time to upgrade from g27, new wheel with formula rim plz share ur idea

[kingzeze]

hello all,
I own logitech g27 with gt5 release. It was a great wheel but i face some problems with pro racing and I think its time to upgrade.

*** I want to decide between the three wheel:
1- fanatec CSR elite ( with the formula wheel rim coming soon ).
2- fanatec CSW with bmw and formula rim ( will cost a fortune I know ).
3- thrustmaster t500rs.

I already got g27 with playseat as i mention and I am planning to get a new set. I can't say that I am hardcore racing game, but I am a big fan of games.

*** games that I consider to play:
gt5, dirt 3, formula 2011 and 2012 coming soon, might get iracing account not sure about it yet and finally i own forza 4 but still not start with it since i don't own a wheel for it ( not very important though if the thrustmaster came as a choice since the 360 support is out here).

*** cost:
Now I know most will ask about how am I willing to spend and I can't specify that yet. most people who don't have an issue with money will go with CSW i think but i don't want to spend that much for 20-30% difference.

*** reason:
The reason i am thinking its time to change because i face some problem on g27 with force feedback plus the plastic feeling in professional mode on gt5 specifically. second thing is I need to have a formula rim but I am not sure if it worth it yet so i will leave to the discussion here

 

[paskowitz]

You seem to be more interested in console titles than pc titles. If you do not mind playing Forza with a controller and do not mind playing ps3 titles with a mediocre set off pedals then the T500RS is your best option. If you plan on doing "competitive" sim racing, you may not like this though. I do not like the wheel personally (owned it then returned it). If you have the money, I would recommend the CSW (which is what I have).

If you want 360 compatibility and want to play Forza with a FFB wheel your only option is the CSRE. If you go that route, or with the CSW, I highly recommend pick up a pair of CSPv2s. If anything the pedals will make you faster than the wheel.

Make sure you hear a couple of opinions before you make your decision.

 

[pilmat]

Not sure what you mean by "plastic feel in professional mode in GT5", but I've done back-to-back tests with the CSRE and the G27, and I can't see what all the hype about the CSRE is...

Yes, it is a nice precision piece and the initial feel when cornering is world class. But if the car steps out of line a hair, you are going for a ride with it as to with the G27 you correct and carry on. I figured it was me until the CSRE owner confirmed the same things. ANd the heavy feel of the wheel is a deal breaker for me, it a full order of magnitude more effort to drive with the CSRE.

The CSRE pedals are amazing but will require a learning curve. Load cell brakes, just like position based linear springs, are NOT car brakes, but most think that they are a lot closer than the springs (haven't spent enough time to confirm this, but I can believe it).

This is all in GT5, I haven't tried the CSRE in anything else. And it could be a firmware update away from perfection

One last note is to look at what the fast guys are using (again, in GT5). The majority of users are G27 or DFGT, with only the rare ones on T500 or rarer still on Fanatec. Maybe this is a weak gage, but after switching from a DFPro to the G27 and running a few hours on the CSRE, I get it!

YMMV...

Edit: please don't read this as Fanatec bashing! I would have one now if I thought it was better than the G27, as I only want what I think is best I'll have to try a T500 one day just to see how it goes, but the off-wheel shifters turn me off...

 

[paskowitz]

I've done back-to-back tests with the CSRE and the G27, and I can't see what all the hype about the CSRE is...

Yes, it is a nice precision piece and the initial feel when cornering is world class. But if the car steps out of line a hair, you are going for a ride with it as to with the G27 you correct and carry on. I figured it was me until the CSRE owner confirmed the same things. ANd the heavy feel of the wheel is a deal breaker for me, it a full order of magnitude more effort to drive with the CSRE.

I would say this is more due to the high precision of the CSRE vs the G25. The G25 has a fair bit of deadzone and as a result you inputs are "softened". This is why it is easier to correct with the G25. The T500RS is the same way when you first try it. You think this can't be right... I do not remember game X being this hard. It is often counter intuitive to think that more precision makes things harder, but that is exactly the case. But when you get to a level of driving where precision is paramount, it starts to pay off.

The CSRE pedals are amazing but will require a learning curve. Load cell brakes, just like position based linear springs, are NOT car brakes, but most think that they are a lot closer than the springs (haven't spent enough time to confirm this, but I can believe it).

Load cell brakes mimic (not replicate) a race car's brake(which is usually hydrological). While the pressure you apply determines the braking force, there is still a bit of travel in the brake pedal (which is also usually adjustable). They do take a bit of getting used to, but again, it pays off in the end.

This is all in GT5, I haven't tried the CSRE in anything else. And it could be a firmware update away from perfection

Fanatec has greatly improved the feel of the CSRE and CSW in recent FW updates. I would say there is still some more room to improve.

One last note is to look at what the fast guys are using (again, in GT5). The majority of users are G27 or DFGT, with only the rare ones on T500 or rarer still on Fanatec. Maybe this is a weak gage, but after switching from a DFPro to the G27 and running a few hours on the CSRE, I get it!

I would say this is a weak gauge because the G25/27 and DFGT are the most readily available wheels. They will have more top drivers using them just based on the sheer amount of them in the marketplace. In the end a wheel and pedal set may make it easier to drive faster, but it is always up to the driver to actually get that extra tenth.

