The Morality of Adult Films

[Danoff]

An old story now but I found it rather amusing.

In a splendid case of moral dissonance, porn actress Sasha Grey once went to a school in a rough area and read books to children.

How awful that someone takes their time to participate in a non-profit educational programme in a professional manner!

She tries to go straight and be a legitimate mainstream actress, and those who didn't like her for being a porn star now don't like her for being charitable. Forgiveness is devine. Being a self-righteous douche is human.

I have followed her career very closely and where she is now is a place where she should be given some credit for making positive changes and getting out of adult entertainment.

I bet you have.

Unfortunately, history never forgets....

And the self-righteous never forgive.

If she wanted to come read to my daughter I would let her.

....Crazy, wild theory: the eagle was actually hunting down rare Pokemons. Some of them look tasty, after all.



You mean, internet never forgets....

I don't give her any credit for getting out of adult entertainment. She gets credit for wanting to participate in charity, but she was doing a lot of good work as an adult actress. She was an innovator, though, and I think, to an extent, her innovation was done. Still, no reason why she should be getting credit for getting out of the business.

I think she left adult films to go into more mainstream films? It's sad that that's a choice that must be made. If she wants to go both ways, why should we complain?



...and that's a great thing because she's done a lot of great work. Forgetting her contribution to her field would be like forgetting Peyton Manning after he retired.



Me too! And I'd get an autograph. There's nothing to forgive though.

Well, I guess we differ, I don't have any problem with seeing adult entertainment so I disagree with the negative tone of your post. What's to forget/remember? Almost everybody is gettin' it on somewhere, somehow.

I don't disagree with anything you said, but I was referring to the family values conservatives who would hold her adult career against her.

If this were a drug addict who went to jail, then converted to Christianity in prison, and became a preacher they'd be praising her. I've seen it in person. "He knows what it's like to come back from a sinful life to find Christ and spread his word." Here, they don't see someone who walked away from a sinful life and is helping others. They see a harlot that deserves to be outcast.

As for having to choose between adult or mainstream, do one type of thing long enough and you get typecast. A few mainstream actors and actresses have one or two adult roles in their career, but it wasn't long lasting.

I'm sorry if people got the wrong of the stick somehow with my post, I have absolutely no objection with her charity work, or going into schools to help with childhood literacy; I think it's a very worthy cause.

My comment was purely a remark on the fact that in today's society and the all-seeing eye of the internet, there is no getting away from your history.

Which is completely fair enough.

I think the sentiment from the members you quoted echoed my own thoughts. Which were that there was no shame in having worked in her previous field & that her previous work was not anything that should jeopardise any future career moves or charitable endeavours.

If they are doing it through choice and not forced to by circumstance or otherwise and they were paid a fair amount for their work then I would be fine with people I know being porn stars.

There's still the implication that somehow her former career was a Bad Thing, no?

Hmm, I wondered about the way you capitalised there. Then I read the blurb for the 24 minute long movie "A Bad Thing" - "Conservative attorney Frank Harrison's professional relationship with his young, ambitious assistant undergoes a troubling transformation after his assistant catches him in a very compromising situation". But alas, if there was a porno pun implied, that one wasn't it.

I'm sorry if that was how it was interpreted, but no implication intended, I promise. She did what she wanted/needed to do at the time, and it is not our place to judge her for it. She has now been able to change her career to one she must have wanted to do originally, and more power to her!

From reading the above it's clear that even the people who want to be on her side seem to have trouble not stepping on their own words - that's how ingrained the stigma of working in the adult film industry is. There is, regardless of the circumstances of the members here, a knee-jerk reaction that her doing charity work is somehow a repentance for a life of sin. That she's trying to distance herself from it. That she's trying to atone for her past. That she's running from her past. That she's seeking forgiveness. That she's the equivalent of an alcoholic who has gone sober. Each of those was mentioned above.

I don't know if she is or not.

