The line between defending and blocking - Why is is so hard to resist?

[DoctorNuu]

This weeks Race C at Tokyo (Central Outer Loop) serves as a perfect example.

1. People run slow out of a corner (or you - as the superior driver have better exit speed)
2. People realize you have a run on them and just cover your line to block.
3. On long slipstreaming sections (e.g. tunnel) they might even block 2 or 3 times. The fact that it is not a real straight helps in disguising it.

Watching my replays I have discovered that I did some borderline 'dirty' moves, too. It is just hard to resist the urge to cut them off.
If picking a side once is OK, why not pick it right in front of their nose?

So how much blocking is OK? Not talking about going defensive into corners, which is obviously fine.
How do you deal with blocks? I find it hard to switch sides quick enough on a last second block.

 

[Groundfish]

Personally when I have a run a driver who knows how to drive will piosition his car assertively in one movement prior to brake zone.
So nice when this occurs. You instantly know he knows you are coming and says here’s where I’m going deal with it type thing. This person is cool, and prolly pretty fast.
If someone has the run on me I’ll will choose what side to be the same way.
When I have a run against someone who may be sketchy I will try to force them one way or another but if they sit there I get an inch from their bumper to max my speed in slip and snap hard out to my chosen side. This way they have no time to block and you are alongside.
I drove c once. Once. Fun to drive, dunno bout race. Used it for sr no qual.

 

[BaareCZ]

Yeah, this week's race C is the perfect place to block. If the player in the front doesn't want you to, then you shall not pass! Can't even punt them off, they just bounce right back. I personally don't block. If they're faster than me (and clean!) then I will happily (and at the best opportunity) open the door for them. I only ever resort to blocking if the move the other player is going for is just stupid and would undoubtedly end up with me going on a trip to the beach. Which sometimes happens anyway because, you know, I'm a dirty blocker.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Moving once on the straight is fine.

Consistently swerving back and forth on the straights might lead to some accidental contact though

 

[AngryKowski]

I intepretate a block as a ramming attempt, so I lose my temper in a rather controlled way and smash them out of my view, even If I spin myself out and rage quit. For me that's something I can't resist to do.

 

[eran0004]

One change of line to defend your position is actually a written rule. It’s in appendix L of the FIA Sporting Code.

It’s also conditioned on not being an erratic move or a dangerous move or deliberate crowding. And if you have defended your position off the racing line, you must leave at least one car’s width when you return to the racing line.

 

[Ashthebash]

If someone has a run on me and is clearly going to go past before the braking zone I don't move at all, if someone has a run and it's going to be close into the braking zone then I'll usually move tight to the inside before they have to commit and force them around the outside. I do this because it's how I think defending should be done if it's done fairly. Any instance of blocking, whether one move or more is unsporting in my opinion.

Saturday in Nations I had a run on someone out the final turn, he moved off the racing line and out of the car ahead's slipstream to get in my way and stop me from drawing alongside him, then went back into the slipstream, now this was near the start of the straight, way before the S/F line. It was only one move, but it was a block and unsporting. I think if the move causes the attacking driver to get off the throttle when they shouldn't have to then it's in the realms of dirt

 

[8l23ub]

Blocking is never OK.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

I've always assumed that one defensive move then returning to the racing line is acceptable but only if you don't crowd the other car off the road. Also if you move in the braking zone you can have no complaints if the car behind drives straight through you.

 

[iamQmai]

One change of line to defend your position is actually a written rule. It’s in appendix L of the FIA Sporting Code.

It’s also conditioned on not being an erratic move or a dangerous move or deliberate crowding. And if you have defended your position off the racing line, you must leave at least one car’s width when you return to the racing line.

Let's say there's a track that has 4 lanes on a straight which narrows to 3 (think Abu Dhabi, obviously not on GT, but this is in theory), and you stick in the lane 3 while attacker is in lane 4 which will get cut off, would you give them the room to "get on track" or force them to slow down? Some people would say its deliberate crowding, whereas I'd say why was he in a lane that was going to get cut off?

My view on defending is, as long as they're not anything alongside, you can go where ever you want, providing you're not weaving. I also think you should leave room round the outside if there's a car next to you on a corner.

 

[breeminator]

It was only one move, but it was a block

Yes, I'd say you can't drive on the racing line, wait till the person who has a run on you is just about to overlap you, then make your one move in that direction to block them, that's still a block.

 

[Pigems]

I almost always defend on the outside, force them tight and get a better run out of the corner on the cut back. I don’t really like taking the inside defensive line unless it’s the last few corners and I have no other choice.

