Thread about my Holden Ute- Finally Lowered!

nd 4 holden spd

nd 4 holden spd

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So I own a VR Commodore Ute, 3.8L Buick V6, making 130kw and 300Nm stock. It is mated to a 5spd manual. Things are going OK, I need a new water pump then she's getting dropped to a more performance orientated height. (The tax cheque is coming!).;)
I was actually kind of wondering, what does a rear control arm do, and how does having harder bushes for it help performance?
 
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nd 4 holden spd
I was thinking a power chip and sports exhaust with extractors from Lukey but then if I went supercharged I suppose I'd have to swap over the extractors (also called headers) to tuned length ones, in the short run. Maybe a Gem Gold Star bottom end later in life. What can you recommend in a way of rockers, valvetrain in general, and pushrods?
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Well chip and exhaust is pretty cheap. But the gains arent too big unless your car is boosted. At least the exhaust is a must have if you're thinking of a supercharger. Im not sure the compression on your engine but Im assuming its rather high and a supercharger would be your best bet. It would probably be the best bang for the buck with about a 50% horsepower bump up.

Have you looked into cams? Those can be a nice little addition if you keep it all motor. Suspension also makes a nice upgrade if you are looking for a tighter feel.
 
Well, for suspension I'm just looking at lowering it with King Springs and Monroe GT Gas shockies, anything else I should consider? I'll also get a strut tower brace one day. If I got a camshaft it'd have to be a relatively mild one so I don't chew much fuel.
My brother also tells me turbos are harder in internals so that's another reason I'd go supercharger, plus the whole "boost from the word idle". If I got high ratio rockers that would be bad for supercharging wouldn't it?

Edit: Oh yes, and MSD ignition coils are on the list too. Every little thing counts!
 
nd 4 holden spd
Well, for suspension I'm just looking at lowering it with King Springs and Monroe GT Gas shockies, anything else I should consider? I'll also get a strut tower brace one day. If I got a camshaft it'd have to be a relatively mild one so I don't chew much fuel.
My brother also tells me turbos are harder in internals so that's another reason I'd go supercharger, plus the whole "boost from the word idle". If I got high ratio rockers that would be bad for supercharging wouldn't it?

Edit: Oh yes, and MSD ignition coils are on the list too. Every little thing counts!
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On the suspension Id do sway bars before the strut bar. They really tighten it up. Superchargers run on relatively low boost (8-12) This is alot better on a car that may have higher compression (9:1 and up). You really need to do a lot of bottomend work to get it ready for a good sized turbo.
 
Since its a GM engine, a lot can be done just by freeing up the airflow. The intake and exhaust tends to be very restrictive with most of their vehicles, so simple modifications may help. Furthermore, given the overall flexibility of the 3800, supercharging would be an easy option (given that it came from the factory that way here in the US).

That being said, I'd go with the KISS rules and just do an intake/exhaust, and maybe see if you can get an ECU programmer. I imagine that there is a good amount of power that can come out with minimal modification.
 
There is, I drove my brother's for the first time, not flat-out but I didn't need to. Crap that thing is fast and just effortless performance with only a few grand maybe less spent on it.
So yes, I've free'd up the intake a little/a lot with an over-the-radiator cold air intake already, and a K&N Air Filter does a nice little trick. Exhaust will help a lot when I get it. First I think is a power chip, not a full computer, just for price. Then the exhaust, then MSD Ignition Coils. What do you think?
 
I think the MSD stuff is a bit overboard. You havent done enough to the engine to really need it. The stock bits can keep up fine with the small stuff. Do the suspension stuff...it will feel like a different car (in a good way).
 
Lowering it is the next thing I'm doing overall, I was talking of the order of engine things I'll be doing before.
Do all cars come out with sway bars as stock? If not, mine has factory say bars already.

Overboard or not, MSD makes power gains.
 