What I do know is that none of that is implied. There's no reason why she needs to distance herself from, atone for, run from, or seek forgiveness for her past. She hasn't done anything wrong. She is not the equivalent of an alcoholic who has gone sober. Her retirement is not an automatic acknowledgement of a problem. She is a star who hung up her cleats. If Peyton Manning does charity work we don't ask ourselves whether a religious institution would see him in the same light as an alcoholic gone straight.

I get that many religious institutions automatically see what she did for a living as sin, and not so for Peyton Manning. But there's still no reason to think that they would see her in the same light as someone who has gone after sobriety unless she quit out of some sort of recognition of poor behavior or sin.

As far as I can tell, everyone here wishes her well and nobody is judging. That's great. I'm just pointing out how completely ingrained it is in our language, in our choices of examples, in our assumptions about her lifestyle that we think she regrets it or has changed her ways. Not to pick too much on @FoolKiller here but he even starts out saying that she's trying to be a "legitimate" actress... as if she wasn't.

I also really dislike the insistence on bringing up circumstances or force, as if this industry was somehow different from any other. We say that we hope she didn't do it against her will. Ok, fine, but I also hope someone doesn't become a doctor against their will. I hope their parents didn't pressure them into it. I hope that the construction worker isn't building a house out of desperation. When people find themselves in difficult situations, they make choices. If you choose to become a porn star, it's because that sounded more appealing to you than other choices. We know that she was not literally forced into being on camera. The rest is pretty much moot. The notion that she needs to be paid a certain amount is crazy to me too. Do we hold it against Doctors without borders when they go do charity work? If she wants to do that on camera for free... great.

Sometimes GTPlanet surprises me, and this is one of those times. I'm quite surprised that so many members have such a buried bias on this issue that they are unable to recognize it.

Edit:

And another thing... apparently I'm not done yet...

We all know who this person is. We've all seen her films. We've all seen lots of adult actresses in a lot of films. Ok not everyone, but many of us have. These people reach so many, and they entertain and innovate in ways that are quite challenging in many respects. Why must we fail to recognize these people. Why do we openly acknowledge our favorite football stars or how hot we think the latest bombshell actress is (like... Megan Fox for example), and yet we can't acknowledge how fantastic someone like Sasha Grey is - despite everyone in the room knowing who she is, many of them having a profound fondness for her work.

It's really staggering how many people these women reach, and the entertainment they provide, and we treat them like second class citizens for it.

 

[JKgo]

....Whew, what a relief. I don't remember making a post in this thread yet I got quoted so I almost panicked wondering if my ID's been hijacked or something.

Although, I gotta say I'm not sure why I was quoted at all. I'm neither here nor there on Miss Grey reading a storybook for kids. As far as I'm concerned, she can do whatever she likes as long as it's within the limits of lawful behavior.

My post was about how difficult it is to erase your past in this day of "internet everything", and of those people who finds fault no matter what.

Like, that Miss Teen USA girl, who got busted for making some brainless tweets back... uh, two years ago? Someone with a lot of free time went through thousands (not literal) tweets to locate those and try to shame her publically.

As for Grey herself.... nope, she ain't my type. Her tats really break the.... immersion of the scenes.

 

[Danoff]

Her tats really break the.... immersion of the scenes.

You must be confusing her with someone else. Pretty sure she had no tats as a performer. I'll check for you.

 

[huskeR32]

I'll check for you.

 

[justin credible]

Never heard of her.
So she did some adult films no biggy there as I can see.
Now she wants to have a career with her clothes on no problem there for me either.
She will always get that stigma of look it's the ex porn star as we live in a very shallow minded world when it comes to porn, if she was a teacher then a star of some Spielberg smash no one would bat an eyelid.
Morality on porn starts is a huge divide I can only give my opinion I have not seen a porn movie for over 30 years just doesn't do it for me watching other people at it.
My opinion is I haven't got a problem with porn it is a help to many a single person or couple.
I don't find the whole thing immoral yet in the same breath if my daughter said she was going in to the adult film industry I would try and convince her not to! Hypocritical at it's best but true.

