Tip to Correct Understeer - Toe and Racing Suspension

Discussion in 'GT5 Tuning' started by junpeix555, Dec 18, 2010.

  1. junpeix555

    junpeix555

    Messages:
    57
    Hey everyone, someone might have posted this already, but I just noticed today that in the toe setting in GT5, a + means toe in and - is toe out. I guess with my habits from GT4, I just assumed that + was toe out and the fact that the racing suspension automatically puts a +.2 toe in GT5.

    There were some cars I had (C63, Gallardo, 300zx) that understeered like crazy....even using all the extreme suspension setting to counter understeer. That's when I took the time to actually look at the diagram and noticed - number is toe out in GT5. So what I thought was toe out this whole time was actually toe in, which would explain the horrid understeer I was getting :crazy:

    I feel dumb but that might help some of you experiencing understeer.

    So when you get racing suspension, always set to toe to 0 first and take it for a test.

    From what I notice in GT5, toe makes a huge difference. I went from +.20 to -.17 on my Gallardo and it made the car handle like a MR should. EDIT: I went back and used a neutral toe (0) for this car which works best.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2010
  2. Hermanvongerman

    Hermanvongerman

    Messages:
    315
    Location:
    Australia
    "From what I notice in GT5, toe makes a huge difference. I went from +.20 to -.17 on my Gallardo and it made the car handle like a MR should."

    is that on the rear? front?

    can you post up your tune so we can give it a go?

    thanks man
     
  3. junpeix555

    junpeix555

    Messages:
    57
    Rear toe. Imo, rear toe seems to effect exit where as front toe effect turn in response.

    I'm in the middle of a endurance race so I can't look up the exact tune for the Gallardo, but from the top of my head:

    Ride Height -10 front -7 rear
    Springs - 7 something in front and 9 in rear
    Shocks Extension - 6 front and rear
    Shock Compression - 3-4 front 5 rear
    Sways - 3 Front and Rear

    Camber - 3.7 front 2.2 rear
    Toe - Front -.05 Rear -.17

    Brake - 6 Front 4 Rear (I think this is what I was running)

    Tranny - whatever you need

    AWD - 22 Front 78 Rear (I think)

    Aero -I think it was something like 16

    Another thing is that may Lambo has about 600hp, no NA tune or Turbo and on racing tires medium.

    Also, I left the LSD standard as I feel like customs LSD makes under worse in this car. No aids except ABS at 1.

    Again, this tune is just my driving style. I rather have the car a little loose and neutral oppose to stiff and heavy under on exit. If you are not careful, you will spin the car on exit if you are heavy footed.

    EDIT: Here is the exact setting I'm running FYI - I only tested this for 2 laps and I'm not a tuner, posted per request. However I did notice this eliminates under and gives a more neutral setting.

    Ride F -12 R -9
    Spring Rate F 11.5 R 14.9
    Ext F 6 R 8
    Com F 4 R 5
    Sways F 3 R 3
    Camber F3.4 R 2.1
    Toe F -.08 R -.19

    Brake F 4 R 2
    AWD F20 R 80
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2010
  4. BlueShift

    BlueShift

    Messages:
    757
    Location:
    France
    You have other solution to eliminate oversteer without using toe.

    <-- invert that (becomes -7/-10 and 4/6)

    4 or 5 in front.
     
  5. junpeix555

    junpeix555

    Messages:
    57
    This tune is to eliminate under, not over. I never had a problem with over on this car.
     
  6. BlueShift

    BlueShift

    Messages:
    757
    Location:
    France
    oops :)
     
  7. oppositelock

    oppositelock

    Messages:
    864
    Location:
    United States
    Anytime I've tried toe-out on the rear of a car it turns into a nervous, darty mess. Maybe this is because I use a controller and prefer more stability. I think there's a pretty good reason it's almost never used in real life. To me it seems like a duct tape solution for a bad tune. For example, if your Gallardo is understeering why are your swaybars 3 and 3? That would be the first thing I'd change.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2010
  8. niigma

    niigma

    Messages:
    64
    I agree completely. Toe should be the last thing touched, and only if it's absolutely necessary. Properly setup suspension,dampers and roll bars to me is always better than when its not setup correctly and someone uses toe as a quick fix.

    There are exceptions however, we dont have to get into that though.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2010
  9. Mr. CoolFiat

    Mr. CoolFiat (Banned)

    Messages:
    1,027
    Hey junpeix555: have you bought the CE GT5? If so, then read the APEX book... it will help you!
     
  10. junpeix555

    junpeix555

    Messages:
    57
    I use the wheel so that could explain some things.

    As for the toe out on rear, honestly I didn't even try a neutral 0 setting on this car. I was running a + toe that the racing suspension defaults on. So when I realized that was toe in, I just did the exact opposite since I was trying to get rid of under.

    You probably right that sway could eliminate under with a 0 toe setting in the rear. I just haven't just tried to fine tune the car to that point yet.
     
  11. junpeix555

    junpeix555

    Messages:
    57
    No, I do not have the CE. Looks like a book that about tuning and driving? I'm sure it would be a good read but and every little bit helps, but I do have some knowledge to tuning in real life and GT.
     
  12. RSection8

    RSection8

    Messages:
    108
    So where do most tuners start from? I was reading the tuning guide and it also said roll bars and toe are fine tuning adjustments and shouldn't be messed with till the end.
     
  13. niigma

    niigma

    Messages:
    64
    Where tuners start from and how they tune will always vary. For me personally I start with the ride height and spring rates, followed by the dampers. Depending on how stiff or soft I set the suspension as a whole I adjust my roll bars accordingly. From there I adjust my camber, and make changes to the suspension as needed.

    Following this I will adjust the LSD, and brakes. Then once again go back and re-tune if needed.

    Also just to put it out there I tune all my cars on either sport hard, or racing hard depending on what it is.