Keep in mind that a supercharger can be just as tough on the engine as a turbo. I'm not sure how supercharged 3800's compare internally to their naturaly aspirated cousins, if they even differ all. Your best bet may be to find a Series II L67 3800 (240hp and 280 ft lbs of torque) which is already supercharged from the factory and just swap in the whole thing. A quick check on wikipedia shows that they came in some '95-'04 Commodores and Statesmans. I would think that it would be a pretty straighforward swap and should be a pretty bulletproof option, considering they were designed to be supercharged from the beginning. I'd look into this, rather than going to the trouble of building up the engine you already have. My dad's Buick Riviera has an L67 and it it's a pretty stout engine. It feels almost as powerful as the TPI 5.7 in my car.

By power chip, do you mean you're going to have it professionaly tuned, or your going to buy a pre-tuned chip?

When you lower it, do you want it to handle good, or do you want it to just look cool? When you just put lowering springs on it, depending on how dramatic the drop is, it could potentially throw off the suspension geometry. Not to mention it will kill your new shocks if they're not designed for lowered vehicles. I'd stay away from Monroe shocks and get some good Bilstein's, Koni's, or Tokico's, etc. Expensive, yes, but well worth the cost. Don't forget to replace all the rubber bushings underneath the car too. By now, they're probably all worn out. You can uprade to polyurethane bushings for even more tightness.

EDIT:The NA 3800 has a compression ration of 9.4:1 and the supercharged version has 8.5:1. One can't help but think there are more differences inside as well to support the boost from the supercharger. More reason to swap in an L67, unless you really want to tear down the engine you already have.
 
Supercharging is unlikely, I just want to have it as an option, plus if I did an engine swap it'd be for an Alloytec, not an L67. Seriously, it's easy to make more power aspirated for cheap than an L67.

As far as I know Monroe make some of the best bang-for-buck shockies out there. It'd be performance for lowering it, but looks are the bonus. 30mm will be how much I lower it, or 1.5inches, whatever they ask for. But you should check how high it is, bigger pic in my sig.
The Monroe shocks will be suited for a lowered vehicle. I need that device that winds the diff back to centre because of the way the rear suspension is set up.

Are there any other engine mods you can think of that will be relatively cheap and boost power in the short term?

Almost forgot, my brother has a tuned ECU, he's been through it all, so I can get a pre-tuned to run pretty much what he has and it will work well, believe me.

Edit: What about a better throttle body, will that be any good?
 
Get a cold air intake (not just an intake), headers, a full exhaust system (not just a muffler), and a performance cat. If you want the best gains you have to do all of these not just one or two. After that get a lightweight set of rims with really good tires, the lighter the rim the more performance you will get.

MSD ignitions are supposed to be good, the guys on the S10forum swore by them. Also look at getting better plugs and thick wires.
 
Joey D
Get a cold air intake (not just an intake), headers, a full exhaust system (not just a muffler), and a performance cat. If you want the best gains you have to do all of these not just one or two. After that get a lightweight set of rims with really good tires, the lighter the rim the more performance you will get.

MSD ignitions are supposed to be good, the guys on the S10forum swore by them. Also look at getting better plugs and thick wires.
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You and I are on the same level mate. I already have an OTR CAI, I hate cars with partial exhausts, they sound crap, especially in my engine, so the whole shibang is what I intend on getting, I also have iridium plugs and Top Gun ignition leads already. I never thought that a lightweight rim would actually help acceleration, but it makes sense, less weight to move. Unfortunately that would be something a long way away because I just couldn't possibly afford rims and new tyres any time in the near future. At last the current ones look pretty tough :sly: I might look at the costs of an MSD Ignition Coil pack after I get the suspension and power chip and exhaust done. 👍
 
A larger throttle body is only going to give you gains if your stock one is causing a bottle neck in your engine. More than likely this isn't the case with yours. It would be similar to putting an 850 cfm carb on top of an otherwise stock 5.0 V8 engine. It's not necessary and will more than likely kill your throttle response. If the rest of your engine isn't modifed, then I wouldn't waste my money on one. If down the road you do an intake manifold, heads, cam, full exhaust, etc then it would be time to go with a larger throttle body.