 

[eran0004]

Let's say there's a track that has 4 lanes on a straight which narrows to 3 (think Abu Dhabi, obviously not on GT, but this is in theory), and you stick in the lane 3 while attacker is in lane 4 which will get cut off, would you give them the room to "get on track" or force them to slow down? Some people would say its deliberate crowding, whereas I'd say why was he in a lane that was going to get cut off?

To make that case you must first try to make the case of why you think the track should consists of discrete lanes (and where you find support for that view in sporting regulations). Then why it is lane x that gets cut off and none of the other ones. Finally why the car that is in a lane that gets cut off should yield to cars in other lanes. In the figure above I made three cases to illustrate some of the reasons why lane theory is flawed. In case 1 it happens to be lane 4 that gets cut off and in case 2 it happens to be lane 2. In case 3 none of the lanes are actually cut off, they all just become narrower.

In reality there is no way for the drivers to tell which of these cases (or any other possible lane configuration) that is occuring since there are no lane markings on the track. And the reason for the lack of lane markings is because a racetrack doesn't have lanes - other than the pit lane. The track just has limits, usually marked by a white line along the edge. Deliberate crowding is when you deliberately force a car off the track by not leaving them enough space between your car and the track edge. That is clearly stated in appendix L 4:2 b: "manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are strictly prohibited."

My view on defending is, as long as they're not anything alongside, you can go where ever you want, providing you're not weaving. I also think you should leave room round the outside if there's a car next to you on a corner.

Appendix L 4:2 b states that one change of direction is allowed, and that if you moved off the racing line to defend your position you must leave at least one car width between your car and the track edge when you move back towards the racing line upon approaching a corner. 4:2 e prohibits driving "unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers at any time."

So it doesn't really leave you many options. The choice you can make is basically "should I make the move to defend or am I better off where I currently am?". Instead of trying to prevent the other car from getting up next to you, it's better to try to think ahead, assume that the other car will manage to get side by side with you and work out which position on the track will be the most beneficial for you when you reach the next corner (or next set of corners). Such a strategy is guaranteed to provide clean and fair racing on your behalf and in worst case you will only let a faster driver get past you which in all honesty isn't that big of a disaster. Fair and clean racing where you finished 6th after a great battle is better than dirty and foul racing where you finished 4th after forcing a faster driver into the wall and another to spin. If you are desperate for a win, practice harder and become a faster driver.

 

[Ashthebash]

I've always assumed that one defensive move then returning to the racing line is acceptable but only if you don't crowd the other car off the road. Also if you move in the braking zone you can have no complaints if the car behind drives straight through you.

Yeah I agree. If you're behind me (fat chance!) and I move towards the centre of the track to defend but you stay on the racing line and don't look to pass (again, fat chance!) as long as there's clearance and I'm not cutting across your front then I'm fine to move back onto the racing line before the corner. It all really comes down to doing your defensive move early, rather than reacting to what's going on behind you and putting your car in the way of any overtake

 

[DoctorNuu]

The main source for complaint are drivers who make a mistake, like touching the wall on exit.
Then, instead of getting ... oh, no swearing ... OUT of the way, as one would in real life, they intentionally get IN the way.
Just gamer's reflexes, I guess. Have to finally leave DR B behind for good...

 

[zortation]

Playing fair is actually more fun than being an asshole, because some guys just don't expect it...throws them off their game.

 

[dabz343]

Instead of trying to prevent the other car from getting up next to you, it's better to try to think ahead, assume that the other car will manage to get side by side with you and work out which position on the track will be the most beneficial for you when you reach the next corner (or next set of corners). Such a strategy is guaranteed to provide clean and fair racing on your behalf and in worst case you will only let a faster driver get past you which in all honesty isn't that big of a disaster. Fair and clean racing where you finished 6th after a great battle is better than dirty and foul racing where you finished 4th after forcing a faster driver into the wall and another to spin.

Only a select few will ever comprehend these words...GTS needs to provide proper stewardship--especially for the new guys that are just starting out.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

The big problem I have is people who unknowingly block my exit line. We enter the turn two wide, with me on the inside, and instead of maximizing their exit speed and carrying it to the edge of the track they either stop short of going to the edge or begin turning back in to limit my exit speed. I have no qualms with nudging these people to the outer lane of the track in order to keep up my exit speed.

 

[Stencedaddy]

Moving once on the straight is fine.

Consistently swerving back and forth on the straights might lead to some accidental contact though

Soembody did that to me at bathurst so i sent him a message about racing etiquette and he starts telling me how its allowed and ive obviously never driven on a real life track. Which is true i havent but if you think like that and are allowed on a real track thats a big yikes for anyone else on the track. Its the classic sports reply. Oh you cant say anything bad about michael jordan because you cant even hit a shot. Which is completely irrelevant.

