Thrustmaster T500RS users, please respond!

  • Thread starter ccjcc81
  • 46 comments
  • 11,342 views

Does your T500RS have “FFB fade?”

  • Yes, I experience “FFB fade” while racing

    Votes: 4 20.0%

  • No, I don’t experience any “FFB fade” while racing

    Votes: 16 80.0%
  • Total voters
    20
C

ccjcc81

45
Hey guys,

If you own a T500RS, and have a spare moment, I’d like to ask for your feedback.

I’m interested in buying a T500RS, but I would like to know if it suffers from “FFB fade.” I’ve read plenty of reviews that state that the FFB on the T500 is very strong, which is what I’m looking for. But, in your experience, does the FFB strength diminish during your racing session? If so, how long does it take before it happens? What sim are you running when it happens? Does it only happen in one sim, or many? What FFB strength do you use? Anything else you think I should know?

I recently purchased a high end racing wheel, but it suffered from really bad “FFB fade.” I didn’t know what that was before, but when I would use the wheel for 15 minutes, the FFB motor would heat up, and power to the motor would be reduced. The wheel would start out very strong, but after 15-20 minutes, it would be weaker than my DFGT. None of the reviews I read, or video reviews I watched mentioned anything about FFB fade, so I didn’t know it existed. So, I’ve read and watched plenty of reviews on the T500RS, but before I buy this wheel, I’d like to get a little community feedback on it.

In order to get a wide sample, I’m posting this question on many of the sim-racing forums I frequent, so you may see this elsewhere. Please try to refrain from voting on more than one site if you can, so as not to skew the results. But, of course, feel free to comment on all of them.

Thanks you for your time.
 
My T500 doesn't suffer any FFB loss/fade at all, which is probably because of the (somewhat noisy) fan 👍.

I've used it at 60% strength, for 3-5 hours in a row; no fading.
 
No FFB fade after 2 years of use. Had issues with brakes, fan and switches on paddles, but never the main FFB engine.
 
Nothing really noticable like that. I often run 60 % max linear ffb with my 320 mm rim and doing several hours. I don´t drift though. there may be some fade but the fatigue more then compensate for that so it tend to feel heavier at the end of stints not softer ;)
 
I've had 3 or 4 t500rs, they all fade, 60% will fade alittle and virtually stay the same although it does indeed fade as I have noticed it.

Above 60% is where things go off the rails, 70% can last around 20 minutes before fade and if doing time trials after an hour the wheels are weaker than 60% by quite a margin.
at 90% fade happens very fast and within minutes you will have less than 60% power and so on.

I've come to realise in my time with the t500 that nearly everybody plays at 60% and after prolonged periods of time they still cant feel loss of ffb, I ignore this due to the fact that they just can't notice it, to me though it is night and day but then I notice a lot in everything I do so.

I ignore the bashers now as they just don't notice ffb loss and that is a fact just like I know ffb loss is also a fact that gains momentum over 60% power.

Indeed there are only a few post's on the internet of people saying these wheels do have ffb loss and there's lots of posts saying they don't but again know this tobe wrong and I don't really care what anybody else thinks as they are wrong or if they cant notice ffb loss they are right but they do lose ffb.

If you want high ffb for prolonged periods of time with no rest inbetween you have to mod the internals with more fans and heatsinks.

I love my t500rs but then I have extra heatsinks and fans and the top is removed so the motor's can can be cooled properly and this is enough for me, I certainly wouldn't be happy with it at stock though, hence the reason mines modded

I'll say no more as there's no point, been here before and there are believer's and there are deny'ers, you will either play at 60% or not, you'll either notice it or you won't.
 
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For a test, see here:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8436962#post8436962

I have done the same with rFactor HistorX mod, 100% in the realFeel plugin, 60% in the TM driver panel. Remember, 60% in the driver panel is apparently "max" beyond this the wheel "clips" and apparently doesn't actually provide more force. I have not personally tested this, but others have extensively.