 

[Winters Noble]

I never understood the outrage. When I heard the story, nothing came to mind. It's okay if you don't agree with the practice, but it's like the mere mention that an adult actor/actress came into contact with children is likened to the reaction to a pedophile. People are not what they do, and the porn industry is no different. I don't consider the adult film industry a "dirty" profession or one that is more immoral than a tax collector. I'm tired of prudes. If this Sasha Grey moment happened to my kids (far future), I would be honored.

 

[JKgo]

....Oh hi, it's me again. Call it a coincidence, but I just ran into this BBC article right after I logged out of here.

I think it is somewhat relevant to the thread's topic so here's the link.

"The porn star who went to Iran for a nose job"

Before some of yous arrive at a faulty conclusion of me having an agenda because of the above headline, I apologize - I don't even know how to spell agenda. Except just now.

 

[homeforsummer]

As far as I can tell, she hasn't harmed anyone (who hasn't consented to it) in her previous career (generally I suspect it's quite the opposite of harm), and nothing about it should stop her doing what she wants to do now.

 

[FoolKiller]

As far as I can tell, everyone here wishes her well and nobody is judging. That's great. I'm just pointing out how completely ingrained it is in our language, in our choices of examples, in our assumptions about her lifestyle that we think she regrets it or has changed her ways. Not to pick too much on @FoolKiller here but he even starts out saying that she's trying to be a "legitimate" actress... as if she wasn't.

I won't deny that I have an ingrained lexicon around these kinds of subjects. I had a very conservative upbringing and find that when discussing the legitimacy of anything dealing with sex, drugs, or gambling I fall back on language that sounds as if it was somehow not legitimate.

And that's the problem. I was raised with a certain perspective. Even though I now have a different perspective my language will often reflect my upbringing purely out of habit.

 

[justin credible]

....Oh hi, it's me again. Call it a coincidence, but I just ran into this BBC article right after I logged out of here.

I think it is somewhat relevant to the thread's topic so here's the link.

"The porn star who went to Iran for a nose job"

Before some of yous arrive at a faulty conclusion of me having an agenda because of the above headline, I apologize - I don't even know how to spell agenda. Except just now.

Is it just the rustle of a wad of cash can get anything done? So what she went to Iran for a nose job.
I am not sure what would have happened if they found out her true identity and her career some one enlighten us please.

 

[DG_Silva]

Being gay, I can honestly say I have not seen any of Sasha Grey's work before she came to Hollywood, and not knowingly watched any since - not because I made a concerted effort to avoid her, but simply because she does star in the kind of films I watch.

The choices she made in her earlier career may not have been the path that she had originally envisaged, however that does mean not she made immoral or irresponsible choices. If she feels that now she is in a position where she can be listened to by the general public about good causes, then she needs to use this power efficiently.

------------------

I'm going to slightly divert here, but it is still relevant. The biggest hypocrisy I see, and have a real annoyance with, is the WWE's promotion of the anti-bullying program Be A Star, yet the majority of babyface wrestlers such as John Cena are victims of constantly bullying.

I won't say any more about this in this thread.

 

[Danoff]

To take this to another level when it comes to morality and adult films, what about the combination of virtual reality with simulation devices? (you may not want someone reading over your shoulder if you click that link. Not that there's anything bad in there, but it's not... a topic for your co-workers) You put on VR goggles so that you're in the scene, and then are connected to a device that actually simulates the contact of the scene.

If that's done in real time, say over the internet with someone putting on a live "show" for viewers, that's basically prostitution. Someone on one side provides input to an input device, the person on the other side feels it simulated through the output device. The only thing different between that and prostitution is an inability to get STDs.

It could be performed in a different way though, you can have a prerecorded scene and a prerecorded set of contact inputs just like an adult movie. In that case, you're not actually interacting with the person in real time, but really it's just time-shifted. I asked my wife about this one at one point, the question was "when is it cheating". She seemed to think that there would be a difference between a real-time interaction and a time-shifted interaction, though she was having trouble pinning down exactly what the distinction is there.