 

[Deadpool]

The poll needs a new option. Moving once is fine, provided it’s not a dangerous move.

At race C (Le Mans) the other week I ran the 962 and it was hilarious/idiotic when a Toyota would decide to try and block me on the straight as I’m trying to pass at over 200mph.

Yes you’re allowed one move.......but that was incredibly dangerous and would have seen you receiving a black flag in real life. Those last second blocks (within a car length) at high speed are brain dead, you would never pull that garbage in real life.

 

[kilesa4568]

Those last second blocks (within a car length) at high speed are brain dead, you would never pull that garbage in real life.

Verstappen does.

Whatever the car in front or behind's intentions are, as long as they look remotely predictable doing it, I'm fine with it.

 

[Deadpool]

Verstappen does.

Whatever the car in front or behind's intentions are, as long as they look remotely predictable doing it, I'm fine with it.

Lol he does manage to get away with some crazy stuff. I’d say he at least telegraphs what he’s doing.

But agreed, predictability is key.

 

[Junkman55]

There are two advantages in racing the driver in front picks his line and that’s straightaway and turn entry in and out. The driver trying to overtake has the ability of seeing the mistakes of the driver in front so he can make adjustment to his line to overtake, That’s it ! as long as no one is pushed off the track It’s anyones chance to come out ahead .
Maybe the problem lies with drivers who think that their qualifying time gives them a free pass in a race, well it only gives the advantage of being in front at the start with the green flag and when you pass that flag the drivers behind you want to see the checkered flag before you. There is one written rule don’t knot any one off the track to get the advantage .

 

[Ashthebash]

Verstappen does.

Whatever the car in front or behind's intentions are, as long as they look remotely predictable doing it, I'm fine with it.

He definitely did when he was first in F1, a move on Raikkonen at Spa sticks out, that was almost a plane crash. I don't think he does that so much now but he does like to put his car directly in front of a chasing car just before the braking zone, which has resulted in him being rear ended more than once as he's taken away all the drag from the car behind which subsequently can't slow down as quickly as normal (thinking Ricciardo at Baku and Vettel at Silverstone off the top of my head)

 

[Kevstah2004]

As long as your not trying to brush my car off the road when i’m side by side, I don’t care how many moves you make.
Make your car as wide as possible when i’m behind, imo it’s on the person behind to find the perfect passing opportunity, why do so many feel the need for it to be simply gifted to them?
The biggest annoyance for me, is brake testers, who blame you for crashing into them.

 

[Junkman55]

Yes, I'd say you can't drive on the racing line, wait till the person who has a run on you is just about to overlap you, then make your one move in that direction to block them, that's still a block.

That’s why we have a Blue Flag you ONLY need to give way to lapping cars if you don’t then the Black flag will be your shame.

 

[Redneckchef]

I present to you clear cut blocking, then when he doesnt cause me to get a penalty he tries to rub me out on the wall. So I had been top 5 all race, this guy ahead. He did hards first the mediums, I was the other way. I had reeled in 4 seconds over the last 2 laps leading to this. They got the penalty from hitting the wall on that uphill turn exiting the second tunnel a few seconds before video starts. I had a clean race going to this point. Tried my best to stay back and be clean. But what a muppet.

 

[Kevstah2004]

I present to you clear cut blocking, then when he doesnt cause me to get a penalty he tries to rub me out on the wall. So I had been top 5 all race, this guy ahead. He did hards first the mediums, I was the other way. I had reeled in 4 seconds over the last 2 laps leading to this. They got the penalty from hitting the wall on that uphill turn exiting the second tunnel a few seconds before video starts. I had a clean race going to this point. Tried my best to stay back and be clean. But what a muppet.

Good ole Schumi style

 

[Junkman55]

I present to you clear cut blocking, then when he doesnt cause me to get a penalty he tries to rub me out on the wall. So I had been top 5 all race, this guy ahead. He did hards first the mediums, I was the other way. I had reeled in 4 seconds over the last 2 laps leading to this. They got the penalty from hitting the wall on that uphill turn exiting the second tunnel a few seconds before video starts. I had a clean race going to this point. Tried my best to stay back and be clean. But what a muppet.

My hat is off to you nice pass , the Tokyo tracks are a pin ball layout for sure no place for a clean race finish . When a driver make move like the ones you were dealing with makes for a learning experience for passing in heavy traffic with better drivers on better tracks.

Racing was easy it would not be fun.