The wheel DOES feel different after 45 minutes or so of hard use. However, I have tested with a scale and the drop in actual force was not half on my wheel. More like 1 pound. Whatever is being felt does not seem to be reduced force, and certainly not half in my case.
 
So, how powerful is 60%? Is 60% enough to provide good, strong FFB? I know that's a relative question, and really not a good question for a piece of hardware to be asked on a forum . . .

The only experience I have is with the GT3RSV2, which is pretty strong, but not as strong as I'd like it, and the DFGT, which is a great wheel for it's price, but not strong at all. And that other wheel, which got REALLY strong at high settings, but could not maintain them for any length of time...
 
7 out of 10 on GT5 is quite strong. I do not know if it "clips" above this...

70% in the driver on Windows is apparently the same as 100% I know, it doesn't make much sense.

Compared to the GT3RSV2, it is MUCH stronger and sharper. It's a completely different experience. I used a PWTS for years before going to the T500RS. Have you seen the photo comparing the motors between the two? I can dig it up if you'd like.

Edit: here is a comparison of the motors

T500_Motor.jpg
 
I never run over 60% FFB in GT5 myself. I have not noticed any fading in GT5 or PC sims.

I have had my T500 for about 6 months now, the only problem I have encountered was a noisy fan that was promptly replaced by Thrustmaster.
 
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60 % is 100 % linear ffb. The higher you run the more you enhance the low level feedback. You don´t get more max ffb.

As for strong enough it could be many times stronger. But that would mean servo motors and those are expensive :). But it´s strong enough to make me respect it in another way then Turbo S or even more so the G27 does.

I wish it would been smoother that is the price of that relatively big ffb motor but hopefully it make back for it in durability. Would be interesting to try a CSW. I guess it´s smoothness vs power if you are not to much into the bling factor. CSW deliver more there. T500RS have better rims though because you can choose whatever you want you are not stuck with what Thrustmaster offers.
 
Above 60% you sure do get more ffb, due to my cooling mods I can confirm 100% that ffb is much stronger at my 80% than it is at 60% and again due to the mods I get to keep my 80% for as long as like as my can is cool/warm unlike stock where the motor is red hot and ffb fade happens, if you don't have extra cooling you just don't realise what these wheels can really do, they are pretty amazing.

A very good test for this is the Raceroom Hillclimb in the Judd v8 and using the rcs file here http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/r3e-controller-rcs-files.64703/#post-1369530
Without the rcs file there's not much going on so you will need this.

I came 4th in the comp a few months back and this track combo is the best racing experience I've ever had due to the nature of the fast track with lots off ffb going on.
At 60% the wheel has tiny jerks, at 80% the wheel rips and and all ffb is felt more than at 60% but again if you don't cool the motor enugh , eg anybody that is usng just the stock fan would never know this.

If anybody would like to try you need a cold wheel and start at 80%, sadly this strength will only last a few laps before ffb fade but you will feel much stronger ffb that is fun as hell.
It's also a good idea to do a few laps then pass wheel to a friend, when he gives it you back you will notice the fade much easier.

I can see i'm in the extreme minority though so your all welcome to ignore me, i'm not bothered as I have a wheel that far surpasses the stock setup and I love it even if nobody believe's me !
But my info is sound and ccjcc81 asked for opinions and this is mine from testing, taking wheels apart and more testing until I can cool 80% 24/7 and be happy with what I have ( others are happy with what they have ), my cooling mods can't cool above this.

I'd invite anybody from Uk Coventry area to come and see personally for themselves on my setup.
 
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Michelcleo
I've had 3 or 4 t500rs, they all fade, 60% will fade alittle and virtually stay the same although it does indeed fade as I have noticed it.

Above 60% is where things go off the rails,
Click to expand...

I think anything over 60% and the wheel will clip rendering it past it effectiveness. If the wheel clips it will appear to fade, however that is clipping. Keep it below 60% and you won't have any problem.
 
^^^ there is no clipping, I feel the same effects at 60% as I do at 80% it's just that 80% is stronger and due to my cooling mods I get no effects of fade wich you may of heard is clipping.