Have you thought about changing your rear end gears? That would give you a noticeable gain in acceleration, but with some loss of your top speed. Does your ute have a limited slip?
 
Being a Ute it came with a steeper diff than a sedan, it might have had LSD when it was stock, now we have trouble telling, because they wear off so to speak. The gears are fine really otherwise.
 
Huzzah, I get a tax cheque in about a month and intend on spending it to lower my Ute.:D Now I've got a rough plan on what I should do to make my Ute handle better. First I will explain the general handling issues of a Ute. A Ute has a light rear end because it's nothing but empty space back there, and the front is heavier because of extra support needed to make the body rigid. Basically, the front is much heavier than the back. This means that when pushed to the limit, the car will tend to understeer and understeer until you give it too much throttle or make a violent turn of the wheel in which case the rear will swing out because there's not much weight over the rear wheels keeping them on the road.
So what I want to do is get fairly stiff front springs to support the front weight, and get softer by comparison (but probably still sort of hard so the payload capacity doesn't go all the way down the drain, but this isn't as important). Or maybe just generally soft-ish rear springs so this way more weight will transfer onto the rear axle. I'll be doing this with Monroe GT Gas shock absorbers (fairly capable, and great bang for the buck. No need to go overboard on spending because I can't afford it and being a Ute it will never be perfect) and King Springs Pro Sport springs. (Or at least I hope, we'll see what budget allows).
Then to try and keep even more weight off the front and on the rear while cornering without hurting weight transfer under acceleration I was thinking I should get a strong stabiliser (anti-roll bar) in the rear.
The other thing is I don't want the wheel guard any lower than the top of the wheel. About level seems right to me and would look good while still capable of performing.
What do you guys think? Is this a good plan and is it do-able without going overboard on price? (I can't afford the anti-roll bar yet, later down the track). I also wondered if companies like King Springs would offer services that involve helping the customer choose which spring is right for them? (Maybe only Aussies would know that being an Aussie company.)
 
Does the Ute have leaf springs for it's rear suspension? If so just save you money and get a link set up for it if you want handling.
 
Joey D
Does the Ute have leaf springs for it's rear suspension? If so just save you money and get a link set up for it if you want handling.
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Nope, coil springs. Ford Utes still use leaf springs for payload capabilities, but frankly if you're buying a Commodore Ute you don't care much about payload.;)
 
Just remember if you do any form of suspension work you will need to get everything aligned again. When I lowered my Blazer I had a local shop put the truck on a rack and laser align everything to make sure I wasn't crab walking and ruining the tires. It's important to get the rear done, even though it's a bit more difficult.

I guess I think of a Ute as a pick up rather then a car with a truck bed it in. I don't really know that much a performance suspension for cars.
 
Not a power gain, but how about shedding weight (the car, not you!) if you don't mind it being a little noisier? I'm sure you could lose a great deal getting rid of interior and underbonnet sound deadening (and because it's an ute, it'd be all at the front, so making your weight distribution more even), maybe swapping the seats for racing ones? I don't know how heavy the standard pews are but I was reading an article in a UK mag from someone who saved over 40kg just swapping the front seats in a VW Lupo for racing items!
 
Joey D
Just remember if you do any form of suspension work you will need to get everything aligned again. When I lowered my Blazer I had a local shop put the truck on a rack and laser align everything to make sure I wasn't crab walking and ruining the tires. It's important to get the rear done, even though it's a bit more difficult.