 

[JKgo]

Is it just the rustle of a wad of cash can get anything done? So what she went to Iran for a nose job.
I am not sure what would have happened if they found out her true identity and her career some one enlighten us please.

....It's a deeply conservative and religious nation so a porn star entering it would have been prevented if it were known. But you're right, money talks.

@Danoff, you mean something like this?

Spoiler: Definitely NOT ME in this gif

 

[LeMansAid]

She is not the equivalent of an alcoholic who has gone sober. Her retirement is not an automatic acknowledgement of a problem.

What's wrong with being an alcoholic? And no, someone that ceases being an alcoholic has not automatically acknowledged a problem. For some it's just simply the choice of a lifestyle change. Why the stigma perpetuation?

To be honest, I think this one is just as much on you as anyone else here, @Danoff. We push, pull, and prod at every topic that comes to hand, and we make jokes where there's jokes to be made. I see people doing the same thing here, but you seem to be seeing something out of character, where it's not. I think that you're over correcting, and defeating your own principles somewhat, in the process.

It's a bit like this.....

I think the sentiment from the members you quoted echoed my own thoughts. Which were that there was no shame in having worked in her previous field & that her previous work was not anything that should jeopardise any future career moves or charitable endeavours.

Why shouldn't it? Perception is reality in the entertainment industry. Art is subjective. Make what is considered a crap film and you'll suffer the consequences. Type cast yourself and you'll suffer the consequences. It's often just equality at play in stigmatising porn actors.

Maybe one day porn will be seen totally differently, either in someone's past or present. Maybe one day "going full retard" WILL win acting awards for people. But to ask that they be given a leg up just because stigmas generated by the rightly completely subjective analysis of ventures doesn't seem fair, is tantamount to exhibiting some rather meek form of political correctness.

 

[Omnis]

She deserves admiration for shooting milk out of her butthole while wearing a pig snout with a guy's foot in her mouth. Now that's innovative!

People also call some of today's music art. /shrug.

 

[LeMansAid]

People also call some of today's music art.

You think that none of it should be considered art? That's the implication of that sentence.

 

[Omnis]

No it isn't. The implication is that some of it shouldn't be considered art.

 

[McLaren]

I wanted to quote a couple parts of your post, @Danoff. Not that I disagree, but more so to add my opinion. The industry is, to be somewhat revealing here, an interesting area to look at once you get past all the genitals & act of reproduction.

From reading the above it's clear that even the people who want to be on her side seem to have trouble not stepping on their own words - that's how ingrained the stigma of working in the adult film industry is. There is, regardless of the circumstances of the members here, a knee-jerk reaction that her doing charity work is somehow a repentance for a life of sin. That she's trying to distance herself from it. That she's trying to atone for her past. That she's running from her past. That she's seeking forgiveness. That she's the equivalent of an alcoholic who has gone sober. Each of those was mentioned above.

I don't know if she is or not.

I actually haven't followed much of Sasha, but in terms of others in the industry, these points are there. Some do get out of it for religious reasons, and partake in events to "cleanse" themselves. Some do also consider the industry somewhat like an addiction; they enjoyed the work and the money more than they originally felt. The points presented aren't necessarily wrong, it just depends on the person in the industry. From what I've seen of Sasha, she seems to fit the mold of most women; they eventually just decide to retire and begin pursuing other careers. Sasha may be the luckiest to have actually found a career in acting out of it.

I will say that because there are so many girls entering and leaving the industry, it does begin to paint the picture that most may be leaving for negative reasons when they just disappear. Many leave when personal lives become revealed or vice versa when someone close discovers what they're doing. A huge chunk also do just up and "retire" after a couple years b/c it's not for them. I follow a few on Instagram who left just because they were ready to do something else (although judging by the amount of cleavage/sexual pics they share, it's clear they know there's still something to be gained). For most however, unless they make a name for themselves, leave without a word.