As I said earlier, anybody is welcome to come and test my setup and see the proof of the pudding in there hands, I have the proof of what I say in the corner of my room but as I know unless you have done these mods ect people will claim the ffb fade is something else like clipping when in fact it's heat related and the wheel can do so much more with proper cooling.

ccjcc81 if you felt t on the Fanatec and returned it you will most likely feel it on the t500rs, if you do a poll on fanatic ffb fade you will also get a poll the same as here where everybody says " No fade " and you yourself have felt this and proved it in person.
I'm abig lad that does over 10 hours a week at the gym so I need more than 60%, hwever my Skinny friend after 20 minutes at 60% is sweating like a dog lol
It is a good wheel at 60% and will usually only lose a tiny bit of ffb in the first 10 miutes as the motor heats up but then with a few minutes break inbetween races it does hold up enough at 60% which according to people here is really 100% allthogh it's not or it is, I just go by what I feel in my hands

I'm going to force myself to stop here as I've been here before debating, fact is people I debate with haven't done extensive cooling mods so they are just not aware of what really is going on but I can assure anybody from my point of view and testing I say no to the clipping idea.
Maybe 1 or 2 people believe me and them themselves get shot down even though they have done extension testing that I could only dream of in the Fanatec mod thread.
 
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I don't know about clipping, but the T500 on 100% is a handful, almost too strong for anything but a brief session. I normally run between 50 and 70 depending on the sim, both for comfort and on the off chance it's keeping me from overloading my wheel.
 
Michelcleo
^^^ there is no clipping,
Click to expand...

Oh but there is clipping, at 60% or over. Anyone that is an iRacing member will remember the thread over their that discusses FFB and clipping with the T500. David Tucker who is one of the smartest developers over their discusses it extensively.

If you are a member at iRacing I will be happy to show you the threads and BTW clipping has nothing to do with any cooling mod.
 
left888
Oh but there is clipping, at 60% or over. Anyone that is an iRacing member will remember the thread over their that discusses FFB and clipping with the T500. David Tucker who is one of the smartest developers over their discusses it extensively.

If you are a member at iRacing I will be happy to show you the threads and BTW clipping has nothing to do with any cooling mod.
Click to expand...

Yeah i'd like to read these threads but i'm not a member ?

I just go on what I feel in my hands but I am a big lad so maybe my muscles hide these clipping effects that I don't feel ?
I still feel all the ffb at 80% as I do at 60% inc traction loss ect and rumbles, only difference at 80% that I feel is that its all stronger.
I do know however 100% the t500rs just like the fanatic high ranges are poorly cooled and my mods make the wheel good enough for me.
 
Well, myself I am a big lad as well? (lol) an athletic lad you might say, however that still has nothing to do with clipping. Basically you are saturating the FFB after 60% strength and you will get clipping rendering the FFB useless.

Now that is just my basic understanding of it, David Tucker knows and understands all the numbers.

I can set my strength (T500) at 100% and within a few minutes, depending on the track and other variables I suppose, will lose FFB. The optimum number is 60%
 
left888
http://members.iracing.com/jforum/posts/list/3198274.page

I'm going out on a limb here and say that ccjcc81 is Christopher J**** at iRacing and he polled the exact same poll their as here. Basically his answer is the same as my last post. Keep your FFB at 60% or less and you'll have no problem.
Click to expand...

Left888 is 99% correct, you here me complian as I used higher ffb but with stock cooling, hence the reason modded and you never here me moan anymore.

At least the t500rs you can buy from a shop and have a easy return if you don't like it.

You see, I do agree lol
 
There seems to be some confusion here regarding the clipping, etc.

I think this graph should illustrate what is going on a little better:
slnzq1.jpg


In the above, the vertical axis represents the percent of available and actual physical output from the wheel or "possible strength." This cannot go above 100% of course. I used part of a sine wave because it looks nice for the purposes of this.