I guess I think of a Ute as a pick up rather then a car with a truck bed it in. I don't really know that much a performance suspension for cars.
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Yeah I know, I even have to get the diff put back to centre after I lower it. Way the suspension is set up. I'm putting my Ute in for a service soon, I'll also be talking to him about anything I need to change/repair after/before lowering it.

homeforsummer
Not a power gain, but how about shedding weight (the car, not you!) if you don't mind it being a little noisier? I'm sure you could lose a great deal getting rid of interior and underbonnet sound deadening (and because it's an ute, it'd be all at the front, so making your weight distribution more even), maybe swapping the seats for racing ones? I don't know how heavy the standard pews are but I was reading an article in a UK mag from someone who saved over 40kg just swapping the front seats in a VW Lupo for racing items!
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The only weight shedding I'll be doing is maybe the seat thing, but what seats I get (obviously bucket seats of some kind) is undecided. My Ute is still my only car, and I want it to be nice on the inside as well. If I bought a 2nd car for track use I'd strip absolutely everything out.;)
 
Not much point in stripping out a ute I would think. Holden already did the havay parts, such the rear seat, for you... And I doubt there would be that much sound deadening in the cabin, and...what else is there you could reasonably strip?
 
slidesquad#1
Not much point in stripping out a ute I would think. Holden already did the havay parts, such the rear seat, for you... And I doubt there would be that much sound deadening in the cabin, and...what else is there you could reasonably strip?
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Seat, carpet, sound deadener (every car has it, otherwise all you'd hear is tyre noise, rattles, squeals etc.), dash, and that's about it. But then, Commodores aren't made of light and expensive materials, they're a car for the masses, and so using lighter materials like the bonnet, tailgate, panels, seats, steering wheel etc. would probably be big improvements. Then when you take into account that early model Commodores were quite light, especially for a sedan/ute, (my Ute weighs 1360kg stock), you could have a car weighing 1100kg-1200kg with quite a powerful V6 that's very responsive to mods and the car as a whole can be made to handle quite well too with the smart suspension mods (first hand experience here). (OK, maybe the handling part is just for the sedan :p ). The Commodore has loads of potential and to the un-knowing could be the ultimate sleeper at track days. That's why if I wanted a track car, Commodore would be my first and possibly only option. They're cheap, easy to maintain, great potential, spare parts everywhere in Australia, and if you're an Aussie a bit of homtown pride will accompany you everywhere you go.
I know it might not be better than a lot of cars out there, but I'm willing to bet that if done right it could give a better run for the money than most people realise simply because it's a sedan and they don't expect much. Unfortunately, too many modified Commodores you see are one of two things. A V8 drag car, or a blinged out show car.:( Not many are done up for the hard core track days, which is why that'd be a dream of mine, to do up a V6 Commodore as my track car.

Sorry about the long post, I got carried away with enthusiasm for my beloved Holdens.:D
 
I realise that they have sound deadening, but the actual amount of sound deadening needed for a ute would be a lot less than that in a sedan, so removing it wouldn't be quite as significant, would it?

And there's no way in hell you could convince me that going crazy with fibreglass panels and the like are worth the money on a daily driver.

Also, espcially in Oz and NZ, with the V8 supercars and such, I don't know if the sleeper thing applies as such. Then again, I've only seen a ute on a track in person once, at a Subaru meet, so maybe there is potential (unless that ute was representative, it got wiped by pretty much everything on the day).

I personally think that going with a V8 would make more sense, but I've read your reasons for wanting to stick with the 6, so more power to you. Just don't call the 3.8 powerful in stock form :sly:
 
slidesquad#1
I realise that they have sound deadening, but the actual amount of sound deadening needed for a ute would be a lot less than that in a sedan, so removing it wouldn't be quite as significant, would it?

And there's no way in hell you could convince me that going crazy with fibreglass panels and the like are worth the money on a daily driver.

Also, espcially in Oz and NZ, with the V8 supercars and such, I don't know if the sleeper thing applies as such. Then again, I've only seen a ute on a track in person once, at a Subaru meet, so maybe there is potential (unless that ute was representative, it got wiped by pretty much everything on the day).

