The penalty system can't be all bad now. What good has penalties brought to Gran Turismo Sport?

golfer07840
I think if they implemented mechanical damage of some sort (heck, it is an option in the custom races!), then I think we'd get a lot more clean races.
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Punishing bad drivers by making their cars drive worse and then letting them loose on the track... that sounds like a bad idea to me. Additionally, from a design perspective it's another balancing variable that they need to account for.

I do agree though that the average recovery time of the victim versus the penalty of the attacker would be a minimum metric to observe when balancing these issues.
 
BallPtPenTheif
Punishing bad drivers by making their cars drive worse and then letting them loose on the track... that sounds like a bad idea to me. Additionally, from a design perspective it's another balancing variable that they need to account for.

I do agree though that the average recovery time of the victim versus the penalty of the attacker would be a minimum metric to observe when balancing these issues.
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I get what you're saying, however, I have noticed, that if I have significant mechanical damage that I can't drive as fast, and therefore these dirty drivers would simply be taking up the rear, or even better, just quit.
 
I play full damage lobbies by preference (same on Project Cars).
Can result in frustration when you end up with a crippled car due to someone else’s stupidity (so is no better than getting unjustified time penalty, in this sense).
HOWEVER, races under full damage result in much cleaner driving than those with penalties. Dirty players know that they can scrub off a couple-second penalty without much impact on their race result. But a busted car means race-over or a long pit stop for repair.
 
Andrew Wood
I play full damage lobbies by preference (same on Project Cars).
Can result in frustration when you end up with a crippled car due to someone else’s stupidity (so is no better than getting unjustified time penalty, in this sense).
HOWEVER, races under full damage result in much cleaner driving than those with penalties. Dirty players know that they can scrub off a couple-second penalty without much impact on their race result. But a busted car means race-over or a long pit stop for repair.
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How does it deal with nudging / pushing people off? Is the damage very sensitive or do you simply get a different style of dirty driving? In SR.S it's already leaning to the more subtle yet far more damaging for the victim style of dirty driving. It would maybe solve the T1 dive bombs.
 
fastone371
I just dont understand these guys that will try to go thru a chicane with only 2 feet of overlap, what do they think they may possibly gain other than causing a wreck that will get both cars penalties?
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My theory is that this is the result of casuals having decades of experiences on single player racing games,from Gran Turismo 1 to 6 you could bump AI cars and use them as brakes and nothing would happen same goes for Forza and other racing games and you can see that same attitude of "use the car in front as brakes/take him off the road" in online public lobbies nowadays

My other theory is that the world is full of A-holes
 
Yeah, could be. Don't any of these guys try to compete against the AI and not ram them all off of the track, anyone can smash-pass then whine about how easy the game is? I cant be the only one that tries to race the AI clean, if you race "fair" or "proper" against the AI it helps to make the races a little more competitive. In fact I would go as far to say racing the AI clean can be a handful in some car/track combos, quite difficult to win. I suppose we are also dealing a large percentage of people that you couldn't even call half smart on their best days. :lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
Alpha Cipher
I was about to joke that there might be people who do think they can do that because the AI allows them to do so offline, but if you think about it this might actually be a legitimate reason

All we have are these etiquette videos so far, and before we can watch them all we can do is GT League and Arcade, really. GTPers aside, I'm pretty sure most of the people who venture into Sport mode didn't really buy GTS for it, but rather are casual players who decided to join in the fray. Before Sport mode they were probably racing against all these AI that are so slow through T1 L1 you can literally make 10 positions out of it. This could become a habit, and habits die hard. I could say the same to people who also bought past iterations of the game but only played offline, and decided to go online only after GTS

While the penalty system itself does needs some fixing, maybe improving the AI can contribute to lessen the problem by eliminating the possibility of casual players from developing this habit
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Maybe they should turn damage on for the player and not the AI cars, maybe even have adjustable level AI like Forza for the guys that cant beat the AI without crash-passing. That would teach people not to hit other cars.
 
fastone371
Yeah, could be. Don't any of these guys try to compete against the AI and not ram them all off of the track, anyone can smash-pass then whine about how easy the game is?I suppose we are also dealing a large percentage of people that you couldn't even call half smart on their best days. :lol::lol::lol::lol:
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The majority of people who buy racing games are casuals, and they have no idea what the hell F.I.A is or what are the rules of motorsport,they watched movies with car chases and had experience in Mario Kart,so when a racing game tells them "analyse the situation before you overtake" they think "I HAVE TO OVERTAKE HIM NOW NOW BUMP HIM OFF THE ROAD I DID THIS IN MARIO KART I WATCHED CAR MOVIES I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING"
But like i said before there is also the possibility they know the rules and do the wrong thing anyway because they like being A-Holes.
 
