Time to kill off Pontiac: G8 and Solstice not to return.

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Driving Away Excitement: Pontiac Kills Rear-Wheel-Drive G8

Date posted: 10-22-2008


DETROIT — After acknowledging that there will be no replacement for the Solstice roadster, Pontiac looks like it will lose a little more excitement when the rear-wheel-drive G8 sedan goes out of production in about five years' time.
According to sources, Pontiac will not get a version of the next rear-drive platform that underpins the Australian Holden Commodore. This move is indicative of a fundamental switch in direction for Pontiac, the General Motors division that just a few years ago was envisioned by Bob Lutz to be the American BMW. The deaths of the Solstice and the eventual discontinuation of the next-generation G8 will leave Pontiac with zero rear-wheel-drive vehicles.
Pontiac already sells the G5, a Chevrolet Cobalt with the ol' excitement treatment and soon will begin selling a version of the subcompact Chevrolet Aveo called the G3. Not exactly sporting propositions, those.
Limited corporate resources and fear of rising fuel-economy standards look to be the prime drivers in the return of Pontiac to the badge-engineering days. Those limited funds might also explain why the midsize G6 sedan won't be substantially updated (to match the level of refinement of the recently revamped Chevy Malibu) for about another five years.
Inside Line says: You've still got plenty of time to pick up your very own G8 — the high-horsepower GXP and the quasi-pickup-truck ST versions are still to be introduced. But you don't have forever. — Daniel Pund, Senior Editor, Detroit
Linky.

Doesn't seem to be an point in Pontiac if this rings true. They should take down the brand as soon as those two leave, period; as there will no longer be any reason for the brand to exist.
 
Huh? Weird... Hopefully they understand that we won't be in this recession forever.

American BMW? I though Buick and Cadillac had that covered.

I agree. If this is true, there will be no more reason for Pontiac to be hanging around. This is rather disappointing after GM getting our hopes up for a semi-legit sporting brand not too long ago.
 
I figured the G8 would die, if they aren't popular in GM happy Detroit then I can't imagine they are popular elsewhere. The Solstice surprises me a bit though since it's actually a good car.
 
If they die, I'm predicting it will only be a temporary hibernation. Give them a couple sister-brand model cycles before making a reappearance, marketed as a revival of American soul in a time (15-20 years away?) when I doubt there will be any demand of such traditional automotive trends.

If Pontiac dies, it will exponentially increase its marketability as a brand.
 
I figured the G8 would die, if they aren't popular in GM happy Detroit then I can't imagine they are popular elsewhere. The Solstice surprises me a bit though since it's actually a good car.

That is true. I think I could probably count the number I've seen on the roads since they came out on one hand.

If Pontiac dies, it will exponentially increase its marketability as a brand.

Although Pontiac isn't exactly known to be anything great. Reviving a brand that has been pretty "meh" for a while and touting it as the return of some heritage thingy just doesn't seem like it would fly very well.
 
Although Pontiac isn't exactly known to be anything great. Reviving a brand that has been pretty "meh" for a while and touting it as the return of some heritage thingy just doesn't seem like it would fly very well.

They wouldn't be returning to the heyday of the Pontiac Sunfire. Go all the way back, the good ol' days when you didn't care about seatbelts or anything. It's trying hard to work now with the Camaro, Challenger etc. Imagine if nobody spoke of the Pontiac name after they tried to sell of their junk rusted-out Wave for 400$ to the tow-truck guy around the corner. I think it would work then...
 
All three of those cars had a good history though. Pontiac really doesn't have much aside from the GTO, Bonneville and the recent offerings from Holden, and the Grand Prix which seemed to do well.
 
Its not exactly a gigantic surprise, but nevertheless, a disappointing one. What the article neglects to identify is that while there has not been a mention of a Kappa replacement, and for that matter, a replacement for Zeta in North America by the end of 2012, the Alpha program under all intensive purposes is still on-track for a 2011 or 2012 release.

What that means to you:

Kappa and Zeta may be dead, but the Alpha chassis is rumored to be flexible enough to be able to accommodate a wide variety of cars (or trucks?) in much the same way that the 3er platform can spin off a wide variety of vehicles at BMW.

More or less, all of us GM people are in a holding pattern as to whats going to happen in the future. Chrysler deal pending, things can get shaken up very easily. It is my understanding, currently, that GM product lines will eventually be limited to just a few platforms:

  • Gamma - Small, Fiesta-size sub-compact (no word on North American sale yet)
  • Delta II - Replacement of current Astra/Cobalt chassis with Cruze, et al
  • Epsilon II - Rumored to be "small" with Saab 9-3/Vectra to "large" with possible Lucerne replacement
  • Theta/Epsilon II - Some kind of hybrid body that would replace Lambda crossovers, possibly
  • Alpha - Small (but flexible) RWD architecture, starting with Cadlliac BLS

But, this list seems to change on a monthly basis these days...
 
But, this list seems to change on a monthly basis these days...

I'm under the impression that GM really hasn't the faintest idea of what they are doing these days. Especially after such a long time of big news that really turned out to be nothing and now a period of relative quiet or "bad" news.
 
I'm under the impression that GM really hasn't the faintest idea of what they are doing these days. Especially after such a long time of big news that really turned out to be nothing and now a period of relative quiet or "bad" news.

