Time to Consolidate: The Cadillac XTS (NAIAS 2010)

[YSSMAN]

Replacing the STS and DTS: The Cadillac XTS

What to know:

• The XTS is slated to replace the STS and DTS full-size sedans
• The XTS sits between both in size, closer to the current DTS
• The chassis is derrived from the Epsilon II platform (LaCrosse, 9-5, Regal/Insignia)
• Power comes from a 3.6L V6 matched to a PHV system, basically the one from the old Saturn VUE PHV
• All of that... Good for over 350 BHP
• Standard engine will probably be the 2.8T V6 from the Insignia VXR/OPC
• All Wheel Drive appears to be standard as well

Finally a luxury flagship from Cadillac that can actually stand up to the others in the segment. While it is nowhere near class-leading, it makes itself an interesting alternative by including the hybrid setup... Or the Turbo V6. The materials look good, but after all, it is a concept car. Frankly, as long as the Sixteen is finally getting around to kinda being produced, I can be fairly happy.

 

[homeforsummer]

Looks good, though would look even better with less of a rear overhang. And less fake-looking wood in the interior.

Doesn't surprise me that it's built on the same platform as the Insignia either, there are definitely some similarities in the overall shape.

 

[Paulie]

It certainly looks executive and high-class, real luxury menace.

@ YSSMAN, how can you say it's not class leading if nobody has ever driven it and it's only in concept form?

I want to know how big this actually is, bigger than a Holden Caprice? Are those rims actually 22s disguised by the sheer size of this beast?

 

[Jim Prower]

It's an FF competing against bahnburners.

[heavy]Awww, dis is baaaad![/heavy]

 

[magicalgin]

I don't like their design language, it's too squary, like cars from the eighties.

 

[YSSMAN]

@ YSSMAN, how can you say it's not class leading if nobody has ever driven it and it's only in concept form?

Despite my love for all things GM, the yardstick that is the Mercedes S-Class really can't be taken down, no matter what is thrown at it - at least in my book. It appears as though the XTS is going to have fun playing around with the secondary luxury flagships. Generally speaking, I really only expect the XTS to challenge the Audi A8 at the highest level, but BMW and Mercedes simply operate on another plane of competition. Sure, they could pull off a major surprise like they did when the CTS debuted a few years back, but that doesn't guarantee success.

Plus, we all forget about the missing ingredient: The people who will be buying these. Older (well, probably MUCH older), slightly above middle-class, mostly white Americans. Most of which will probably cringe at the likely very high price tag, but won't be too concerned about standard of the world bits at all.

 

[Tornado]

Well, look at Cadillac. Putting an engine in this car (though even then not really because of what the car used to have)? Good job.

Anyways, I'm curious for the reviews. It is essentially a Lincoln MKS competitor no matter what Cadillac says about it, and with that in mind it looks pretty good. Also, the obnoxiousness of calling it XTS means I will call it by its clearly-intended full name, Xtreme Touring Sedan, any and all times I refer to it in the future.

Really, I can't get my blood boiling for this. Typical GM idiocy, essentially (and unsurprisingly) taking the single worst option out of the four or five that were rumored to be underway back in 2008. Quite frankly, I find it hard to even care anymore.

 

[Shant J.]

Anyways, I'm curious for the reviews. It is essentially a Lincoln MKS competitor no matter what Cadillac says about it, and with that in mind it looks pretty good.

This is a class above the MKS. The MKS is CTS-sized.

 

[Keef]

I want to know how big this actually is, bigger than a Holden Caprice?

It's shorter, but slightly taller and wider than an S-Class.

 

[Tornado]

This is a class above the MKS. The MKS is CTS-sized.

No it isn't. The MKS is bigger than the BMW 7-series and the CTS is smaller than the 5-series. And since the Xtreme Touring Sedan is replacing the DeVille (which is also bigger than the 7-series) more than it is replacing the Seville, I expect that this car will be roughly the same size.


Edit: Looking at numbers, the Xtreme Touring Sedan is 14mm smaller than the MKS.

 

[DeathSmiles]

Looks real good. Between this, and the CTS Coupe (and CTS-V Coupe), Cadillac has my attention again.

 

[Shant J.]

No it isn't. The MKS is bigger than the BMW 7-series and the CTS is smaller than the 5-series. And since the Xtreme Touring Sedan is replacing the DeVille (which is also bigger than the 7-series) more than it is replacing the Seville, I expect that this car will be roughly the same size.