YMMV...

Edit: please don't read this as Fanatec bashing! I would have one now if I thought it was better than the G27, as I only want what I think is best I'll have to try a T500 one day just to see how it goes, but the off-wheel shifters turn me off...

None taken. Fanatec wheels have their fair set of negatives (high price, mediocre reliability, etc). Exactly like you said YMMV. I would say though that coming from a G25 (owned it since the year it came out) to a CSW, the CSW is a HUGE step up in terms of performance (and price...)

 

[Carson79]

For what it's worth I loved my T500RS. It's a huge step above the DFGT which I had before it. But their is a learning curve I definitely found it hard in the beginning, but once you've got used to it, it's amazing. I only sold it as I was needing a wheel with more compatibility. So I'm ordering an Elite in a couple of weeks. I've heard good things about it. The CSW is tempting me but I can wait a while to add it

 

[RReed43]

I moved from from the G27 to CSR-E. I like it a lot more. It is smoother and more precise. I'm not interested in a formula rim so that's not important to me. The wheel works fine GT5, FM4, and F1, although I do most of my driving in GT5.

I highly recommend a load cell peddle set. I started with the CSR-E peddle set and upgraded to CSW V2. Both are excellent but I think the CSW V2 set is worth the extra money.

 

[kingzeze]

Thank you so much all of you, i can see many helpful ideas,

- true I am more interested on console more then pc but i might transfer because of the real sim i am hearing about.
- when i say the plastic feel and force feedback on g27, here I mean when I went to advanced racing on gt5, I can say the wheel isn't great to control the car and the feedback is really strong making controlling the car is a bit hard. If all wheel got the same issue, i think i should stick with my setup.
- driving f1 with g27 is really impossible to me thats why i am thinkin to upgrade.
- the real question now is how is the metal parts in CSW and CSR improve the experience compare to the g27?

 

[wajdi1977]

I have the APelettric load cell in my G27 brake and in the begining it was strange and the learning curve has lasted about one month,but once you learn to brake with it....now I can brake later and my brake is more stable and precise and my lap times has dropped about 1-1.5sec' by lap(with rFactor 2) and it is a huge improvement!

 

[paskowitz]

- the real question now is how is the metal parts in CSW and CSR improve the experience compare to the g27?

The CSW/CSRE use a belt drive system vs the G27 helical gears. The belt drive is smoother, more quite, has no dead zone, is more precise and in the case of the CSW/CSRE is much stronger. On the flip side the helical gears in the G27 are a little more immediate and sharp. Meaning their responses come through with greater clarity. Belt drives can feel a little too smooth at times. But this really is minutia.

Ultimately the CSW/CSRE are really in a different league compared to the G27. They really make the G27 seem like a toy. In a similar way the G27 made the DFP seem like a toy. If you want to learn more, read my CSW review.

 

[wajdi1977]

rFactor 2 (PC)
Arguably the current king of FFB. This point is even easier to argue with the CSW. I never liked rFactor. It just sucked in my opinion. I expected to hate rFactor 2 and I do… except for the physics and FFB. While iRacing is more developed from an overall package standpoint, rFactor 2 has exceptional FFB effects. From rumble to understeer, to oversteer, to weight transfer, to changing grip levels, to curbs, etc. There is such a variety of FFB effects and they are all transmitted beautifully through the CSW. Still, I have to say, for a game in BETA, it is a disgrace.

:tup:I can't wait to test rFactor 2(in my opinion rF2 has the best physics/FFB combo)with the CSR-Elite.

 

[thechosenwonton]

I'll say this about the CSR-E in GT5; it wasn't worth the money for me. But it absolutely rocks the Casbah in Forza 4 and iRacing; must be something about the signal translation for GT5 to the CSR-E - this was supposedly updated/fixed/corrected with 2.06 update with GT5 but I can't confirm that atm.

Why can't I confirm it? Because my replacement wheel is being sent after my CSR-E failed after only a few months (I only use it on the weekends, and then only 2-3 hours at a time, if that). If you're going to just rock GT5, I'd look seriously at the T500RS - have heard only great things about it, and it's built like a tank. Or just rock the G27, there isn't a thing wrong with it; I'd second what a few others have said, check out an aftermarket pedal kit that will give you a load cell brake; this will allow you to turn off ABS confidently and your times should drop a bit with the extra feel/control.

So CSR-E, I'd still recommend because its fantastic feeling on Forza 4 and iRacing (I'm sure other games as well) but it is most certainly not worth it if you're going to just be playing GT5, and nothing else. It's fragile as well; the motor issues are well known and I don't know if they've been addressed yet, or ever will be. If you want to play Forza 4, its the only game in town, and its impressive - immediately impressive, but be prepared to have issues (ymmv, hopefully) - support with Fanatec is good though, had no issues with them sending me a replacement, and it'll be here this Friday (opened a ticket just last week).

For GT5 only, T500RS, hands down - there's a guy on the site here who is developing (has developed?) a load cell brake switch as well, which should still get you in under the price of a CSR-E wheel and pedal set.