I personally think that going with a V8 would make more sense, but I've read your reasons for wanting to stick with the 6, so more power to you. Just don't call the 3.8 powerful in stock form :sly:
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True on the sound deadening. I meant for a track only car with the lightweight body panels. Just remember that on track you can't have too much power, which is what V8s are good for. The V6 would have better weight distribution and be lighter in general.
Of course it's powerful.:p 300Nm on less than 1360kg is a better torque:weight ratio than most modern V6s can boast. (And the gears aren't really long either, mine's a manual. About 240km/hr would be redlining 5th I think)

JCE
  • Heads
  • Crank
  • Cam
  • Injectors

Those open up the 3800 series engines.
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Cranks are soo expensive, and cams throw efficiency down the drain. This is still my daily driver, but heads and injectors I'm interested in. What positives and negatives do they have? I know high ratio roller rockers can have an effect as good as a cam without hugely negative side effects. Seeing what my brother has done is both good and bad, I get to know what works and what doesn't without a fail in between, but I don't do much different to what he does. I want to make my car better in a straight line eventually.:sly:
 
Of course, for when you are ready to go fast in a straight line, you should have a Nos and a few type-R stickers handy.
Actually, a small nitrous shot wouldn't hurt, would it?
 
I'm going to make a second suggestion which isn't engine related but would still make you a hell of a lot quicker. Actually two :p

Firstly, is your car pretty much as it is in your avatar? If so I'd be suggesting some slightly larger diameter wheels because nothing will improve you on track like more grip...

...apart from, spending an hour with an instructor at whatever circuit you're planning to drive around, who'll help you extract the most out of what you've got. And you won't have to spend a penny on the car itself :D

As I climb back inside the box I've been thinking outside of, surely the most simple things (and cheapest)if you did fettle the motor have to be breathing? Cold air feed, filter, manifold and exhaust system? At the very least you'll sound quicker...

Oh and another thing - get to a rolling road and have someone set up your engine perfectly. You'll probably find it's running below manufacturer's quoted output anyway, so if you get them to adjust the fuelling etc you'll probably gain a bit of power that way.
 
homeforsummer
Firstly, is your car pretty much as it is in your avatar? If so I'd be suggesting some slightly larger diameter wheels because nothing will improve you on track like more grip...


Oh and another thing - get to a rolling road and have someone set up your engine perfectly. You'll probably find it's running below manufacturer's quoted output anyway, so if you get them to adjust the fuelling etc you'll probably gain a bit of power that way.
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Good call on the driving. But.

Getting better tyres would probably help more than bigger wheels. Unless you shell out the dinero for lightweight wheels, bigger=heavier=more unsprung weight=more time and effort needed from the car to spin them.

Also no 10+ year old standard car is going to be putting out the manufacturer quoted power output, unless it's just had a rebuild etc. And I'm not sure if you can adjust fuelling and the like with the standard Holden engine management. So he'd have to splurge on a new management system too.

Which might not be a bad thing actually. I've been looking at things to do to my car (when I have some money again), and it's not that uncommon to see the Evo's with the Intake/Exhaust/Extractors running ~220kw at the wheels with Link's or Power FC's. Which is pretty sweet.
 
Small, lightweight wheels will always be better then big heavy wheels. Also I wouldn't bother with Nitrous unless you plan on drag racing quite often. It's only usable power under a very limited set of conditions.
 
Joey D
Small, lightweight wheels will always be better then big heavy wheels. Also I wouldn't bother with Nitrous unless you plan on drag racing quite often. It's only usable power under a very limited set of conditions.
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And, at least in america it's illegal

Food for thought. You said you could have bought 4 VL commodores for the price og your ute, why not just buy a VL and put your money into making that a track car? I bet your ute could even pull the trailer with it on it. That'd scream "I love my Holdens!"
 

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