The lines represent the overall strength setting in Windows which quite possibly is similar to the setting on GT5. Tests have shown that in Windows, a setting of 60% provides optimal output from the wheel, from 0 to 100 percent. The red line on that graph represents a setting of 80% overall strength in the driver. As you can see, it simply moves everything up... This means it doesn't really go down to 0 anymore and it loses fidelity at the top "clipping." Any forces asked of the wheel which sit in that "off the chart" area are simply played back by the wheel as 100%.

Now, that said, it is true the wheel will feel stronger almost all over. The exception is at the top there. It simply amplifies all of the forces. The side effect of this is that the wheel is going to work harder all over, thus, get hotter.

What has been suggested is that turning up the FFB all the way isn't really getting you anything, in fact it's making you lose something. The only way to get more FFB strength without the clipping is to use a bigger motor or more voltage.
 
Just for some reference, here are my settings in iRacing and GT5 (having 60% in the driver on PC):

- iRacing: 8.0 (linear mode)
- GT5: 4

No clipping, no fading....
 
Where's that graph from MrBasher ?

If those test's was done after each other then by the time they got to 80% the motor would have ffb fade and the motor would also be too hot to gve those strnger effects due to ffb fade due to heat and so the ffb fade looks like clipping. If they was both done with a cold motor it would only take a few moments to see ffb fade on stock cooling at 80% hence the reason it feels like clipping.
I take it those test's was done on stock cooling ?

How can I get this test and do the same but with my extra cooling to see what happens ?
I don't mind testing this as I say I just feel what I feel through my hands so it would be good to look at this from another angle and see if I am indeed right or wrong, I don't mind being wrong but I would have to see the proof with modified cooling to believe it and by looks of it only a few can do this and most dnt have extra heatsinks and a fan to cool the side of the can with no heatsink which makes a huge difference in temps ( by finger touch )
 
I think, that graph is just a "tool" to illustrate what happens, if you adjust the wheel strength and experience clipping. So this is no benchmark or something like that. This also has nothing to do with cooling or anything else. Correct me if I am wrong, mrbasher :-)
 
After 2 years of using only complaint I have on the fan (it is generally known), the switch to the left paddle and springs on the brakes.
But Thrastmaster's support has completed her work seamless in a short time 👍
 
That is correct Mahnegold. I apologize if I was not clear Michelcleo, I thought my use of "illustrate" and "represent" covered explaining that it was just an example. I made the graph in Excel.

Please re-read what I posted...

In simpler terms:

60% FFB setting outputs everything the wheel has to give while maintaining it's full range of FFB effects.
Anything above this increases everything BUT the maximum output. At the same time, it makes the wheel work harder more of the time, thus, it heats up quicker.

What I'm trying to say is that you are losing more than you are gaining by turning it up past 60%.

The clipping is a loss of "detail" and something that not everyone will notice. You can feel a loss of FFB power or "fade" while others can't or aren't. However, you apparently aren't missing out on the details by running the wheel at a level in which it has been proven to cut out details due to clipping. Or, you just don't notice...
 
LOL dang are these percentages that you guys are posting the force feedback percentage on GT5 menu?? because mine is at 100% LOL
looks like I should reduce it before s*** hits the fan. But I just got my T500 so I haven't really played too much in 100%
 
Ferrari458Italia,

Try 7. I think it feels good. 10 is overkill in my opinion.

Also, the crap isn't going to hit the fan ;)
 
mrbasher
Ferrari458Italia,

Try 7. I think it feels good. 10 is overkill in my opinion.

Also, the crap isn't going to hit the fan ;)
Click to expand...

I might drop it to 6 now that I saw that little line graph. Or if it's too light I'll put it on 7. What do you think is the most "realistic" level to put it on??? I've never really driven a real race car so I can't really tell :(

From reading this thread it seems like if I were to keep using it for a bit longer than ~1 hour a day it would hit the fan xD
 
I originally had it on 10 because it felt insane and I liked that. However, I was missing some of the nuances that the games ffb had to offer. I turned it down to 7 to try and I liked it, so I left it. :)

Again, the graph is just an example, not output from anything. It's to illustrate what "clipping" is. Not to show exactly how much, or even close to what really happens. Just an example.
 

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