The plot thickens, McLaren still under threat

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From SkySports

Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso's future with McLaren Mercedes could yet be in jeopardy after Formula One's governing body (FIA) announced it would refer the 'spy case' against the team to its court of appeal.

The British team were found guilty of breaching the international sporting code by being in possession of confidential information from rival team Ferrari.

But the World Motorsport Council (WMSC) ruled there was insufficient evidence to prove the team gained a competitive edge from the documents, and so no punishment was handed out.

That decision met with outrage from Ferrari, and FIA president Max Mosley has decided he will appeal the ruling.

Mosley wrote in a letter to Automobile Club of Italy (ACI) president Luigi Macaluso: "I am sending this case to the FIA's court of appeal so it can hear Ferrari's side, as well as McLaren's or any other team which wants to be heard, to determine whether FIA's original decision was appropriate."

The FIA warned McLaren Mercedes over the consequences of any future breaches of the sporting code, for which the punishment could be their ejection from the 2007 and 2008 seasons.
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Hm, I wonder if idiot Mosley would've done the same had Ferrari just been quiet about the ruling...
 
<_Spike_>
Hm, I wonder if idiot Mosley would've done the same had Ferrari just been quiet about the ruling...
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Well, no, because if Ferrari (or any team for that matter) hadn't called for an appeal there wouldn't hvae been any reason to appeal it.
 
But it's been widely speculated since forever that Ferrari is one of the biggest contributors to Max Mosley and Co. There was an interview about 2-3 years ago where although he never confirmed it, he neither denied that Ferrari had made numerous contributions to him and his position in the FIA.
 
-Diego-
But it's been widely speculated since forever that Ferrari is one of the biggest contributors to Max Mosley and Co. There was an interview about 2-3 years ago where although he never confirmed it, he neither denied that Ferrari had made numerous contributions to him and his position in the FIA.
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I understand the allegations and suppositions. That was not my point. My point was that if no one objected or called for an appeal (be it Ferrari, Toyota, or even Spyker) then an appeal wouldn't have occurred. His point about Mosley not doing the same had Ferrari not called for appeal due to potential favoring of Ferrari doesn't apply in this case because Ferrari was the only team that cared besides McLaren, so if Ferrari hadn't appealed no one else would have, so it wouldn't have been appealed regardless of preferential treatment.
You can't say the only reason this is being appealed is because of Ferrari crying foul because if Ferrari didn't no one else would have, so of course Mosley wouldn't have considered appealing it if no teams at all cried foul.
 
Redgodzila
It nevers ceases to amaze me how inventive Ferrari are in trying to win a championship 💡
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Case closed,Ferrari is trying to screw McLaren out of their constructors championship lead.....
 
mnm_bmx
Case closed,Ferrari is trying to screw McLaren out of their constructors championship lead.....
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I don't think it's that extreme. But Ferrari has always been a team that acts like the rules don't apply to them, but when some other team is under threat, they'll go to the full extent to make sure they're reprimanded. Remember the felxible wings issue at the beginning of the season (or was it last season?). When the FIA banned them, they just said something like "we're sorry, it never said those exact wings were prohibited," although the rules clearly stated that no flexible wings were allowed.

Look at Minardi about 2-3 years ago, when they didn't have enough money to build a new car and could only race the older one if all other teams agreed to it... who didn't agree? And only did at the last second... Minardi didn't even get a chance to test/setup the cars for that race.

I'm sure there've been other instances.
 
Yeah,its as if Ferrari are not the one who was cheating and blame others who are trying to copying them or did something illegal and having an advantage against them.McLaren had nothing to do with the documents (only Coughlan know it) and when Ferrari found out about it they quickly blame McLaren of cheating when they look like the better team.I don't know if any of the documents had implemented their car in any way and i know its against the rules and everything,but why Ferrari is intended to blame them and not any other team?Like why Ferrari cannot leave everyone alone?
 
IMO, a member of the Ferrari team passed on information, that would be a breach of conduct. If McLaren are to be punished as a team for one idiot and his missus' actions, Ferrari should also be punished as a team for one idiot's actions even though they are the ones who "haven't gained anything"

And I doubt this will surprise anyone...

Ferrari have lauded the FIA for their "sensible" decision to refer the Stepneygate affair to the International Court of Appeal.

The Italian Automobile Federati president Luigi Macaluso sent a letter to the president of the sport's governing body Max Mosley requesting that the 'spy' saga goes to the Court of Appeal.

Mosley has agreed to the request despite the World Motorsport Council's verdict which found McLaren not guilty.

The Italian team have welcomed Mosley's decision.

"Ferrari finds the decision of the FIA President to be sensible," said a Ferrari spokesman.

"The FIA has correctly found that Ferrari, as interested party, must enjoy all the rights of a party in a trial, which is what didn't happen in the WMSC hearing."

An FIA spokesman said the hearing was likely to be in Paris at the end of August.
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Here's an oddball conspiracy theory for you. Ferrari deliberately passed the information to McLaren with the intention of getting McLaren sanctioned?
 
The plot thickens again, as McLaren hit back......

popcorn.gif
 
Dennis has a point. After all, Ferrari's objection to the original verdict was a pretty solid admission that they were attempting to compete with a car they knew was illegal. Also, Ferrari are as much responsible for the actions of their team member (Stepney) as McLaren are for the actions of Coughlan.

...Assuming Stepney is guilty, of course. He's still claiming innocence.

I wonder what other information, if any, was in the document, or if it was all about the floor and wing? If it was only about illegal or controversial parts, then whistle blowing makes more sense. If there was more info in there, and Dennis has, in his latest statement, admitted that he knew about the data sharing at least back in April, then I must admit I found the verdict a bit light.

Dennis's statement also seems to confirm Ferrari's accusation that the info was used by McLaren to get the Ferrari bits banned.
 
It does seem strange that Ferrari seem to be using the alleged fact that McLaren used the info to realise the Ferrari car had illegal parts on it as a defence. It's like saying they cheated to find out we were cheating????
 
Alfaholic
I wonder what other information, if any, was in the document, or if it was all about the floor and wing? If it was only about illegal or controversial parts, then whistle blowing makes more sense. If there was more info in there, and Dennis has, in his latest statement, admitted that he knew about the data sharing at least back in April, then I must admit I found the verdict a bit light.
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I kind of doubt that there could be 780 pages just about the floor and the wing, but we will probably never know.
 
This is a good read about the complexity of this BBC
It's still all in the air. On the one hand after Dennis' recent letter it suggests Ferrari wanted Stepney out because he told McLaren about their new illegal car (which they would have almost certainly got away with if he hadn't) or that there was a relationship with Stepney and getting the data on the Ferrari car was the next step.
Take your choice.
 
I have found a copy of one of the pages!! Maybe the conspiracy therorist are right!

Ferrari Teknikal stuff
Engin
Tha engin goes at tha back. It has 8 round things taht goes up and down a bunch of times really really fast.
ferarriteknikaldrawiniv8.jpg
 
Well. The Berliner Zeitung published a letter explaining why Ferrari shouldn't have expected McLaren to be actually punished in the first place (apart from a monetary fine) - just like F1 wouldn't be F1 without Ferrari, it wouldn't be F1 without McLaren. Who would actually cheer for a group which got their main opponent banned, in order to regain the lead and win by a huge margin? They can't expect that, just like McLaren wouldn't expect Ferrari to get punished, assuming the roles were reversed.
 

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