Edit: Looking at numbers, the Xtreme Touring Sedan is 14mm smaller than the MKS.

Isn't the MKS a re-bodied Taurus?

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Isn't the MKS a re-bodied Taurus?

Yes; the new Taurus is friggin gigantic.

 

[Shant J.]

Yes; the new Taurus is friggin gigantic.

Wow... just wow... I thought the Taurus was Charger-sized.

 

[Inphinity]

Yes; the new Taurus is friggin gigantic.

If you think the Taurus is huge, then take a look at the Audi A8 Hybrid. It is just HUGE. Makes the Taurus look like a Mini Cooper.

 

[Omnis]

Replacing the STS and DTS: The Cadillac XTS

XTS, aka, "The Waspmobile"

 

[Philly]

I think it looks very nice in there. They'll probably make the interior a little more conventional with actual buttons, or I hope they do something like that. But what they have now I like. It looks very well laid out and has sort of a simple luxury sort fo feel to it. And that's great since the S-Class would have the same number of buttons to cover just the seat massage.

But I think the design is too slung back. The roof and rear overhang combine to make the car look very long. And the visual length is all in the back, which is a bit awkward. But it looks pretty legit. I'm interested to see if this is going to be a return to good old American luxury with decently built cars.

Also, I think it needs a V8 at least somewhere in the line. It wouldn't surprise me to see them do a V line car. But I get the feeling that if you're going to sell a top shelf luxury car, you've going to need to at least offer it with a V8.

Anyways, I'm curious for the reviews. It is essentially a Lincoln MKS competitor no matter what Cadillac says about it, and with that in mind it looks pretty good. Also, the obnoxiousness of calling it XTS means I will call it by its clearly-intended full name, Xtreme Touring Sedan, any and all times I refer to it in the future.

Maybe Xtra or Xcessive? They're only one letter away from the XLTS that it really is... Hopefully it'll bet a real name and the X is just there for concept purposes.

 

[blkvzgo]

Another car for the mafia. The Don should be riding in this one, while the bodyguards in 300C's. If seriously, this looks just so much better than a S-class.

 

[///M-Spec]

Very good looking car. I especially like the rear 3/4ths view.

If that is suede or Alcantara on the center and side armrests, I'm pretty impressed.

@HFS: The wood in the photo looks the same as the wood in any old person car... How do you know it's fake?

I sincerely hope AWD is standard.

Is the Epsilon II designed for longitudinal or transverse drivetrains?

Why didn't they just do what Nissan did with M45/M35 and stretched the CTS a few inches here and there?


M

 

[YSSMAN]

Also, I think it needs a V8 at least somewhere in the line. It wouldn't surprise me to see them do a V line car. But I get the feeling that if you're going to sell a top shelf luxury car, you've going to need to at least offer it with a V8.

Cadillac is apparently separating their specialty models into two forms; "Platinum" and the current V-series. The Platinum name is actually debuting here on this car, its full name being the Cadillac XTS Platinum Concept. My understanding is that the new designation will be kinda like the Vanden Plas editions of Jaguars, or the Alpina BMWs. A little extra oomph in performance, a little extra luxury, all while not being too overdone.

I sincerely hope AWD is standard.

It sounds like that is the case. The chassis apparently can be converted to RWD, but I haven't heard if they're still actively funding that development program or not. It sounds like they're benchmarking the new S-Class Hybrid and the Audi A8 as their reference pieces, so it would seem reasonable to keep AWD as the only option.

Is the Epsilon II designed for longitudinal or transverse drivetrains?

I think they're all designed for transverse applications across the board. Its technically a Saab platform after all.

Why didn't they just do what Nissan did with M45/M35 and stretched the CTS a few inches here and there?

As far as I can recall, GM has never given a straight answer as to why/why not. The Sigma II chassis would be more than adequate to handle the job, but I would think it was more about money than anything else. Which is funny, because this was originally supposed to ride on the Zeta chassis, which they ended up scrapping anyway (after spending billions on development). There was talk too that the Epsilon II chassis would be merged, somehow, with the Lambda chassis (Enclave, Traverse, etc) to make this car. I have no idea if that actually happened or not. GM really hasn't said what chassis this car is on anyway.