I also really dislike the insistence on bringing up circumstances or force, as if this industry was somehow different from any other. We say that we hope she didn't do it against her will. Ok, fine, but I also hope someone doesn't become a doctor against their will. I hope their parents didn't pressure them into it. I hope that the construction worker isn't building a house out of desperation. When people find themselves in difficult situations, they make choices. If you choose to become a porn star, it's because that sounded more appealing to you than other choices. We know that she was not literally forced into being on camera. The rest is pretty much moot. The notion that she needs to be paid a certain amount is crazy to me too. Do we hold it against Doctors without borders when they go do charity work? If she wants to do that on camera for free... great.

Nearly every one of the girls in the industry do it on their own free will. Any videos you may see of someone being tricked is just there to satisfy a "fetish". Same with the "impregnated" videos or ones that claim to be sisters.

Focusing on the " as if this industry was somehow different from any other" comment, this is pretty spot on besides all the nudity. This is a heavily regulated business from the money to the health of the people involved, at least in the US where there a lot of legalities to conform to. Sure, some girls do get into it for the money, but a lot of those girls are out of the industry within' a year or so. It also has its share of bad apples and bad blood. Some companies are great to shoot for, some are very dishonest behind the scenes. Lots and lots of diversity in it from the obvious legal & illegal ones, to companies that focus more on the romance than the fake dirty talk. A lot of porn is almost really just models that are completely nude; no sex and no sexual poses/gestures.

We all know who this person is. We've all seen her films. We've all seen lots of adult actresses in a lot of films. Ok not everyone, but many of us have. These people reach so many, and they entertain and innovate in ways that are quite challenging in many respects. Why must we fail to recognize these people. Why do we openly acknowledge our favorite football stars or how hot we think the latest bombshell actress is (like... Megan Fox for example), and yet we can't acknowledge how fantastic someone like Sasha Grey is - despite everyone in the room knowing who she is, many of them having a profound fondness for her work.

It's really staggering how many people these women reach, and the entertainment they provide, and we treat them like second class citizens for it.

The only thing I would kind of question here is the use of the word "entertainment", but that's me.

I do think though, that you see a lot of the industry as I do because you don't just look at the flesh of it. I think you're more aware than most of the background of the porn industry, and how it works, that it isn't at all that different from typical film making. People go in, they go through makeup, they figure out what they're going to do, and they put on the show. The only major difference is the shoots only take 4-8 hours a day, maybe couple days at a time, depending on how "in-depth" they want the film to go, hence why they can pump out so many flicks in a year. Beyond that, there's everything you find in show biz; agents, lawyers, film crews, editors, folks with lists of people they will/will not work with, well respected production companies and awful ones. The only addition is the amount of doctors involved in the industry because of how regulated health checks are. Of course, it's not as complicated as Hollywood is, since it all still revolves around a pretty simple...activity. But, they're there.

At the end of the day, they're all still real people with their own lives and opinions. While they rely on their bodies to make them money, that doesn't mean one can paint them all the same. Some are very much screwed in the head, some talk just as dirty as do in a video, and some might as well be the sweet girl next door off the camera. If folks take the time to listen to them, you can find out a lot about the industry, good and bad, & realize they're really no different from people in other type of business. Many do get in and out of it for the same reason as any other person does else in their own careers. Which to get back to the topic, baffles me when people get into a fit hearing a former porn star is involved with something like Sasha going into a classroom. They seem to forget the "former" part and are outraged as if she went in there and started to elaborating on her career.

Same with the public outcry of it. I have a strong suspicion pornography is probably the most common skeleton in everyone's closets; they don't make jokes about deleting your history when you die for nothing. It's also not a billion dollar industry for nothing.

 

[Liquid]

I'm just pointing out how completely ingrained it is in our language, in our choices of examples, in our assumptions

I even think the term "adult film" constitutes the bias you're talking about. It's a euphemism as though the word porn is somehow smutty or dirty. Pornography literally means "an illustration of prostitution" with the porn bit specifically coming from the Greek for prostitute and there's nothing wrong with prostitution.

And another thing... apparently I'm not done yet...

