Throttle steering techniques?

[xmarlboromanx]

Is it possible? I only heard of it while watching a documentary with Jeremy Clarkson and he was talking about steering with the throttle. I just did a Championship race with a R32 touring car and I noticed when I'm attacking a corner about a quarter way in I'm 2/4 - 3/4 throttle then as soon as I am by the apex I give it more and more gas and the back end comes out easy now it doesn't feel like oversteer it grips nice and shoots me out of the corner. I'm just wandering some thoughts on this, or maybe some techniques?

 

[raytard]

It's totally possible, I rely on it, and you just gave an example of it without knowing it.

You usually see this with RWD cars (MR, FR, RR) that are being pushed near the limit. Typically, if a corner can be taken in 100% grip at say, 100kph, at 110kph, you'd go wide and slide off the track just because you're going too fast.

"Steering with the throttle" typically means you come in a teeny bit slow (95kph for our example) and tight on the apex (never over speed). Preferably, the entry is done very smoothly. You *could* smoothly accelerate towards the exit point, applying full throttle when appropriate, as race craft dictates. Lets say this allows you to exit at 105kph. That's not what we're here to talk about, but it's important for our example.

By applying a bit too much throttle just before the apex, the rear breaks traction while the front doesn't (a relatively high speed, low angle, drift). You use the throttle to control the orientation (angle) of the car, while following the racing line (path) with the front wheels. A bit more throttle induces more slide angle, while less will cause you to straighten out and come back to traction. The idea is that upon your exit clipping point, the vehicle kisses the curbing with the rear, front tires on the racing line, and 100% traction is regained as you go exit at full throttle. This is NOT full-opposite-lock, tire-smoking drifting. This is a very slight slide with the front wheels still turned into the turn, or possibly straight, as you exit. Opposite lock should not be needed, unless it's a quick dab to regain balance/traction at exit. You should be exiting with a bit more speed, and higher in the powerband, than if you took the corner without breaking traction at all.

You're really using the throttle to change the line you're on (more throttle=wider, less throttle=tighter) while your front wheels are at the limit. It's a technique that allows you to squeeze out every last ounce of corner exit speed.

In AWD cars, you'd balance the car on entry, hold your line, and apply enough throttle to "push" you to the exit point, exiting without lifting.

For FWD cars, it's basically the same thing, use the throttle to push the front towards the exit point.

Especially useful on a corner to a straight, or using it to pass a late braking/early-apexing opponent who must exit more slowly. Decreasing radius turns (late apex) also see an advantage. Low power cars, or ones with a turbo (where you normally would be exiting out of the boost range) see the biggest gain from throttle steering.

It's especially not useful for high powered cars that can spin the wheels at will, entering with too much speed, or linked turns (due to how much it upsets the balance.) Early apex/dual apex turns are also not prime places for this.

 

[xmarlboromanx]

Thanks for the response great read!

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

It's especially not useful for high powered cars that can spin the wheels at will, entering with too much speed, or linked turns (due to how much it upsets the balance.) Early apex/dual apex turns are also not prime places for this.

Thanks for the response great read!

Of course if you switch over quick enough you can unbalance the car and enter the next corner with a positive slip angle (with the rear away from the inside curb). It's a favorite technique of mine, especially at Circuit de la Sarthe and Apricot Hill. It takes some seriously quick movement though, and it pretty much only works in prototypes and anything slower.

 

[xmarlboromanx]

Circuit de la Sarthe seems to be the only track I have problems with. I can't get consistent times for the life of me maybe I should try that. I keep sliding on the down hill no matter what car or tune. But practice makes perfect it's hard when it frustrates you. I had the same problem in GT5.

 

[TheCrazySwede]

Understeer, Oversteer and Shifting Weight: These things can all be controlled using steering and throttle inputs.



In a nutshell:

Oversteer - Your front tires carry more grip than your rear
Understeer - Your rear tires carry more grip than your front

Go way too quick into a sharp turn, and your car will most likely understeer (Not turn sharp enough for the turn because your front tires don't have enough grip to handle the bend and your rear is constantly pushing you forward....unless you have rear wheel steering, haha)

In a RWD, for example, give the car way too much throttle coming out of a turn and you will most likely oversteer (The rear looses grip and starts sliding about, while your front stays solid. This is the cause of a spin-out and the initiation of a drift.)

