Time for F1 to follow MotoGP lead and get serious about cost-cutting?

[A2K78]

Let me start by saying when it came to MotoGP and Dorna's cost-cutting efforts I wasn't too proud of the things they did, however I fully understood the reason given the fact that several factory teams and privateers teams left the championship e.g. Kawasaki/Hayate, KR Proton, Aprilia to name a few because the sport was taking a toll on them financially. You can add the refusal of BMW refusal to join MotoGP due their complaint of cost.

In the case of F1, not only is the trend of "pay drivers" becoming bad(tired of seats being given to drivers because they are "well-connected"), but almost every year there seem to be a case of teams on the brink collapse because they lack sponsorship or just don't have the money to be competitive....the sudden collapse of USF1 a few years ago not to mention the current case of Sauber bending backwards in an effort to secure sponsorship demonstrate this.

Anyhow I really hope F1 actually get serious about cutting cost, but doing it in a manner that allow smaller teams to be very competitive without having to spend too much thus paving the way for pay drivers to be a thing of the past and also ending the grid monopolies of Ferrari, RB and Mclaren.

 

[Imari]

To be fair, MotoGP still only has three teams making proto bikes, although I understand Suzuki may be coming back soon. And Ducati still isn't particularly competitive, so really it's a straight shot between Yamaha and Honda. F1 has more diversity than that.

I do like what they've done in terms of pushing the performance of the CRT bikes up though, and wouldn't mind seeing something similar done with "customer" teams in F1. It's sort of harder to judge in F1 though, because while CRT teams essentially buy their bikes whole (or such is my understanding), in F1 almost all of the teams are supplied in part by other teams apart from Lotus/Renault, Ferrari and Mercedes.

 

[05XR8]

So many ways to cost cut but, will Bernie and the stock holders let it happen? cost cutting by way of removing flamboyant front wings and side pods, for a start. F1 used have 1000hp engines and poor driver safety compared to today.

I say bring back "normal" wings and basic design and low profile tyres. Williams had fancy suspensions but simple aero compared to today's cars. Hopefully with the new turbo-age they can scale back the aero(realistically probably wont ever happen) for passing, instead of relying on the "button" and DRS all the time.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I say bring back "normal" wings and basic design and low profile tyres. Williams had fancy suspensions but simple aero compared to today's cars. Hopefully with the new turbo-age they can scale back the aero(realistically probably wont ever happen) for passing, instead of relying on the "button" and DRS all the time.

The thing is though, no matter how much the regulations crunch down in one area, the teams will just find another area to develop their cars, spending just as much or even more. Take rear diffuser and blown exhausts of the last four years for example. Restricting development isn't an ideal way to cut costs, either it won't work or you'll end up with a spec series which I'm sure nobody wants.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I think what should happen is that cars up to two to three seasons old should be sold to lower teams and then brought up to current regs, thus the team may be able to unlock aerodynamics in ways they didn't think to do before hand. This for one would cut cost, but a budget cap is the only other way I can see cutting costs as well.

USF1 is an awful example, and they didn't have their crap together from day one, I can understand you saying Sauber, and it would have been acceptable to use HRT. However, USF1 wrote a check they knew couldn't be cashed and I don't blame F1 for that.

 

[05XR8]

I agree, that's the way of things.

I know it's about Grand Prix machines but, Sports cars seem to have it right.

Yes! a budget cap works. F1 is pretty much like a spec series in regards to same engine config/displacement/fuel type/induction. Then again, are race fans ready for a full on F1 electric car or diesel hybrid?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I agree, that's the way of things.

I know it's about Grand Prix machines but, Sports cars seem to have it right.

Which group GT or Prototype or both? GT has it right due to them doing what I said F1 should do, AM in WEC run older cars. Prototype on the others hand I don't agree, they are just as bad as F1 as far as money goes, Toyota and Audi and Porsche (soon) spend tons of money that would probably equal two or three teams put together.

 

[R0ssingt0n]

Which group GT or Prototype or both? GT has it right due to them doing what I said F1 should do, AM in WEC run older cars. Prototype on the others hand I don't agree, they are just as bad as F1 as far as money goes, Toyota and Audi and Porsche (soon) spend tons of money that would probably equal two or three teams put together.

You're forgetting P2 though. I feel that class has it right too. P1 on the other hand I think should be the class purely for the teams willing to throw as much money as possible as it's at the front line of innovation. Just my opinion though.

Back to the original post though. F1 needs something to happen, I hate the idea of pay drivers. I'd hate to be in the position of an incredibly talented driver without the right money, it must be so frustrating.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

You're forgetting P2 though. I feel that class has it right too. P1 on the other hand I think should be the class purely for the teams willing to throw as much money as possible as it's at the front line of innovation. Just my opinion though.

