. It gives you so many options, and I don't just mean you can oversteer it all day long (which you can). It has incredible balance, and it's so responsive to your inputs that you feel intimately involved through every part of every corner. For you and me, thats what really counts. The M3 is still the all-conquering action hero.
Did I mention there's a new one later this year?"
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EVO rating: M3 CS (5 stars), RS4 (5 stars), C55 (4 stars)

Tracktest and track behaviour
RS4: 1:28.6 min
M3: 1:29.8 min
C55: 1:30.1 min

"Three more different styles would be hard to find. The Audi's peerless traction means it holds its line brilliantly around the tricky Bank complex. The suberb brakes can upset its composure into Pif-Paf, though. The Merc's auto box is frustrating as it rarely responds immediately to your commands at these speeds. It particulary likes to prevent you from changing down. The way you can use the M3's tail to point the car into the apex is very effective, particulary through Bank and the last two corners. It would've have gone quicker had it not been delivered on new tyres."


These are great quotes. This is something Martinbo would say

"Get it right and the C55 dances with a delicious angle until the road straightens"

"You can often hear the RS4 tearing towards its red line, even when you're driving one of the other cars"

"The deft balance, awesome adjustability and sheer exuberance of the M3 seem insurmountable"
 
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