Using these two techniques is a must in every racers arsenal. Do remember that your car isn't made of paper towels (Unless it is, of course) so every turn and throttle input has to cope with the force of weight being tossed around. Notice how your car dips forward when you brake hard? That's your vehicles weight being shoved to the front. Brake hard and quickly release the brakes when entering a corner, immediately followed by a boot-full of throttle, and you'll experience something called "Lift-Off Oversteer," which can be quite fun and is one of many techniques Finn's used to get FWD to slide. Another is called the "Scandinavian Flick." This is where you throw your car around, first away from the turn, then sharply into the turn, along with some gas, to throw the vehicles weight around to get the back-end out. Those are just a couple of ways weight shifting works. Remember, powerful cars not only throw your weight back into the seat, but also the weight of a car, so keep that in mind. The trick to taking turns is "Slow in; Fast Out." Position your car so that you cut right through the apex and begin your throttle progression as you exit the turn, and NOT when you enter. Having instructed a couple of amateur drivers around local tracks has taught me that this is a rather common habit.

Not sure if what I wrote helps at all, but let me know. I've been racing very competitively IRL for a while now and these things are a must for any racer. Cheers!

 

[xmarlboromanx]

No I understand it, thank you. I have always Dreamed of racing my whole life but can't afford it at the moment. I'm only 26 so when I mature a little bit, maybe I could invest on something small to start off with! But for now I got Sims to practice with. Like I invested in iRacing, SimRaceway ,Rfactor 1 & 2, Assetto Corsa this year and of course always had a GT game.
I started getting into it When I got a wheel and a nice rig I built. It satisfies me untill I could start the real thing. They are great tools to learn racing.

 

[JogoAsobi]

Great place to practice that is the long second turn at Big Willow, Willow Springs.

 

[oohhh yeah]

It's totally possible, I rely on it, and you just gave an example of it without knowing it.

You usually see this with RWD cars (MR, FR, RR) that are being pushed near the limit. Typically, if a corner can be taken in 100% grip at say, 100kph, at 110kph, you'd go wide and slide off the track just because you're going too fast.


By applying a bit too much throttle just before the apex, the rear breaks traction while the front doesn't (a relatively high speed, low angle, drift). You use the throttle to control the orientation (angle) of the car, while following the racing line (path) with the front wheels. A bit more throttle induces more slide angle, while less will cause you to straighten out and come back to traction. The idea is that upon your exit clipping point, the vehicle kisses the curbing with the rear, front tires on the racing line, and 100% traction is regained as you go exit at full throttle. This is NOT full-opposite-lock, tire-smoking drifting. This is a very slight slide with the front wheels still turned into the turn, or possibly straight, as you exit. Opposite lock should not be needed, unless it's a quick dab to regain balance/traction at exit. You should be exiting with a bit more speed, and higher in the powerband, than if you took the corner without breaking traction at all.


In AWD cars, you'd balance the car on entry, hold your line, and apply enough throttle to "push" you to the exit point, exiting without lifting.

For FWD cars, it's basically the same thing, use the throttle to push the front towards the exit point.

By slipping the rear a tiny bit, to help rotate the car, however not losing traction, and the minimal slip would allow the car to exit higher in the powerband. So this is theoretically the fastest way around a corner for racing?

How is it possible for this be done in an FF, when the drive wheels are the front?

 

[raytard]

Theoretically, yes, but in the conditions I described (ideally a corner before a straight, solid and stable entry, and early to on-time apex that allows you to take a tight line and "slide out" a bit with some throttle). There are some situations where it will totally screw you (decreasing radii turns, bumps/hills/crests after the apex that will upset a barely stable car, etc. Willow springs, the uphill left to a tight right, and Laguna Seca's corkscrew are prime examples of where not to do this).

Watch some pro's in GT cars in real life and look at how they exit corners. You'll see their rear tire tap the curbing with the front wheels on racing line as they're shaving off precious seconds.

For all cars, FWD, RWD, AWD, adding throttle will tend to push the car to a wider line. The same idea applies to all, come in clean and stable, throttle on just before taking a tight line on the apex, and balance throttle so you come out just touching the exit point curbing.

RWD is most satisfying and useful, for the reasons I went over before.

AWD tends to push out neutrally, neither oversteering nor understeering (of course, specific cars may tend towards either, but we're talking broad generalities here). Same concept applies, use that throttle to push you to the outside line. This technique is especially useful (and fun!) in cars like the Mitsubishi Evo with AYC, that tend to slightly oversteer.

FWD, the car will understeer as you feed in throttle. The idea here is again, to exit at full throttle, touching the exit point curbing. The main difference is, since you're understeering, the front tire will kiss while the back stays on the road. The fastest way to do this in FWD is to apex on-point or just late, taking a tight exit line and allowing the understeer to push you out to a proper line. You still get on the throttle just before apexing.

For AWD and FWD, the throttle controls your line more than your angle honestly, but the results are the same.