We all know who this person is. We've all seen her films. We've all seen lots of adult actresses in a lot of films. Ok not everyone, but many of us have. These people reach so many, and they entertain and innovate in ways that are quite challenging in many respects. Why must we fail to recognize these people. Why do we openly acknowledge our favorite football stars or how hot we think the latest bombshell actress is (like... Megan Fox for example), and yet we can't acknowledge how fantastic someone like Sasha Grey is - despite everyone in the room knowing who she is, many of them having a profound fondness for her work.

It's really staggering how many people these women reach, and the entertainment they provide, and we treat them like second class citizens for it.

It is one of those things, isn't it? You take it as read that most people probably watch porn. It's something most people do but it's not a topic that is considered acceptable to talk about except perhaps with very close friends.

I would imagine it hard to talk about porn or a particular porn video in a scholarly manner out of embarrassment. I can admit that I'd be slightly embarrassed to but not incapable. But I'm equally aware that the taboo about it is strange given that it is a victimless, pleasurable activity enjoyed by a large supermajority of the population.

As for the original story I posted in the Funny News thread, yeah it tickled me. The indignity of people making hot air out of someone reading to underprivileged kids because she happens to be a pornstar. Or ex-pornstar, I don't know much about her.

It would be easy to say that "I wouldn't judge a pornstar" having not met one as far as I know but I'd like to think that that would be true. They're earning a living like anyone else. Or trying to. Whatever floats your consentual boat.

Would I go to a sex convention to meet my favourite pornstar and get an autograph? Nah. Would I treat someone like a normal person if I met one? Sure. In fact, I'd probably quite enjoy asking a few questions like you do about most people's jobs.

I have a strong suspicion pornography is probably the most common skeleton in everyone's closets

Definitely. Either that or picking your nose.

 

[Imari]

I would imagine it hard to talk about porn or a particular porn video in a scholarly manner out of embarrassment.

People who work around porn do, but yes I think most average folks find it very difficult to talk about with a straight face. It's just part of western culture that sex is somehow "dirty". Which is a shame, because it's legitimately good fun. Participating in it, looking at it, thinking about it, all great hobbies.

 

[FoolKiller]

If that's done in real time, say over the internet with someone putting on a live "show" for viewers, that's basically prostitution. Someone on one side provides input to an input device, the person on the other side feels it simulated through the output device. The only thing different between that and prostitution is an inability to get STDs.

It's called teledildonics and it is a thing. I saw some being sold on Touch of Modern once. Only once though.

She deserves admiration for shooting milk out of her butthole while wearing a pig snout with a guy's foot in her mouth. Now that's innovative!

Let's see you do it.

Seriously though, I heard her in an interview on a podcast and she said that she's basically done everything that can legally be done in porn.

 

[Danoff]

What's wrong with being an alcoholic? And no, someone that ceases being an alcoholic has not automatically acknowledged a problem. For some it's just simply the choice of a lifestyle change. Why the stigma perpetuation?

Even just being an "alcoholic" is a recognition of a problem. People who intentionally maintain sobriety following alcoholism are doing so out of a recognition of the problem of alcoholism. Drinking is a lifestyle choice, and not drinking can be a lifestyle change. Alcoholism is an addiction to drinking which is causing unhealthy physiological or psychological results.

So no, it's not the same.

To be honest, I think this one is just as much on you as anyone else here, @Danoff. We push, pull, and prod at every topic that comes to hand, and we make jokes where there's jokes to be made. I see people doing the same thing here, but you seem to be seeing something out of character, where it's not. I think that you're over correcting, and defeating your own principles somewhat, in the process.

I know what you're getting at. People make jokes and poke fun and prod at various sensitive topics, and it's not necessarily an indication of an underlying stigma. In this case, I believe it is. I saw a consistent face of outward acceptance with undertones of disapproval from people who I felt were not even trying to do so. What I was seeing, and maybe I'm wrong, is not people who disapprove, but people who have bought into a wider disapproval through choice of language... tacitly. In a sense, it's almost Orwellian speech.