 

[Tornado]

The really funny part is that this thing, depending on how if it weighs as epically heavy as it is shaping up to be, probably won't get a single MPG better than it would if they had just built the damn thing on the Zeta in the first place.
Isn't GM depressing?

 

[YSSMAN]

As a GM fan, absolutely. Its terribly frustrating, especially when you look down the street at Ford and you see that, for the most part, they've got their stuff figured out.

 

[TVC]

This is suppose to be the best Cadillac? It looks like it was made to compete with the ES.

 

[Tornado]

That's pretty much what it is going to do, size differences notwithstanding.

 

[Philly]

The really funny part is that this thing, depending on how if it weighs as epically heavy as it is shaping up to be, probably won't get a single MPG better than it would if they had just built the damn thing on the Zeta in the first place.
Isn't GM depressing?

More proof that no matter how many bailouts, bankruptcies and CEOs they go through, GM will always be GM.

 

[Tornado]

Its quite sad, isn't it? I don’t think I’ll ever accept how building the Zeta-Camaro and fleet-only Caprice PPV makes good business sense, but building a Zeta sedan in North America for Chevy, Buick, or Cadillac is financial suicide.

Or, how 20MPG EpsilonII cars are fine for the stricter future CAFE standards, but a 20MPG Zeta sedan absolutely can’t exist with the new standards.

 

[YSSMAN]

Or how, with little work as the Aussies have proved, mileage performance for the full-bodied Zetas can be drastically improved with minor weight reductions, different gear sets, and low-resistance tires.

The product development team at GM is about as bi-polar as my Aunt. That's not good.

 

[Philly]

Its quite sad, isn't it? I don’t think I’ll ever accept how building the Zeta-Camaro and fleet-only Caprice PPV makes good business sense, but building a Zeta sedan in North America for Chevy, Buick, or Cadillac is financial suicide.

Or, how 20MPG EpsilonII cars are fine for the stricter future CAFE standards, but a 20MPG Zeta sedan absolutely can’t exist with the new standards.

Maybe that has something to do with tooling or something? It could be that the Zeta cars are more expensive to produce or would require a lot more money to get a line up and running.

It probably has something to do with rear wheel drive and the word causes sour looks at GM or something. Even though it'd probably get better fuel efficiency than an AWD car. But then again, AWD just sounds so much cooler on a badge on the back of the car...

The product development team at GM is about as bi-polar as my Aunt. That's not good.

My guess is that half the people there are trying to build a good car and the other half are trying to build a car to a sheet of specs handed to them from the non-engineering guys.

 

[Tornado]

Maybe that has something to do with tooling or something? It could be that the Zeta cars are more expensive to produce or would require a lot more money to get a line up and running.

They can't be that expensive when GM is going to do fleet sales on them. Particularly when they are ridiculously importing the cars to do so. Nah, I'm thinking GM is just being stupid because they have lost the ability to do anything else.

Even though it'd probably get better fuel efficiency than an AWD car. But then again, AWD just sounds so much cooler on a badge on the back of the car...

Probably? Make that certainly. The Buick LaCrosse is an 1850 kg boat despite being FWD only. The Cadillac is about 8 inches longer and AWD only, so ballpark around 1940+ kg (which is what the similar sized and powered Lincoln MKS weighs). The Holden Stateman, which is the nearly identical in size but with a much larger wheelbase (which means it already makes more sense than the Xtreme Touring Sedan) and a V8 engine, weighs less than 1900 kg. Cue the facepalming.

My guess is that half the people there are trying to build a good car and the other half are trying to build a car to a sheet of specs handed to them from the non-engineering guys.

See: The engineers in charge of the Lambda crossovers versus the engineers in charge of the Theta crossovers. Respectively.

 

[Paulie]

I wouldn't be surprised if using this architecture has something to do with the hyrbid system and what engines it can mate to. Can the hybrid system be used on a longitudinally mounted engine propelling the rear wheels? Plus who says it gets 20mpg? We don't know yet.
I also read somewhere that the wood is real. I still can't get over how official this thing looks, anyone with a position of significance NEEDS this car.

As a GM fan, absolutely. Its terribly frustrating, especially when you look down the street at Ford and you see that, for the most part, they've got their stuff figured out.

Except that they're trying to kill the Aussie Falcon instead of using it or the platform the world over, and short of the Mustang the Falcon is probably their best car. Actually, maybe the Falcon is better, better at being a sedan than the Mustang at being a coupe?