golfer07840
I get what you're saying, however, I have noticed, that if I have significant mechanical damage that I can't drive as fast, and therefore these dirty drivers would simply be taking up the rear, or even better, just quit.
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Usually my steering alignment is screwed up first. I'd hate to be racing against someone with crooked steering.
 
fastone371
Yeah, could be. Don't any of these guys try to compete against the AI and not ram them all off of the track, anyone can smash-pass then whine about how easy the game is? I cant be the only one that tries to race the AI clean, if you race "fair" or "proper" against the AI it helps to make the races a little more competitive. In fact I would go as far to say racing the AI clean can be a handful in some car/track combos, quite difficult to win. I suppose we are also dealing a large percentage of people that you couldn't even call half smart on their best days. :lol::lol::lol::lol:
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I find on the Professional setting and starting from somewhere in the back and trying to race as clean as possible, is actually pretty challenging.
 
Crazy Taylor
I don't care what the haters on here say. A (decent) penalty system is better than no penalty system.
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Too bad they are having such a hard time developing a decent penalty system then. Something is broken when you are on the racing line at racing speed when you get hit and pushed off track and you get a time penalty then the offender gets nothing, maybe even a clean race bonus at the end. I have a hard time calling that a "decent" penalty system.
 
fastone371
Too bad they are having such a hard time developing a decent penalty system then. Something is broken when you are on the racing line at racing speed when you get hit and pushed off track and you get a time penalty then the offender gets nothing, maybe even a clean race bonus at the end. I have a hard time calling that a "decent" penalty system.
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Who says they aren't improving on it? It is a decent penalty system, its the people who we race with that is the problem. PD are probably always at work on it choppinv and changing.
 
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Crazy Taylor
Who says they aren't improving on it? It is a decent penalty system, its the people who we race with that is the problem. PD are probably always at work on it choppinv and changing.
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I hope it gets better some day. I dont think you can deny it's a broken system, penalties based on driver level, at least PD assuming the higher level driver deserves some or even the lions share of the penalty is fundamentally flawed.
 
The only good thing that penalties have brought on is that serious racers may think twice about causing a collision.

But in it's current form it isn't stopping people from bumping and cheating their way to the top or worse- people deliberetly losing SR and DR to lower ranks just for wins.

That's the biggest issue plaguing the game at the moment imho. Guys who will shave DR/SR to stay in lower leagues because they want to win so bad. It's despicable. It's also killed and will continue killing the game for newbies..

There needs to be a system implemented that will prevent people from obtaing a certain rank and then tanking it because they can't compete, don't want to work as hard for wins, feel like being mischievous, or whatever the reason may be.

It's a much bigger issue then most people would want to believe or admit. And the effect that it's had has certainly had an effect on the overall playerbase. I can't count the amount of times I've been shoved off the track when overtaking 1st. Maybe something like more then 3-5 second penalties in 1st and the win auto goes to 2nd... Or something. Anything!!

I'd like to see damage implemented to the CAUSER of accidents too.

In other words: there needs to be something in place that rewards clean drivers and driving more then relying on a single penalty system alone... Something that would not only decrease the overall load on the penalty system itself, but something that may resolve some of the bogus penalties as well.
 
Hoopzah
In other words: there needs to be something in place that rewards clean drivers and driving more then relying on a single penalty system alone...
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Could larger monetary payouts for clean racing help? The bonuses are already pretty hefty but the game still feels like a massive grind to get the more expensive vehicles, so maybe giving people more money for clean racing online would help both situations?
 
The main thing missing from PD's penalty system is any attempt to enforce returning a position. PC2 has this. In GTS, divebomb a car, push him off, ruin his race, you get a penalty that rarely adds up to the hit car passing you.

There'd be a LOT less contact if any time it happened and you gained a position, you were immediately forced to return position or DQ'd. This is basically how clean online rooms did it in GT6. Take away the advantage from contact, drivers learn less aggressive passing techniques like over/unders.

The other thing that would help is an inability to turn off penalties in ANY gameplay mode. Force players even offline to get used to racing clean, that's going to translate to better online racing. Mind you, this would probably decimate GT's player base, LOL.

PD missed an opportunity by not setting some mandatory clean racing challenges after the mandatory safety video watching, before players are allowed online. But again, there goes 70% of GT's player base!

If there's a choice between PD helping create a cleaner online community and their profits, guess how much PD give a rats about clean racing?!
 
fastone371
I hope it gets better some day. I dont think you can deny it's a broken system, penalties based on driver level, at least PD assuming the higher level driver deserves some or even the lions share of the penalty is fundamentally flawed.
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This is IMO the biggest problem with the penalty system. Penalties need to be the same for everyone. It makes absolutely no sense to let lower ranked players get away with more contact and not get penalized. Especially when the person getting hit receives a penalty. If they want to promote clean racing, this is not the way to go about it.
 
In fact, it needs the reverse. Heavier penalties for the less skilled, to incentivize learning clean passing techniques.

Then again, there goes 70% of the player base again, LOL
 

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