tire choice

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chameleon2

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Hi,

As we all know the choice of tires makes or breaks the setup of a car, but I'm a bit confused with the tire choice.
For the thread I will use as example the Mine's Nissan Skyline R34
As for the corner to better highlight my problem I´ll use the last part of the Fuchsrohre, when you go from downhill to uphill in a high speed left corner, putting a lot of stress on your right rear tire.

db_Fuchsrohre7.jpg


If I put N3 tires under the car I have trouble in the uphill corner going flat out and keepking the body stable. One small steering mistake means you can't line up with a stable body going straight just before hitting the brakes. Sometimes I'll manage but the risc factor is just too high with such irresponsible driving. Taking the corner without a little braking on the last part of the downhill is ineviteble.

N3 Lap time: 7.21.132

Now if I put S1 tires under the car I seem to have a lot, lot more stability, but I wonder, is this realistic for this car? In real life the Mine's Skyline R34 wears Potenza RE540S 255/35R18. Could such a performance tire be about the same as a S1 tire? Or more like medium or soft sports tire? Or is it more like a normal road tire? As you can see I got confused on what is more realistic.

S1 Lap time: 7.09.140
 
R3, best of all.... 50% grip - 50% endurance.
 
DJ-CiviC
R3, best of all.... 50% grip - 50% endurance.
Click to expand...

Yes but chameleon asked


chameleon
As you can see I got confused on what is more realistic.
Click to expand...


So while, R3 are a good choice for you it does not answer his question, daan's advice to look at thge linked thread should help.

Regards

Scaff
 
What helped me understand tires was going to Mazda's zoomzoom event https://www.zoomzoomlive.com/. N-tires were best represented when driving the sedans, such as the Mazda 6. Not sure of the exact tire, but I'm sure it's something similar to Honda Accords with their Michelin MXV4's. Anyway, when I drove the crap out of that 6 :dopey: and drove over the tire's limits there was a very audible sqeal and a very noticable loss of grip.

But the feature car, the new 2006 Miata MX-5, was fitted with Yokohama AVS ES100 tires (not on showroom car). This tire has received much praise on Tirerack.com from "spirited" drivers and autocrossers. When I drove the crap out of this car (with a nice six speed :drool: ) and drove over the tire's limits, the tires scuffed (a quiet squeal) and did not lose grip as noticeably as the Mazda 6's tires.

I believe N tires were designed with practicality first, meaning factors such as NORMAL DRIVING tread life, highway noise, and mud or sand capabilities, were considered over performance. If you look, people on tirerack.com sometimes complain about highway noise on their ES100's. If I remember right, N3 tires squealed much louder than S1's when pushed too hard.

But if you want to get REALLY technical about tires then you should read reviews of the Toyo RA-1, which is the spec tire for many NASA and SCCA club races. This is a DOT tire, which means it's sooooo performance oriented its barely street legal. The RA-1 is considered to give good tread wear for a dedicated track tire and much better grip than the ES100 WHEN ITS FULLY WARMED! When the RA-1 is cold many reviewers say it has LESS grip than a cold ES100.

Okay I think I've confused myself :dunce:
 
oh. As I tryed the tires on different cars I would say that the S1-S2 are definitly the most realistic. I could be wrong, but hey, its my opinion ;)
 
chameleon
Hi,

As we all know the choice of tires makes or breaks the setup of a car, but I'm a bit confused with the tire choice.
For the thread I will use as example the Mine's Nissan Skyline R34
As for the corner to better highlight my problem I´ll use the last part of the Fuchsrohre, when you go from downhill to uphill in a high speed left corner, putting a lot of stress on your right rear tire.

db_Fuchsrohre7.jpg


If I put N3 tires under the car I have trouble in the uphill corner going flat out and keepking the body stable. One small steering mistake means you can't line up with a stable body going straight just before hitting the brakes. Sometimes I'll manage but the risc factor is just too high with such irresponsible driving. Taking the corner without a little braking on the last part of the downhill is ineviteble.

N3 Lap time: 7.21.132

Now if I put S1 tires under the car I seem to have a lot, lot more stability, but I wonder, is this realistic for this car? In real life the Mine's Skyline R34 wears Potenza RE540S 255/35R18. Could such a performance tire be about the same as a S1 tire? Or more like medium or soft sports tire? Or is it more like a normal road tire? As you can see I got confused on what is more realistic.

S1 Lap time: 7.09.140
Click to expand...


The S1 tire would be the equivalent to a super-grippy Formula 1 slick, if not grippier. 7'09", lack-of-the-fear-factor or not, is way too fast for that Skyline. The Radical SR3 1500 Turbo (350bhp, 500kg racecar) and BMW M3 GTR Schnitzer (the 24-hour racecar) both do a 7'12" on the 20.8km version of the track.

The N tires are the only remotely-realistic ones.
 
Current lap record for fully street legal cars (including tyres) is 7.15.63, held by a modified Porsche 996 GT2 with 612 PS. I agree about GT4's S tyres not being too realistic, but wouldn't rule out a 590hp Skyline doing a sub 7:30 on cup tyres.
 
Wolfe2x7
The S1 tire would be the equivalent to a super-grippy Formula 1 slick, if not grippier. 7'09", lack-of-the-fear-factor or not, is way too fast for that Skyline. The Radical SR3 1500 Turbo (350bhp, 500kg racecar) and BMW M3 GTR Schnitzer (the 24-hour racecar) both do a 7'12" on the 20.8km version of the track.

The N tires are the only remotely-realistic ones.
Click to expand...

Quite agree, the N rated tyres do seem to me to be the most closely matched (in general) to true road legal tyres. They have the closest 'feel' and handling characteristics to most road legal tyres.