It's a bit like this.....

Why shouldn't it? Perception is reality in the entertainment industry. Art is subjective. Make what is considered a crap film and you'll suffer the consequences. Type cast yourself and you'll suffer the consequences. It's often just equality at play in stigmatising porn actors.

It's a fair point that porn stars often produce a few bad movies during their careers. That's not what this is.

I'm not railing against people refusing to hire an adult film actress for a non-adult film role. That their choice - it's up to them how they want to market their product. What I'm interested in is the subconscious social disapproval that permeates even people who do not want to disapprove.

is tantamount to exhibiting some rather meek form of political correctness.

Don't mistake this for political correctness. I'm not trying to prevent adult film actresses from being offended. I think that's probably one segment of society that's pretty hard to offend actually. I'm also not pretending to be offended on their behalf. I'm poking at issues of morality, specifically two separate issues in originating this thread.

1) Why do people feel that adult films are immoral?

So far nobody has picked up that torch on GTPlanet but I know we have a few members here who could. There are answers, of course, that are very difficult to argue against without leaving the conversation entirely. Answers like "my God tells me it is". That pretty much takes the discussion right out of this thread.

2) Why do people who do not feel that adult films are immoral use terms that suggest that they feel otherwise?

This one fascinates me. It's accidentally borrowed morality based on words that people are used to hearing surrounding the discussion. I'm the guy that has lengthy conversations about why the word "berth" is used in conjunction with a playoff spot being secured by a sports team and shipping and nowhere in between. Nobody thinks twice about why they personally adopt this very specific word used in this very specific context when lots of other words would do. You hear it, you use it.

In this case, our very language regarding adult films (and as one person pointed out perhaps even the phrase "adult film" itself, although I think that's an decent description) has built-in biases, and we use it because we're used to hearing it. We choose these words because they're the words we're used to hearing. Does that mean we adopt the underlying meaning? Or are we just going through the motions. I find these sorts of psychological questions fascinating.

She deserves admiration for shooting milk out of her butthole while wearing a pig snout with a guy's foot in her mouth. Now that's innovative!

People also call some of today's music art. /shrug.

If that's getting people off, and it's not something that has been done before, it's innovative. One of my favorite adult film actresses had a tagline on her website... "The inventor of [censored]". She knew she had created a technique in adult films, a technique that nobody before her had championed. I had no doubt that this technique was hers, and that it was being copied by other talented members of the adult film community (because I saw it copied). Few people care in that genre whether you're the person who came up with the technique, but she was right to put it on her website because I kinda did care.

To be honest, the technique in question was not really my thing, but I liked that she recognized that she had created something.

It's called teledildonics and it is a thing. I saw some being sold on Touch of Modern once. Only once though.

I find the whole thing fascinating from the perspective of the questions that it brings up. Like what exactly constitutes prostitution, and what exactly constitutes cheating. The latter of course is a personal question that lots of people will draw at different places. The former, though, is one our government has to answer and I hope will ultimately spark the question of why we ban prostitution at all. It may even have the ability to sanitize the prostitution market.

 

[FoolKiller]

I find the whole thing fascinating from the perspective of the questions that it brings up. Like what exactly constitutes prostitution, and what exactly constitutes cheating. The latter of course is a personal question that lots of people will draw at different places. The former, though, is one our government has to answer and I hope will ultimately spark the question of why we ban prostitution at all. It may even have the ability to sanitize the prostitution market.

Currently, any decent lawyer can get a prostitution charge tossed out for that.

It is hard to say though, because any legal definition I find could easily include pornography. I think it would come down to whether or not simulated sex acts are considered the same as in-person sex acts. I do believe that current chat sites have set a precedent for this difference though.

 

[Imari]

1) Why do people feel that adult films are immoral?

So far nobody has picked up that torch on GTPlanet but I know we have a few members here who could. There are answers, of course, that are very difficult to argue against without leaving the conversation entirely. Answers like "my God tells me it is". That pretty much takes the discussion right out of this thread.

