Time Trials past - Reveal your setup

  • Thread starter Thread starter WeeRapscallion
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WeeRapscallion

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WeeRapscallion
OK, here's the the thing. I'm a complete novice and wondered if people were willing to reveal their setups on past time trail events. It may help us to understand a bit more about setting up. I'd like to try other people's setup to see if I could do any better.

I'll start...
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TimeTrial5.jpg


Final Position - 408
Time - 2:11.572
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I was very happy with the final position but not being over 5 seconds behind the leaders.
 
Here's the tune I used for the Lamborghini Countach LP400 '74, it could be better but I did it on short notice and haven't gone back to give it a post-TT tune update, yet. I posted 2:13.2" if I remember correctly with setup but that was with very few attempts, I'm not that good at the track so someone else might have done far better with it. My attempt was without camber set also, just got around to really figuring out my testing process for camber settings and set about refining some of my older tunes soon with settings.

budious
Lamborghini Countach LP400 '74

The following setup is for the seasonal event #5 time trial which is restricted to European pre-1980 cars under 394HP, over 960KG, and using Sport Medium or lesser tires.

TT - Seasonal Event 5 Spec
--------------
392HP
991KG
--------------
GT Auto
------
+ Oil Change
--------------
Tune Shop
------
+ Weight Reduction 1
+ Window Modification
------
+ Sport Air Filter
------
+ Twin Plate Clutch (!Reconsidering these... experiment with Stock and Single Plate, read my tune article)
+ Semi-Race Flywheel (!Reconsidering these... experiment with Stock and Sports Flywheel, read my tune article)
+ Customizable LSD (!Standard Lotus Differential... just roughing it... will finish this Spec proper sometime)
@ Initial: 7
@ Acceleration: 30
@ Brake: 12
* Stock Transmission
------
+ Fully Customizable Suspension
@ Ride Height: +3 F / -2 R
@ Spring Rate: 10.5 F / 12.3 R
@ Dampers Ext: 5 F / 5 R
@ Dampers Com: 5 F / 5 R
@ Anti-Roll Bar: 4 F / 4 R
@ Camber: 0.0 F / 0.0 R
@ Toe Angle: 0.00 F / 0.00 R
------
+ Sport Medium tires
* No Aero Wing
* Brake Controller @ 5 F / 5 R
* Notes: Go easy while the tires are dark blue.
Click to expand...
 
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This really sucks for people who love to drive but have no idea how to tune. Every week I end up posting in several forums trying to find a setup for a time trial. I know I'll never be up at the top but before I go round and round one hundred times it would be nice to know you have a properly tuned car.
 
With this exception to no SE7 yet, they have been coming every week with two new time trial events. I just can't find time to tune up the perfect contender before the next one is here or the old expires. I generally wait a few days before even bothering to what cars come the front runners so I know where to focus my efforts.
 
Some young enterprising chap should start a workshop where all of us like minded individuals without real tuning experience can get together and try to collaborate on tuning the time trial cars so us non tuning drivers can have a chance. Any takers?!
 
budious
. My attempt was without camber set also, just got around to really figuring out my testing process for camber settings and set about refining some of my older tunes soon with settings.
Click to expand...

Care to share budious - real life camber tuning is typically done using tyre temps (inner/middle/outer) and so I've always struggled to understand any way better than simple trial and error in the game (either subjective laps or driving in a circle)...
 
Yeah, that is part of the problem with the camber, on a short race you might just be better off without it because the tires warm at different rates making the camber settings handle in unintended ways. Once all tires warm equally you can analyze how they perform, if it understeers than there is too much camber on rear, if you get more oversteer then you have too much on the front. Once you can identify the ratio of front to rear camber then you can determine the intensity you want to use.

Car A has an optimal camber ratio of 15:8
Intensity lvl 0 is camber 0.0/0.0
Intensity lvl 1 is camber 1.5/0.8
Intensity lvl 2 is camber 3.0/1.6
Intensity lvl 3 is camber 4.5/2.4
Intensity lvl 4 is camber 6.0/3.2
... and so on...

The higher the intensity level of the camber, the more laps it takes to heat up the tires and reap the benefits of the additional grip. I was running 6.0/3.2 on Car A on Laguna Seca last night and the grip and lap times did not start to improve until about Lap 6!
 
Hmm, with respect Budious, I'm not sure you understand camber correctly. I'm not trying to be rude, but camber would typically change as a result of a car/tyre/track/driver combination, so I think it's inappropriate to suggest that camber is a fixed ratio front to rear, or is not an intrinsic part of other suspension tuning. Furthermore, I'd suggest that any under or oversteer benefits are as a result of using the tyres effectively rather than anything else.

Your example highlights this - 6º of camber at the front is a very significant amount and probably almost double what would be seen on a normal set-up (I'm ignoring oval set-ups in this discussion). What lead you to run 6/3.2? Have you arrived at these values from tweaking the handling to your liking as you describe? Assuming car A is RWD, I'd expect traction issues running 3.2º of rear camber, and unless you were running a front end with a high degree of roll, 6º would likely produce understeer as I'd doubt you'd be using the full contact patch of the tyre.