Back to the original post though. F1 needs something to happen, I hate the idea of pay drivers. I'd hate to be in the position of an incredibly talented driver without the right money, it must be so frustrating.

I didn't forget about P2,l I'm just trying to see what Sport Cars has right in the budget area, I was giving examples to see which one was right is all. The only class comparable to F1 is P1, hence why you didn't see me talking about P2. So in that case, F1 should be keeping the money tossing going on too I guess because P1 should as well.

I think GP2/GP3,WSR3.5 Drivers need too look more toward P1 and P2 and make WEC/ELMS/ALMS even better than F1. Perhaps that will wake F1 up from it's ego that has gotten out of hand. As much as I love the sport, at times it could be even better.

 

[R0ssingt0n]

I didn't forget about P2,l I'm just trying to see what Sport Cars has right in the budget area, I was giving examples to see which one was right is all. The only class comparable to F1 is P1, hence why you didn't see me talking about P2. So in that case, F1 should be keeping the money tossing going on too I guess because P1 should as well.

I think GP2/GP3,WSR3.5 Drivers need too look more toward P1 and P2 and make WEC/ELMS/ALMS even better than F1. Perhaps that will wake F1 up from it's ego that has gotten out of hand. As much as I love the sport, at times it could be even better.

I see what you mean, my mistake. Although anything I say will probably be fairly one sided in the favour of sportscars, my interest in F1 has dropped dramatically over the past few years.

 

[05XR8]

Which group GT or Prototype or both? GT has it right due to them doing what I said F1 should do, AM in WEC run older cars. Prototype on the others hand I don't agree, they are just as bad as F1 as far as money goes, Toyota and Audi and Porsche (soon) spend tons of money that would probably equal two or three teams put together.

I say prototype. I think they got it right by the freedoms they are allowed. if you cap the budget as you suggested, f1 teams would still have to come up with the best formula for performance. Let's say Ferrari want a V12. it would be interesting to see how they developed that. Honda with their 4-cylinders or V6 hybrid, Mercedes and diesel power, etc.

 

[Peasantslayer]

Didn't they think about doing this a few years ago but Red Bull found a way around it by creating Red Bull Technologies and spending hundreds of millions and then handing stuff over to Red Bull Racing so RBR technically haven't spent anything.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I say prototype. I think they got it right by the freedoms they are allowed. if you cap the budget as you suggested, f1 teams would still have to come up with the best formula for performance. Let's say Ferrari want a V12. it would be interesting to see how they developed that. Honda with their 4-cylinders or V6 hybrid, Mercedes and diesel power, etc.

Which is fine, but there would need to be a cap first, and we aren't talking about the Freedoms. If we were I'd easily agree that Sports Cars are way better than F1. However, since it is a monetary issue I don't see any one group that is best. P1 and F1 are the same in pushing the envelope and creating new things that make the cars work better than ever before.

 

[05XR8]

Which is fine, but there would need to be a cap first, and we aren't talking about the Freedoms. If we were I'd easily agree that Sports Cars are way better than F1. However, since it is a monetary issue I don't see any one group that is best. P1 and F1 are the same in pushing the envelope and creating new things that make the cars work better than ever before.

Yes! and forgive me but, if Caterham wanted an RB9 how does that work when it's mid-year upgrade time?

 

[Imari]

I think what should happen is that cars up to two to three seasons old should be sold to lower teams and then brought up to current regs, thus the team may be able to unlock aerodynamics in ways they didn't think to do before hand. This for one would cut cost, but a budget cap is the only other way I can see cutting costs as well.

Stuff like this would be good. Something that forcibly migrates technology from the top teams on down. It limits the utility that those top teams get from spending tons of money, and maybe discourages them from doing it. Even if not, at least it brings the lower teams up to something approaching the same level. And they can't afford the top level drivers, so they're still not challenging the top guys for wins. Max Chilton couldn't beat Alonso if he had a twin turbocharged RB9.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Stuff like this would be good. Something that forcibly migrates technology from the top teams on down. It limits the utility that those top teams get from spending tons of money, and maybe discourages them from doing it. Even if not, at least it brings the lower teams up to something approaching the same level. And they can't afford the top level drivers, so they're still not challenging the top guys for wins. Max Chilton couldn't beat Alonso if he had a twin turbocharged RB9.

Alonso with three wheels on his car is faster than Chilton on his best day

Yes! and forgive me but, if Caterham wanted an RB9 how does that work when it's mid-year upgrade time?

Don't ask me, ask the team who'd buy the car. Customer cars aren't anything radical or special it was talked about earlier this year as a solution, and a ton last year. It's clear that we have a new Minardi and Jordan as we did beginning of 2000s.