I'm under the impression that we're back to "factions" at GM again, which is not good. Granted, much of the positive nature of GM came out of the looming Lutz faction of the early 2000's, he and his buddies have lost a lot of power, much of which has gone back to Wagoner and to some extent the European bosses. I believe you're still going to see a very strong Lutz group that is going to push for higher performance and higher quality vehicles, but with the prospects of running out of cash looming in the boardroom, I think we may go back to a top-down operation...

Most of the confusion these days mainly comes over what the hell they're going to do with the platforms, thats really it. Most of the people at GM are in agreement that technology wise, they're essentially on-par with the overwhelming majority of the competition, and consequently we won't have to see these petty wars over the "High-Feature" versus "High-Value" V6 ranges, what was once a battle over the future of ECOTEC, and hell, even what transmissions are worth keeping and which are not.

What it all comes down to in the end is that GM has to do what we've all argued about here before; They need to decide on solid brand directions, product plans, or cut things altogether. Pontiac can continue to exist as a performance brand without Zeta or Kappa, Epsilon will happily carry AWD and there are rumors of a RWD version as well, and as we've seen with the French, it is very easily to build high-performance FWD cars as well.

Chevrolet Getting the Zeta

Don't count it out just yet. Like I mentioned above, "factions" at GM are going to lead you to believe distinctly different things. It pretty much goes without question that the W-Bodied Impala is on life-support, and given the size difference between it and the Malibu, a bump-up in size would be necessary. Some are saying that they may import the Lumina from the Middle-East with an addition of quad tail-lights and the "brand face" split front grille, others are saying that the next Impala will be a supersized version of Epsilon II with AWD or RWD. However, I'm not sure which faction I believe.

IMO?

Pontiac should keep the Kappa car as long as possible, continuously updating the chassis in much the same way they did with the W-Body from '88-present. The Zeta program has been troubled from the start, so let it run its course, and then move on; Likely to Alpha or use whatever the Camaro's replacement chassis will be. Otherwise, let Pontiac take over the true performance alternatives to Chevrolet/Saturn, some with AWD standard (G6 anyone?) and others that are straight-up Banzai crazy (A high-performance G3 stripped of anything deemed 'unnecessary' and fitted with a Hi-Po ECOTEC).
 
-> Man, I would think that the G8 as the 4(or 5)-door halo car for GM. And why are they ending it all of the sudden? This car could make huge strides for Pontiac along with the Solstice. That's stupid I should say!

-> Looks like I have to win the lottery to get that G8 GXP. :(

Make the G8 the Chevy it should've been.

0407chevrolet_lumina.jpg


^ I agree. :indiff:

-> I should think that Pontiac should be the GMC (for trucks) of sports or performance-oriented cars:

Delete
Torrent series
G3
G5 GT (N/A)
G6 GT

Keep
G6 GTP & GXP (sedans & coupe)
Solstice series
G8 V6, GT, ST, and GXP sedan

Bring
G5 GXP (S/C, since Cobalt has turbo already)
G8 Sportswagon V6, GT, GXP
"Coupe 60" GT & GXP

-> Ever since I drove the GTO 6.0 my perception on Aussie-built GM has redefined my faith on GM, but if they're rid of it, my next GM car would cost $75K (C6 Z06)! :scared:

^ I can settle a used GTO 6.0 or a used G8 GXP in the future. :sly:
 
They seem to sell pretty good where im at...:confused:

Space? Ya that's probably the only place they do sell, there and Australia. Honestly not many Americans want a big rear drive Pontiac.
 
Nor will anyone really want a big RWD Pontiac pickup truck. Or the proposed big RWD Pontiac wagon. Which, forgive me if I'm wrong, is what everyone told GM when they announced the Commodore would be a Pontiac instead of a Chevy.
 
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Oh well.

I agree though that it's time to kill Pontiac. The G8 and Solstice were the only things going for it.
 
Nor will anyone really want a big RWD Pontiac pickup truck. Or the proposed big RWD Pontiac wagon. Which, forgive me if I'm wrong, is what everyone told GM when they announced the Commodore would be a Pontiac instead of a Chevy.

They probably could have gotten enough wagons out the door to warrant a limited production run of those.
 
I say let it go. It has no niche to fill. There is more excitement elsewhere. You can't have a division of exciting cars when the most exciting cars are Chevy's (Camaro, Corvette) and the RWD coupe is outclassed in looks by the sub-entry level luxury (or whatever they're calling Saturn) counterpart. Making a G5 GXP won't work. Rebadging is not the way to go, they need new cars and there just is not a market for them. GM can't keep stretching it's resources thin. In Pontiacs case, the only interesting car is the G8, and it missed the mark (at least in sales.)
 
That's actually a good question. As I understand it, Sky sales have been decent (they haven't dropped nearly as much as Solstice sales) and its European rebadge has been doing fairly good as well.
 
Weak. Finally building the cars that can save the division, only to kill'em off? Dumb.

*They aren't killing them off (yet). The G8 will fade away in five years, the Kappa car presumably in the same time frame.

nissan tuner
So what does this mean for the Saturn Sky's future? Is that still sticking around?

I don't know for certain, much of that depends on what the future is for Saturn. Given that GMC will likely disappear, and it is now said that it will be replaced by Saturn at the Buick-Pontiac-GMC centers... The death of the Solstice should keep the Sky around a little longer. Problem is, they're not bringing the Kappa platform back around for an update, so say five or so years from now, I have absolutely no idea what will happen.

My hypothesis is that it'll be replaced by an Alpha coupe, but I could be wrong.
 
Well, it depends on what Opel and Vauxhall want, too. Remember that the Sky is a rebadge of those cars: I could see Opel wanting to make their GT a coupe again.
 
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