I'd be much more inclined to run the figures you show for lvl 1 or lvl 2 (given that tyre temp can't be measured) and then tweak roll bars, springs/dampers and even ride height to get the desired handling trait.

Just my 2 cents...
 
My tune for Seasonal Events #5, Pre-1980s European cars @ Nurburgring GP/F, Sports Medium Tyres - Lamborghini Countach LP400 '74

Modifications

- Stage 2 Weight Reduction (958kg)
- Rigidity Improvement
- Aero (Rear Spoiler)
- Engine Tuning Stage 2
- Fully customisable Transmission
- Clutch: Twin Plate
- Flywheel: Semi racing
- Fully Customisable LSD
- Fully Customisable Suspension
- Sports Medium Tyres
- Run some races to get the power up to 394BHP exactly

Setup

- Aero 0/20
- Transmission: 162mph
- LSD: 5/10/5
- Ride Height: +40/-25
- Springs: 17.0 / 19.0
- Dampers: 10/10 , 10/10
- Anti Roll: 7/7
- Camber: 1.5/1.0
- Toe: -0.20 / -0.20
- Brakes: 6/6

Laptime 2'06.806 - 4th overall.

It was disappointing to see all 3 laptimes above mine drive off the road at the exit of turn 4 and fully onto the grass, with the #1 time really taking the biscuit and going so far onto the grass that he almost hit the wall.

I do genuinely hope the new update brings more stringent penalty measures for 3 or 4 wheels off tarmac.

All the best
Maz
 
Ah I should have known. I knew I couldn't really be multiple seconds behind the top people...I should have watched the replay.
 
SileightyCyrus
Ah I should have known. I knew I couldn't really be multiple seconds behind the top people...I should have watched the replay.
Click to expand...

Not all the times were like that though, I was about 0.800s behind #1 but with a totally clean lap. It was possible 👍

Also I noticed the top 2, despite the blatant cheating, had cars requiring oil changes and set their laps really late in the day. They must have run the Lambos down to lower HP and added another part to increase torque. Mine was a prize Lambo at 0.0 miles and therefore only went up in HP with a little distance driven.

All the best
Maz
 
Synwraith, thats a very stiff car. Obviously it worked quite well, Ill have to try it as I really like that car and use it regularly.

Whats the deal with the maxed front ride height? I see a lot of the top cars int he time trials set up like this. Kind of goes against real-world suspension tuning.
 
For comparison to Synwraiths setup, here's my setup for Nurburgring with Lamborghini Countach LP400 '74. I was 0.05 seconds behind Synwraith with a completely different setup and we had a nice battle going on for a while :) My lambo was from the UCD.

Modifications

- Stage 2 Weight Reduction (958kg)
- Aero (Rear Spoiler)
- Sports ECU
- Racing Air Filter
- Fully customisable Transmission
- Clutch: Twin Plate
- Flywheel: Semi racing
- Fully Customisable LSD
- Fully Customisable Suspension
- Sports Medium Tyres
- Performance figures: 392bhp@8200rpm and 37kgfm@5700rpm

Setup

- Aero 0/17
- Transmission: 260kph / 162mph
- LSD: 9/17/15
- Ride Height: -14/-11
- Springs: 9.2 / 11.7
- Dampers (Fe/Fc , Re/Rc): 3/2 , 5/4
- Anti Roll: 3/5
- Camber: 2.1/1.4
- Toe: -0.25 / 0.00
- Brakes: 5/7

Laptime 2'06.859 - 6th overall.

My setup is considerably softer than Synwraiths and has much more conventional ride height settings. I think if you would set a car with its nose pointing to the heaven, the front would become so light that it would result in massive understeer making the car undriveable. And when the car would get enough air under itself, this would happen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQbgSe9S54I

Then there is the dirty oil trick. Basically you stress the engine (by running it with dirty oil) so much, that it loses a big amount of its original power, allowing you to fit more tuning parts to the car. The additional tuning parts then make the car faster than a car that has less parts fitted and clean oil.

The dirty oil trick and the "counter-logic" of the setups are pretty much the reasons I don't bother with the seasonal TTs so much anymore.
 
I find the two opposing set-ups very interesting, especially as they achieve almost identical times - does suggest there is a flaw (or several) in the model somewhere.

Zkippe, your set-up is much closer to a real world set-up (softer suspension to achieve weight transfer and load up the relatively low grip tyres), although the only stand-out for me is the rear brake bias (I assume to achieve some yaw). Can the same not be achieved by reducing the decel side of your LSD from 15 down to 10 or 8?

I assume you both ran without aids, or maybe just ABS=1?
 
Yes my setup was incredibly stiff, and really quite unpleasant :lol: I tried softer suspension and a much more sensible ride height and the car was so much nicer to drive, much less bouncing mid-corner, but it just didn't produce the laptime.

I must agree with what Zkippe is saying, the little tricks like ride height/dirty oil are very discouraging. I just wanted to try everything with regards to the car to gauge if I was still as competitive in GT5 time trials as I was in Prologue time trials in terms of just driving.