The S rated tyres are the games equivilent to DOT tyres in terms of overall feel and handling characteristics, but seem to have too much grip.

Just my thoughts after a lot of testing recently on Sim/Control/N tyres and the Sports/S tyres in GT2/3/4 recently.

Regards

Scaff
 
Wolfe2x7
The S1 tire would be the equivalent to a super-grippy Formula 1 slick, if not grippier. 7'09", lack-of-the-fear-factor or not, is way too fast for that Skyline. The Radical SR3 1500 Turbo (350bhp, 500kg racecar) and BMW M3 GTR Schnitzer (the 24-hour racecar) both do a 7'12" on the 20.8km version of the track.

The N tires are the only remotely-realistic ones.
Click to expand...

We're still at loggerheads as to whether it's the grip or the track that's at fault, though... :lol:

But then again, I've seen about 1.5g (200ft skidpad here) on some cars with S-tires... though others are still under 1g. Likely a case of statistical improvement (AGAIN) for the upgrade instead of an absolute grip improvement... in other words, all cars get an X% improvement in grip instead of an X-lateral g improvement, which would be okay for street cars modelled on street tires but would start to be problematic for street-racers modelled on street tires... where the higher initial grip multiplied by the X-Factor would come out unrealistically high.
 
One problem in relating the games tires to real life tires is that we only sense the loss of grip visually in the game. In real life we have the G forces and the feel of the car to help make a judgement. In GT we probably can push the cars limits harder as we do not experience the buildup of the G forces.
 
I suspect that the tire match between game and real life depends on the car.

When I compare taking a mid-speed tight turn with my real-life car with the one in the game it feels more like S3 or R1. That might be a more accurate match for "sport cars" as opposed to traditional "family sedans"... or maybe I just got lucky. :)

On the other hand, I have no idea about how it would correspond when taking a 100MPH turn... I'm not crazy enough to try that in real life. :crazy:
 
I have taken turns (on clear roads and in the dry, mind you) between 80-100 mph in my real-life car and have noted that the grip level and understeer is a match for "my car" in-game on N3s.

Of course, the one time I actually get looped (I'm a tee-totaler, usually, but it was my bachelor's...), I also found out where the break-away point for the tires was, and it was just about the same as in game.

Of course, having a manual, my car is much faster than its in-game equivalent... thank God.
 
Um... that's the falken skyline not the mines.
unless you did it on purpose, then I don't know what.
 
Yes I know I looked for an image with fuchsrohre, and there happened to be a falken skyline on it. Too bad but I meant the Mine's Skyline.

Thanks for all the comments I now got it cleared up. All my road cars will only use N tires from now on. Too bad PD did a bad job on simulating DOT tires and slicks, hope this is fixed for the next series.

After comparing the lap times, 7.09 is a bit too fast for a skyline with almost 600 hp. 7.21 is more real, cause the car is extremely fast and I guess I took a little bit more risc as you would do in real life. I think if it were to be driven by gan-san for example, it would be close to 7.30.
 
So which GT4 tire most accurately represents the Toyo RA-1?
 
Wolfe2x7 you don't seem to make any sense. First you say this about S1 tires:

The S1 tire would be the equivalent to a super-grippy Formula 1 slick, if not grippier. 7'09", lack-of-the-fear-factor or not, is way too fast for that Skyline. The Radical SR3 1500 Turbo (350bhp, 500kg racecar) and BMW M3 GTR Schnitzer (the 24-hour racecar) both do a 7'12" on the 20.8km version of the track.

The N tires are the only remotely-realistic ones.

Then in the last post you say:

So which GT4 tire most accurately represents the Toyo RA-1?

N3. Maybe S1.

------------------
As far as I know RA-1 tires are a class lower than the Potenza RE050 or the Potenza RE050A and offer less grip. These are I believe about the stickiest street legal tires?
These are listed as N3 tires, and makes sense. But how can RA-1 tires be N3 or S1? I much more think they could be catagorized as N2 tires.
 
chameleon
Wolfe2x7 you don't seem to make any sense. First you say this about S1 tires:

The S1 tire would be the equivalent to a super-grippy Formula 1 slick, if not grippier. 7'09", lack-of-the-fear-factor or not, is way too fast for that Skyline. The Radical SR3 1500 Turbo (350bhp, 500kg racecar) and BMW M3 GTR Schnitzer (the 24-hour racecar) both do a 7'12" on the 20.8km version of the track.

The N tires are the only remotely-realistic ones.

Then in the last post you say:

So which GT4 tire most accurately represents the Toyo RA-1?

N3. Maybe S1.

------------------
As far as I know RA-1 tires are a class lower than the Potenza RE050 or the Potenza RE050A and offer less grip. These are I believe about the stickiest street legal tires?
These are listed as N3 tires, and makes sense. But how can RA-1 tires be N3 or S1? I much more think they could be catagorized as N2 tires.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I can see why I wouldn't make any sense in this thread. :lol: Oops. In another thread, Kent had brought up the fact that the picture of an S tire (in the tuning shops) looks like a track tire, and that rather than being sporty street tires, S tires seem more like all-out track tires (without going into the realm of slicks). That, along with a long, extended discussion with Scaff in yet another thread, has led me to believe that GT4's physics flaws have less to do with the tires than they do with the physics themselves. I have also gone back to my belief that GT4's 'Ring is too small, leading to faster laptimes than should be possible.

So my opinion has changed since I last posted here. :p

Anyway, I don't know much about the RA-1's other than the fact that they are competition tires, so I suspected that the RA-1's are somewhere around N3's. Maybe S1's, or as you suggested, N2's.
 
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