To be honest, "because God said so" probably isn't far from the mark.

Western culture is still very much based around the Christian ideals that it grew from, sometimes more so than others. Once upon a time it made sense (sort of) to stigmatise promiscuity to mitigate sexual disease and promote stable families. In modern times it makes a lot less sense, but a lot of things that are associated with sex or promiscuity still fall prey to the same cultural disapproval.

That's my take on it anyway. You can see similar things in other cultures where their perception of sex and sex products is in large part based upon their cultural heritage, which is often mostly derived from a religion.

I confess that I too find it very interesting what some things reveal about certain groups or cultures.

 

[sumbrownkid]

I always thought she was overrated.

But she is a decent human being.

 

[LeMansAid]

It's a fair point that porn stars often produce a few bad movies during their careers. That's not what this is.

I was pointing more towards doing porn at all being equivalent to doing a crap "normal" film. It's not a sin, but a "sin", that'll likely need overcoming. Public perception may well be that action movie stars lack in brain power, and artistic ability and integrity. A change of direction could easily see them battling against that stigma. So what? That's the world of perception is reality. I had come across Sasha Grey's name somewhere along the line, but really don't know about her style, or whatever thing she had/has going on. She would have to be something extraordinary to be anything other than merely the least of many "evils". Porn serves it's purpose for sure, but it's crap on pretty much every other level.

Call it a sin to recover from, or a "sin" to recover from - either way, I just don't care about making up a gap perceived via a certain individual's subjectivity, pertaining to something that depends so comprehensively on each other individual's subjectivity. I'm not about to laud the validity of Dolf Lundgren and his 160 IQ brain because people have sold him short for being in action movies. They were his choices amidst the world of entertainment, just like Sasha Grey's choices were/are.

Oh, and that link reveals a terrible definition of alcoholism - "unable to live a normal and healthy life"? Superfluous nonsense. It's an addiction to alcohol, that's it. That addiction though can be on, and be seen on, different levels. I've known plenty of alcoholics in my time, and some of them are/were genuinely addicted in a micro sense, but not in a macro sense. Same can apply to cigarette smokers. But regardless of that, even just that definition is enough to show us that there's an ingrained and ill-fitting stigma attached to alcoholism. Alcoholics can absolutely have above average health, and very much live what would be considered a normal life.

Anyway, to some extent at least, I think you've placed a filter on the topic of porn to counter the filter you've observed others using, but haven't removed it when other others have had no filter in play at all. There's nothing wrong with the existence of porn, but it's lurid. It's lurid in the sense that it's a one-trick-pony featuring a endless cavalcade of one-trick-ponies. They made they're bed......

 

[Sprite]

My opinion (for what it's worth) is... She used to do adult films and now she's doing charity work. It's not like Hitler giving out lollipops at bar mitzvah's is it.

I personally don't see the issue. Now if she was a child abuser or a hardline religious nut teaching science then I'm sure it would irk me a tad.

She's probably got more life experience than most teachers and could advise (older kids that is) the pitfalls which lead to the porn industry.

 

[ryzno]

The genre of porn she did, has no morals. Has she found something better to do with her time? Yes. That's all I have to say.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The genre of porn she did, has no morals.

Interesting. How would you describe (in AUP-friendly terms!) the genre?

Are there genres which do have morals, and if so which?

 

[ryzno]

Interesting. How would you describe (in AUP-friendly terms!) the genre?

Are there genres which do have morals, and if so which?

That just makes it so much easier! /s
The beginning of her career was hardcore. But some of her later scenes seemed abusive and demeaning to women. (being spit on and slapped, etc...). Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with anal.
But I'm a little more traditional, Megan Martinez comes to mind I LOVE Latinas.

As far as porn overall being moral. I don't really think it is. You(she) threw some of your morals out the window as soon as you show your body for money(can't figure out how to word this correctly). Does that mean she should be shamed for it, no. She signed up for it, she did what she had to do to get by.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't she been retired for a while now? I remember her over a decade ago.