After seeing Laps #1, #2 and #3, I too believe I am finished with the seasonal time trials until there are more stringent penalty measures.

EDIT: Yes only ABS=1 for me.

All the best
Maz
 
Carlos Fandango
Zkippe, your set-up is much closer to a real world set-up (softer suspension to achieve weight transfer and load up the relatively low grip tyres), although the only stand-out for me is the rear brake bias (I assume to achieve some yaw). Can the same not be achieved by reducing the decel side of your LSD from 15 down to 10 or 8?

I assume you both ran without aids, or maybe just ABS=1?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I drive without assists except abs=1. On other sims I've raced (GT Legends, rFactor) I run with all off and have no problems whatsoever, but in GT5 the fact that you can't set the pedal sensitivity at all makes braking without abs a nightmare. I'm using Driving Force GT and the pedals are extremely sensitive. And since I'm aiming for the best lap time and abs=1 makes me go faster --> I use abs. Plain and simple. The only time I take abs off is when I'm in an FF car and want it to turn in better. Or when I'm in an old car and want it to behave a bit more realistically.

I've also noticed that brake balance settings make only a small difference to the cars behavior unless you don't have enough power in them to lock the wheels to begin with. I think I could've used eg. 7/5 instead of 5/7 and achived similar lap times.
 
Thanks for the responses both of you - I did try the first couple of time trials but given the factors you've mentioned (and others) I've long since given up.

If it was a standard car with no mods allowed (a bit like the special events I guess - pure driving) then I'd become interested again in a heart beat.

(Ex-GPL player here as well 👍)

Edit: Maz, I assume that you are satisfied with your raw pace!!
 
OK, you got me interested - how does the ride height thing work?
 
Carlos Fandango
Thanks for the responses both of you - I did try the first couple of time trials but given the factors you've mentioned (and others) I've long since given up.

If it was a standard car with no mods allowed (a bit like the special events I guess - pure driving) then I'd become interested again in a heart beat.

(Ex-GPL player here as well 👍)

Edit: Maz, I assume that you are satisfied with your raw pace!!
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Initially and throughout the first 2 months of GT5 I was actually a bit panicked because I had appeared to really lose pace between prologue and GT5. Running this time trial and the Deep Forest one before it helped me to see when I really got down to it I could still produce a decent lap.

If you're looking for a proper time trial series with restrictions and checks on cleanliness/equality I urge you to check out the official GTP WRS (weekly race series) here:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=117

The qualifier is currently closed while we review submissions etc, but it'll open again soon and the first week of competition starts Sunday :) Now I've got my pace where I want it and trust it again, I'll be running the qualifier as soon as the registry re-opens. It would be great to see you there as well Zkippe 👍

All the best
Maz
 
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Thanks Maz - doubt I'm fast enough but it would be worth a go. I'd assumed that it was online races at a given time and I just can't dedicate myself to that (wife, two kids, work 60hrs/wk) but if it's an optional time trial type series then I'd be very interested, mainly to improve my GT5 skills and concentrating on eeking out those extra 10ths!

Will keep an eye out for the qualifiers re-opening.

Any idea what the time spread was for the previous qualifier (https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=153734) - I've golded them (which I assume is a given for every qualifier), but it would be interesting to know whether I'm going to be wasting my time or not!!
 
Carlos Fandango
Thanks Maz - doubt I'm fast enough but it would be worth a go. I'd assumed that it was online races at a given time and I just can't dedicate myself to that (wife, two kids, work 60hrs/wk) but if it's an optional time trial type series then I'd be very interested, mainly to improve my GT5 skills and concentrating on eeking out those extra 10ths!
Click to expand...

That's exactly what it is, optional weekly time trial series for the moment, and once you are registered there will be race events organised alongside and in addition to the standard WRS. 👍

Carlos Fandango
Will keep an eye out for the qualifiers re-opening.
Click to expand...

I'll be making a post to the frontpage news blog as soon as the qualifier is live again so you won't be able to miss it :)

Carlos Fandango
Any idea what the time spread was for the previous qualifier (https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=153734) - I've golded them (which I assume is a given for every qualifier), but it would be interesting to know whether I'm going to be wasting my time or not!!
Click to expand...

As we are going to be using the same qualifier for the forseeable future, I'm afraid we can't reveal any information regarding exact time spread or the cutoffs for particular divisions relative to the gold times. Having said that, it's expected that with the quali being over 2 Ring sectors there is a significant spread and there are divisions for absolutely all skill levels, you will always find similarly skilled drivers to compete against 👍

Bringing it somewhat back on topic, there will also be WRS events requiring tuning so information within this thread may be very useful. It's pretty obvious when people have used the high front low rear setup as it's clearly visible in replays. Same goes for the dirty oil tuning technique.

All the best
Maz
 
Thanks Maz - of course I forgot that I'd read that the times were not for discussion, but I guess as long as I submit something, I'll be at the bottom of Div4 if nothing else...
 
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